Disguise Self + Alter Self - But how to change the voice, too?

[Torek]

After lurking a bit I decided to post a question, that puzzles me for some time now.

I play a Lvl 5 Sorceror specialized in bluffing and disguising. He has the Alter Self spell on his list. I am impersonating other humanoids from time to time but I always have the restraint, that my disguise is imperfect as long as my voice gives me away.

Are there any spells that change the voice?
Or how do you handle this aspect of an impersonation?

[Zincorium]

Well, since the actual pitch and tone of someone's voice are physical attributes, it would be allowable to change them via alter self, but it would be very, very difficult to get it right, since you can't figure out how someone's vocal chords are shaped without careful study and a very, very good knowledge of anatomy.

Really, replicating someone's voice would seem to have been rolled into the disguise skill, which already gets a +10 bonus from alter self, and there are no systems for discerning a disguised person based on voice, only spot. Perhaps this was just an oversight, but I generally suggest not making the game more complicated than it is just to model some aspect of reality. Once you've decided to do that, most of the game requires altering for the same reason.

[The Prince of Cats]

How about the Sculpt Sound spell? It is a bard spell, but any good adventuring party is bound to include a helpful bard who could alter your voice for a few hours...

[Shiny, Bearer of the Pokystick]

I believe the revised Kenku, from MM...two? Maybe three; have a mimicry ability.

But as for your particular character....not sure. I think the usual practice is a bluff check to attempt to impersonate a voice.

[JackMage666]

Well, if the character isn't already finished, you could be a Silverbrow Human (from Dragon Magic). They get the bonus feat of a human, but isntead of the extra skill points, they get +2 Disguise checks and diguise is always a class skill. Fill ranks in Diguise, and you'll be OK.

Magically, I'm not sure. But a high disguise check should have you covered.

[Telonius]

Magically ... Major Image? Possibly Ghost Sound? Sculpt Sound sounds like a pretty sure candidate.

[Jannex]

I'd just include it in Alter Self. If you've got an adequate knowledge of anatomy to create functioning gills, then you've got an adequate knowledge of anatomy to tweak your larynx enough to disguise your voice. It's magic. A wizard did it. (Or a sorcerer, in this case.)

[asqwasqw]

Ghost sounds work for me.

[Innis Cabal]

polymorph should work

[NullAshton]

I believe duplicating voices would be a disguise check. Alter self would help, in that it would change your voice AND appearance, but not perfectly which is why it's just a +10 to disguise checks.

[JellyPooga]

Ghost Sound can't produce speech I believe (unless you houserule it).

I'd have to go with others who say Bluff or Disguise.

[Devils_Advocate]

I agree with Jannex. You don't need to have any understanding of the bone structures that allow wings to function to grow wings that work. Why would you need to even know that "vocal chords" exist -- much less fine details of how they're structured -- in order to change your voice? The spell takes care of that sort of stuff for you. (Shapechanging magic is generally pretty intelligent, actually.) I'd say that voice is one of the minor/significant physical qualities that alter self allows you to freely designate.

As far as how effectively you can impersonate someone's voice, magically or not, it seems simple enough to use the Disguise skill opposed by Listen instead of Spot.

[Torek]

Really, replicating someone's voice would seem to have been rolled into the disguise skill, which already gets a +10 bonus from alter self, and there are no systems for discerning a disguised person based on voice, only spot. Perhaps this was just an oversight, but I generally suggest not making the game more complicated than it is just to model some aspect of reality.

Thanks all for the answers and I think Zincorium solved it perfectly for me!

[Ranis]

Surprised these haven't been mentioned, how about Ventriloquism, if it's on the Sorc spell list?

Also, Magic Mouth.

[Green Bean]

Ghost Sound can't produce speech I believe (unless you houserule it).

I'd have to go with others who say Bluff or Disguise.

Ghost sound allows you to create a volume of sound that rises, recedes, approaches, or remains at a fixed place. You choose what type of sound ghost sound creates when casting it and cannot thereafter change the sound’s basic character.

The volume of sound created depends on your level. You can produce as much noise as four normal humans per caster level (maximum twenty humans). Thus, talking, singing, shouting, walking, marching, or running sounds can be created. The noise a ghost sound spell produces can be virtually any type of sound within the volume limit. A horde of rats running and squeaking is about the same volume as eight humans running and shouting. A roaring lion is equal to the noise from sixteen humans, while a roaring dire tiger is equal to the noise from twenty humans.

It says you can create talking sounds, but it would pretty much be a prerecorded message.

[Silkenfist]

Theoretically, Alter Self should also alter the voice since it is essentially dependent on palate, tongue and vocal cords of the speaker. At least the pitch should be right automatically but emphases and speech habits could prove a problem. I'd heighten the Bluff DC if the victim knows the speaker well enough to realize the uncommon speech but other than that, there should be no problem.

edit: Ah, Zincorium had already said it. Well, I have no problems with the fact that you don't know the persons exact palatine configuration. You don't know the exact physical functionalty of the human body and you are still able to reshape limbs and organs at will. Transposing vocal cords to a certain setting should work, too. It might not be perfect, but good enough to explain it with a cold or overtone it with a certain emphasis.

[Matthew]

Bluff is definitely the Skill I would consider to be used to disguise a Character's voice.

[manda_babylon]

If you're talking about disguising yourself with clothes, makeup, etc., then it seems like voice would have to be regulated through a separate roll. For example, in D20 Past, I have my players make a perform check after they make a disguise check to see if they can imitate the person's voice and manner as opposed to just cosmetically.

Our charismatic hero is an actress, and I've allowed her to perform the disguise check on others, but only they can roll their perform checks. In our last session, she disguised another PC as an NPC in order to infiltrate a building with a natural 20. However, he only rolled an 11 to imitate the character, and the NPC's boss saw through the disguise.

However, if you're talking about magic, then magic can cover whatever it wants to and cover both, like how magic missile doesn't just generate the fire, it also gives it a velocity. And, as it has already been said, since you're even really going a step further than "disguise" and actually altering yourself into them, shouldn't you have their voicebox, too? So you sound like them, it's just a matter of imitating their manner, which can be handled by a bluff check.

[Dhavaer]

Surprised these haven't been mentioned, how about Ventriloquism, if it's on the Sorc spell list?

Ventriloquism is comletely different from changing the sound of your voice. It makes your voice come from somewhere other than your mouth.

[psychoticbarber]

I'd heighten the Bluff DC if the victim knows the speaker well enough to realize the uncommon speech but other than that, there should be no problem.

I'd also add a possible retest for such brilliant evasions as "I, uh, have a cold. Yeah."

[Amphimir Míriel]

polymorph should work

Yeah, but that's like saying that radioactive polonium is a good rat-poison.

[Jack Mann]

If you're talking about disguising yourself with clothes, makeup, etc., then it seems like voice would have to be regulated through a separate roll. For example, in D20 Past, I have my players make a perform check after they make a disguise check to see if they can imitate the person's voice and manner as opposed to just cosmetically.

Our charismatic hero is an actress, and I've allowed her to perform the disguise check on others, but only they can roll their perform checks. In our last session, she disguised another PC as an NPC in order to infiltrate a building with a natural 20. However, he only rolled an 11 to imitate the character, and the NPC's boss saw through the disguise.

However, if you're talking about magic, then magic can cover whatever it wants to and cover both, like how magic missile doesn't just generate the fire, it also gives it a velocity. And, as it has already been said, since you're even really going a step further than "disguise" and actually altering yourself into them, shouldn't you have their voicebox, too? So you sound like them, it's just a matter of imitating their manner, which can be handled by a bluff check.

Perhaps it works differently in D20 Modern, but in D&D, Disguise includes how a person acts. For example, seeming to be a traveler, even though you're a local, is a disguise check.

[manda_babylon]

Perhaps it works differently in D20 Modern, but in D&D, Disguise includes how a person acts. For example, seeming to be a traveler, even though you're a local, is a disguise check.

But can players disguise other players? When he had to roll to imitate the character, he had been disguised as him by a make-up artist. The disguise she provided was physical, but she can't cover his voice, only his looks, so that fell to him, and he didn't quite make it.

Can spells be used to change other players? Would you be able to disguise your whole party as the enemy and sneak into their base [to kill their dudes]?

[Fax Celestis]

Use glibness. "No, I've always sounded like this."

[Citizen Joe]

Disguise Self wouldn't help, but Alter Self would let you sound like a typical member of the species (assuming you know the language). If you're trying to mimic a specific voice that becomes more tricky. I'd call that a bluff check, with situational modifiers. Or better yet, Perform: Acting.

[the_tick_rules]

i think the voice is included in the spell, or it's just one of D&D gaps in reality we all have to live with.