Supplements that Really Supplement

[Shiny, Bearer of the Pokystick]

Of late I've been considering purchasing a few new sourcebooks; and by 'purchasing' I mean 'inducing other people to purchase for me by means of my upcoming birthday'. I've got a case of klepto-eyeballs; my ocular orbs roam across the gaming shop's shelves..hungrily. I fear I can hardly hold them back much longer.

I'm posting this to Gaming since I've got some pretty involved reasoning going...and because some of the folks over in friendly banter don't play the game.

My question to you all is twofold: first, of the options I'm about to present, which is the strongest and most beneficial to me, based on the conditions I'm presenting?
And second and more generally- what are your opinions about the vast glut of published material produced just by wizards, discounting for the nonce the vast number of third-party resources? Would you like to see more environment supplements? More campaign-specific material? More 'whole new system' works? Why?

Anyways, moving on to options.
First, the things I won't be asking for/buying; no Ebberon (I've got the setting, it's more than enough), no Forgotten Realms (Same), no Greyhawk, no anything campaign-specific. No second edition, and no first, and in fact, if I can avoid it at all, no 3.0; updated and errata-fixed 3.5 only. No Tome of Battle, sorry folks. I'd prefer to avoid thin books; if I'm going to spend 1/5th of my paycheck (or somebody else's paycheck) on a book, I expect it to be as full of content as a belfry is of bats.

Anyways, the things I'm considering:

Completion Fetish: Having already gotten my filthy hands on the lovable Arcane, Warrior, and the admittedly rather less appealing Psionic, I have conceived a strong desire to complete the set. My first priority in this line is Complete Divine and Complete Adventurer, the last of the 'classic' Complete Series, covering the core character stuff. Adventurer has a great deal of interesting gear, a goodly selection of feats, and at least one new class (the scout) that intrigues- I don't know much beyond that, but that's enough. Divine, on the other hand, covers a concept that I'm much more deeply invested in (despite always playing rogues), and has a number of truly interesting prestige classes, along with a new base class, the favored soul, that I'm interested in integrating into my campaign. Further complicating things are Complete Mage and Complete Scoundrel; the latter includes a lot of things I want to use for villains (a prime concern as a DM) and a lot of interesting equipage, and the former has received a lot of press for its reserve feats, and contains new content for the Assassin, always a favorite of mine.

Dark Lions, Tigers, and Owlbears Oh My: As much as I may lament my laughable skills as a monster creator, I get a great deal of use out of my books of monsters; my Fiend Folio inspired a number of my home-brewed races. I'm primarily interested in the MM II, MM III, etc., as, firstly, a possible source of same, and secondarily, a possible source of things to kill players with, ideally lovecraftian horrors from beyond purple prose, etc. ad infinitum.

Where in The World is DM Sandiego: Most of these appeal to me, but for varying reasons; Dungeonscape (don't know if it counts as an environment, but ah well) has the Beast Heart adept and some intriguing kits and variant classes; Sandstorm and Stormwrack and Frostburn all apply to at least one major geographic region of my home-brewed setting, and I've always liked the idea of environment-based PrCs (of which, I'm assured, there are many)- I also would love to get my hands on some of the variant rules in there, to help me build tactically interesting encounters with some unexpected threats.

A Wizard Didn't do it, but a Meldshaper Did: I'll lay it on the line here; I love alternative magic systems. I love them. A lot. My Tome of Magic is wearing out from being lovingly caressed. The first thing I'm thinking of grabbing up to this end- and it's a front-runner based on art alone, and concept- is Magic of Incarnum. I see more and more Incarnum-based content here on the boards, and I like it, the feel of it, the heft of it. I'm intrigued by what little I can gather about it, and I want to know more. You know what? I think me getting Incarnum is just about a foregone conclusion. Let's move on.
I briefly considered the Spell Compendium; however, since I don't often use the standard casting classes, I don't know just how much utility I'd get out of it. I'd likely have endless fun incorporating similar effects into a nerfed framework, though.
Libris Mortis would probably see a great deal of use (more than a few of my villains tend to make use of undead, and I can seriously dig the way some of the PrCs and such are set up. It does, however, run up against the fact that it seems to be based in the standard classes once again. However, I'm most intrigued by its selection of monster classes and templates- easy to insert and high-utility.
Tangentially magical is the Magic Item Compendium. I want to get my greasy mitts on the new rules of pricing items, and the new guidelines for creation, an enormous amount; I'd love to see the new item sets and item types, and I'd be enthused to have a lot of new gear to drool over and dole out. That said, it is just loot in the end, and my homebrewing urge has shifted away from treasure of late.

Of Utility to All: Originally I was planning to put more in the 'general utility' category, but in the end, only one book made the cut: the Player's Handbook II. Containing the much-beloved (although also much-decried) Beguiler, Duskblade and Dragon Shaman, the loverly retraining rules, alternate setups for various classes (including the by-now-essential shapechange variant) and support for many of my favorite second-tier classes, like warlocks and hexblades. All in all, a delicious gumbo of some of my favorite things- more or less a must-buy. If you can think of any reason I shouldn't, do so, otherwise, it's a shoe-in.

More Loot: The Weapons of Legacy book intrigued me at first; if anybody with more experience with it could give me some input as to the extent of its home-brew development sections (as opposed to its pre-generated legacy weapon content), I'd be interested to hear it. Not a huge possibility for purchase right now.

Grab Bag: Despite being uncategorized, some of these are very big possibilities. First, but not foremost, the Planar Handbook. It's got new races- good- new monsters, also good, and a smattering of feats. I don't do a lot of planar traveling, though, so it's low on the list.
Ghostwalk really grabs me. It's got a neat concept, and what looks to be some interesting execution. The only reason I'm not snapping it up is what looks like it's got a hefty chunk of pre-made content, which is a turn-off, and I'm not sure what edition it is. Input appreciated here.
Heroes of Horror is also on my list, mostly for the sake of the archivist; anyone who knows more about, please tell me.

Okay, so; what should I buy, people? And there's another question way up top there, if you can remember what it was at this point.

[Ranis]

Uh, I think ya copied the same thing twice there, pal. :D

I just wanted to point out that if you want a book that will be a fantastic use to you as both a PC and a DM, grab Dungeonscape. Definitely a great choice there.

And, with the Complete series, don't forget the newest book, Complete Champion. I think it's for divine characters, if I'm not mistaken.

[SpatulaOfDoom]

I once did a serries of short reviews on a number of books.
Here are a couple I'd advise

Complete Adventurer 9/10.
A good buy. The art is amazing! This book has a wide array of stuff for all sorts of characters from fighters and barbarians to rogues and bards. Not so much for the heavy caster types. The three new base classes are all pretty good, although the Spellthief is a bit mind bending untill you read through it several times. The prestige classes wander all over the place but most are pretty interesting (in particular the daggerspell duo and the Nighsongs are interesting), many are re-writes of old 3.0 PRC's.
Feats are pretty good asside from the banal Devoted and Ascetic line, Dual strike will make TWF'ers happy.
The spells are wonderfull and finally give Rangers a reason to invest some effort in their spell choice, bards will be quite happy with their new options too. Many of the spells work hand-in-hand with skill ranks. Sorc/Wiz will find a few spells similar to Tensers Transformation but in a different direction than fighter.
Items. There is a fairly large selection of Alchemical items, most of which are suited to low levels or low magic campaigns. The weapon capsules are pretty stupid but the Tooth and mouth held capsules make sense. Magic items there aren't too many of but those that are there are good.
The pre-generated organizations are all well-thought out and ready to plunk down in your campaign, providing a fair bit of flavour.
There is also a section on creating organizations that works similarly to creating communities and is quite usefull.
Summary:The gems of the book are the Base classes, prestige classes, Spells, art, and alchemical items other than weapons capsules.
The ho-hum: The Feats, some of the presige classes, The magic items.
The let-downs:Err nothing I could really say as BAD except a few of the feats and the weapons capsules.

If you DM or like Horror themed gaming then check out Heroes of Horror

8/10. If you are a person who likes horror themed campaigns then this is most assuredly the book for you. like Heroes of Battle this is more of a book for DM's than for players but there is still plenty of stuff for players in it. The 100 creepy effects list right at the beginning is a real gem and when I started using it in a campaign it had a noticeable effect, it also has a large section for adding a creepy or scary atmosphere to your gaming table (and I mean the players not just their characters). Of note is the help on constructing frightening villains and their motivations and outlook.
The biggest thing that this book brings is the Taint system, which helps to track the physical and mental effects of being in the presence of or doing acts of or being acted on by great evil. The taint system threads its way through most of the mechanics in the game from feats and spells to the base and prestige classes, and I really like it from both a role playing and mechanics standpoint. I honestly think that it's a little too easy to rid yourself of taint with spells but oh well.
There are two base classes and a half dozen prestige classes. The Dread Necromancer is the base class everyone's been looking for, and step over Cleric there's a new Un-dead master in town. Vaguely like a warmage the Dread Necromancer knows all spells on his spell list but casts them spontaneously, not surprisingly that spell list is a little bit limited compared to most and mostly deals with Necromancy and negative energy spells. The dread Necromancer also gets a whole host of special abilities cumulating in becoming a LICH. All in all my impression is the Dread Necromancer is a little overpowered.
The other Base class is pretty good (think a Cleric/Lore Master with a slightly sinister bent) But the Prestige classes are kind of ho hum but not really bad (The Fiend-Blooded is interesting like a Fiendish version of the Dragon Disciple)
The feats mostly deal with Taint and self mutilation which is a downer in my book but the Dream feats and the Spirit sense feats are pretty cool and could give your character a nice touch of flavour.
The spells list is limited but decent, no real comment here.
The monsters are great. Being a horror book you might think that they'll be the ichor spewing blood and guts types but except for one or two they aren't, they're closer to a psychological horror for the most part.

Two skeletal thumbs up: The Taint system, its effects and rules. The advice on how to add a little eeriness and fear to your campaign. The monsters.
One thumb up: The Base classes and Prestige classes, the spells. The feats are somewhat less than inspiring for the most part.
Oh god where are my thumbs?!?: The art is somewhat lacking compared to many recent books.

Other books I might suggest include. PHB 2 (Player options galore) Spell Compendium (Spells? Yea we got spells.) and the Book of 9 swords (What the fighter should have been, depending on which school you pick you can stay well within the bounds of possibility or dive headlong into supernatural abilities beyond the ken or mortal man, and they martch side by side with no problem).

I'm actually considering re-posting here my previous reviews and continuing them on this messageboard.

[Shiny, Bearer of the Pokystick]

Uh, I think ya copied the same thing twice there, pal. :D

I just wanted to point out that if you want a book that will be a fantastic use to you as both a PC and a DM, grab Dungeonscape. Definitely a great choice there.

And, with the Complete series, don't forget the newest book, Complete Champion. I think it's for divine characters, if I'm not mistaken.

Aw, Boop.
I always Ctrl+A/Ctrl+C just in case I accidentally close a tab before I'm finished; must have sneaked a paste in there somehow.

Anyways; sounds good, but what exactly in it makes it so useful? I haven't been able to actually read it beyond the WoTC excerpts, so lay it on me.

Complete Champion raises an almighty meh, since I have zero interest in any of the things it epitomizes. In the grand tradition of the Console RPG, any gods that are actually real are out to destroy the world, exception: nature spirits. So boo to that.

Spatula, thanks for the tips; that definitely upped Heroes of Horror a bit, since I dug Ravenloft of old and definitely am into the horror up to my neck.

Also: Book of Nine Swords = Tome of Battle. Not buying it. x_x;

[The_Snark]

Dark Lions, Tigers, and Owlbears Oh My: As much as I may lament my laughable skills as a monster creator, I get a great deal of use out of my books of monsters; my Fiend Folio inspired a number of my home-brewed races. I'm primarily interested in the MM II, MM III, etc., as, firstly, a possible source of same, and secondarily, a possible source of things to kill players with, ideally lovecraftian horrors from beyond purple prose, etc. ad infinitum.

If you don't have it already, and really meant it about the lovecraftian horrors, Lords of Madness is an interesting book for that sort of thing. It provides lots of fun flavor for aboleths and mind flayers, along with a few other abberations, and has a selection of new monsters to go along with it—more beholderkin, elder brains, the elder eidolon if you want a golem made of the stuff of madness, and the half-farspawn template, most notably.

Complete Adventurer and Complete Divine are probably on par with one another if you like both types of characters. The favored soul and the scout are both great classes, the spirit shaman and ninja are at least useable, and the shujenga and spellthief... not really useable. The PrCs are often very specific in concept for both of them. Complete Adventurer has way more useable feats and such than Complete Divine (except in the area of spells; the druid especially gets some nice ones).

The Player's Handbook II is well worth it. Planar Handbook, I reccomend against; my copy is 3.0, though, and I'm not sure if they released an updated book of the same name.

[jaqueses]

The PHB 2 is definitely a solid choice. I have Incarnum and while I haven't used it much it is mostly because I still have yet to sit and pursue. I highly recommend the Magic Item Compendium for the main reason of its detailed items and large reservoir of new items. If you like martial classes then you should get the Tome of Battle but otherwise don't feel bad about skipping it. I have Scoundrel and it was worth it, with the skill tricks and trickier items. Complete Mage is good for Warlock lovers and people who like arcane. Dungeonscape is IMO needed for DMs and PCs alike. Can't advise on the MMs or Heroes of Horror, even though I've had that for a year. I you like undead grab up Libiris Mortis because it has many non-cheese uses for DMs and PCs.


More in-depth for Dungeonscape. Optional features for the core classes including Paladin, Fighter, and Cleric goodies. Also a new base class to replace the bard with if one chooses. Equipment advice for those unfamiliar with dungeon encounters and new templates for Dms to put on creatures. Also a great PrC for the Big Bad lord of the dungeon. Nice little chapters for dungeon designs, traps, and features.

[Shiny, Bearer of the Pokystick]

If you don't have it already, and really meant it about the lovecraftian horrors, Lords of Madness is an interesting book for that sort of thing. It provides lots of fun flavor for aboleths and mind flayers, along with a few other abberations, and has a selection of new monsters to go along with it—more beholderkin, elder brains, the elder eidolon if you want a golem made of the stuff of madness, and the half-farspawn template, most notably.

Complete Adventurer and Complete Divine are probably on par with one another if you like both types of characters. The favored soul and the scout are both great classes, the spirit shaman and ninja are at least useable, and the shujenga and spellthief... not really useable. The PrCs are often very specific in concept for both of them. Complete Adventurer has way more useable feats and such than Complete Divine (except in the area of spells; the druid especially gets some nice ones).

The Player's Handbook II is well worth it. Planar Handbook, I reccomend against; my copy is 3.0, though, and I'm not sure if they released an updated book of the same name.

I most certainly did, and you have reminded me of that juicy farspawn template. I kind of like Spellthieves from all I know of them, though they're awfully teamwork-based. Specificity isn't always good, but then again, it isn't always bad....still, Adventurer pulls ahead; who doesn't want more feats? Then again, as a DM, interesting things to add to villains is win, so Divine has a nice edge there.

Player's Handbook II is a shoe-in for the win, it would seem.

I think the 3.0 book was 'manual of the planes', while the 3.5 was 'planar handbook'. I'm not certain of that, however.

Jaq, thanks for the tips; that's another vote for Dungeonscape. As a mitigating factor, however, I do a lot of urban and open-air adventures, and very few 'dungeon' adventures, although any enclosed space is sort of 'dungeon-like'.
No Tome of Battle! Nein! The solution to melee is not to make them as be-damned abusable as casters!
I don't know if I'm a warlock lover per se, but that's a factor, that is; don't really love arcane as such either.
That's a vote for scoundrel, then.
I do like undead; giving serious consideration to Libris Mortis.

Not regretting Incarnum is a good sign. I don't think I will either. >.>;

[SpatulaOfDoom]

Having gone through both books extensively I can say that unless you are looking specifically for a book dealing with undead I'd suggest Heroes of Horror over Libris Mortis. Can't really speak on Lords of Madness, a friend has it but I don't think he's ever used it.

Don't know about Weapons of Legacy but if equipment is your thing check out Arms and Equipment, it's 3.0 but can be translated into 3.5 with very little effort and it can be picked up on the cheap.

I'd suggest against getting the Planar Handbook if all you're interested in is monsters you'd do better with the MM 2/3/4. MM2 is 3.0 and will require some re-working if you run 3.5, MM3 I own and use to some degree. Truthfully I like to create my own monsters or even use normal humanoids with class levels when doing the DM thing.

I don't have any of the environment based books but I my friend says that Stormwrack and Sandstorm are great but Frostburn is somewhat lacking.

I prefer Complete Mage over Complete Arcane, especially in terms of general balance and feats.

[Ranis]

Anyways; sounds good, but what exactly in it makes it so useful? I haven't been able to actually read it beyond the WoTC excerpts, so lay it on me.

Well, it was written by our own Rich Berlew, so it just oozes Win. Aside from that, it's just an absolutely fantastic source.

1: It has several alternative class features that would be more useful for the dungeon-crawl-esque themed campaigns, most notably the Paladin ACF is just...divine(pun intended). There's also a section for players about each of the core class's role within the dungeon itself, great to show to new players.

2: There are new items, for finding traps and disarming them to everything else in between. There's something for everyone in this list. There's also a few new Wondrous items, but nothing amazing.

3: The entire back of this book is dedicated to fleshing out dungeons to make them less arbitrary, "What is this goblin doing living in this cave with Allips?!" experience. This book helped me infinitely more than the DMG did when I made some of my more recent dungeons, which have had a serious amp in their believability from this wonderful source.

4: There's also an extensive section for traps and new ways to implement them in this book, along with some more....fun traps and psionic traps as well.


All in all, I crack Dungeonscape open more than I do the DMG these days. It's just a fantastic book and the best buy I've ever made as far as D&D books go. I do think it's smaller, but definitely worth it.

[Ranis]

MM2 is 3.0 and will require some re-working if you run 3.5.

Is it really? I never noticed that before. Hmm. Gonna have to carry the 5, drop the 7.........

[Fax Celestis]

Weapons of Legacy is a terrific book. The example arms and armor are easily malleable and insertable into just about any campaign, and they provide a plethora of premade encounters--a must for any DM on the run.

Further, there are extensive rules for creating both Legacy Items and Legacy Creatures in the back of the book, which are excellent.

(Funnily enough, a Warforged is a Legacy Item and/or a Legacy Creature, but that's another story).

Further, the rules for creation themselves are easily malleable and quite easily understood. There's a variety of options, and it's an interesting take on a new road to power. Much much better than the Scion system for weapons presented in UA.

Of course, there's also the questionable Legacy Champion class at the front that I'm surprised hasn't hit any cheese yet, considering for eight out of ten levels, it has the class feature "+1 level of existing class features", as well as d8 HD, 3/4 bab, and 4+Int skills.

It's one of my personal favorite books.

[Macrovore]

IMO, All of the environment books were awesome. Stormwrack especially (i'm currently running a firefly-esque game in eberron relying heavily on it. it RULES).


if I were you, I would rethink your stance on the Tome of Battle. It's a pretty solid book. Not that much cheese, if your players know what to avoid, and it makes for some really memorable encounters. It is, right now, worth every penny I paid for it.

[Seatbelt]

I love my tome of battle/ Not a thick book, but it's chock full of goodness and win.

[Merlin the Tuna]

That you said you don't want to buy Tome of Battle isn't going to keep me from saying it's without a doubt the best supplement I've seen. If you're worried about page counts... Tome of Magic is 288 to ToB's 160 pages, but Tome of Magic also splits its time between three different types of classes. Tome of Battle is in that respect more robust, though admittedly it's pricier on a per page basis. It's also pleasant to see a system designed with multiclassing in mind. The ease with which one can dabble in it makes it immediately useful for pretty much everyone in a party -- or even campaign, for that matter. And they're not nearly as breakable as casters.

Next up would probably be the PHB 2. The Dragon Enthusiast Cosplayer Shaman is in some ways a blemish on the book (or at least compared to the rest of the base classes), but the book has certainly got some fun options. That said, it should be mentioned that the feats tend to be very specific; most of them have quite a few prerequisites, so it's not something you'll necessarily be able to cherry pick out of frequently as a player.

Still, it's difficult to make recommendations without knowing what you're looking for. Do you DM? Do you play in a lot of different groups, online or otherwise? What kind of settings do you prefer to play/run games in?

[Macrovore]

and ditto on the PHB thing. It made high-level fighters slightly more stomachable. Weapon supremacy ftw. if anyone who plays a fighter up to 18 can say that (warblades don't count, 'cause they can't take it until 21st lvl).

[Merlin the Tuna]

Weapon supremacy ftw. if anyone who plays a fighter up to 18 can say that (warblades don't count, 'cause they can't take it until 21st lvl).

A Warblade 19 that takes a Fighter level at 20th can do it. Not that he ever would, since going Warblade 20 would allow him to use 2 stances at once, ready an additional maneuver, and trade out an old one. Plus he avoids the shame-factor of having Fighter levels.

[illathid]

Well, I just got the magic item compendium, and I like it a whole lot. There's stuff in it for everyone... literally.

[Jannex]

I readily admit that a large part of this is due to my play style, but Complete Adventurer and Complete Scoundrel are two of my favorite D&D supplements in existence. PHBII is pretty nice as well (especially as it includes Beguilers--a full-caster that I'm actually willing to play!). Complete Adventurer has some nice feats, and at least one great base class (I <3 Scouts), and Complete Scoundrel, well, skill tricks FTW.

So yeah, those're my votes.

[Shiny, Bearer of the Pokystick]

Ranis, you had me at 'Rich Burlew'.
Also hooray for dungeon ecology.

Fax, you make it sound so darn delicious.
It didn't impress me on a once-over, but...such is life. I'll take another look.

Macrovore, tell me more about this firefly-esque campaign and how Stormwrack was helpful in running it?

Macrovore, Seatbelt, and Merlin...I know Tome of Battle is great- I do- I know it's adaptable, content-rich, etc.; and I have considered it. In the end, however, it doesn't fit my conception of what martial classes should be able to do- I don't like 'blade magic'.
No amount of balance or good content is going to counteract that basic difference in intent.
If you can show me how Tome of Battle provides me with a superior set of options for a martial character without producing shiny psuedo-magical effects and making pillars pop out of the ground, dandy. If it's martial, okay. If it even smells like magic, I'm leaving it on the shelf.

Everybody who thumb-up'd the PHBII, sounds good. I'm convinced; and Merlin, specific feats can always be tweaked, ho'yes.

Jannex, you're tempting my sneakthiefy lil' heart with your words of wisdom.

In response to Merlin's question, here's the what and why I'm looking for:

• Books useful to a DM, ideally in the creation not just of settings, but of characters/antagonists.
• Books that are canted towards homebrewing and self-creation. New rules for magic item creation and pricing are valued over new magic items; new concepts for how to create a martial class are valued over new martial classes.
• To this end, variants, unusual and different rulesets or systems, are eminently welcome. New and interesting rules to surprise players are great.
• Adaptability. If I can take it, change the flavor a little, drop it in my own setting, and have it work, it is good. If it's the Ascarflanian Gaurdian of the Giant Dragonthing, that has to stay near said thing all the time, no.
• Tips on 'catgirl killers' like ecology, reasonability, and feasability are welcomed. I don't always dislike cliches, but I dislike the ones that pull the player out of the world. I want to be as 'real' as possible with my fantasy- as internally consistent as I can.

To break this down:
Homebrew-ready rules > tips and tricks for the DM > interesting new variants > new classes, races, PrCs > new feats and spells/powers/stances/whatever > pre-generated content (NpCs, Items, Locales).

[The J Pizzel]

Complete Scoundrel is great for feats and skill tricks (acrobatic backstab anyone). PHBII is obviously awesome for feats and the few new base classes. I'll probably be picking up DungeonScape today or tomorrow.

My advice on what to get next -

Magic Item Compendium. Holy crap I love this book. Loads of new magic items. Enough to actually make "body slots" real important. Tunic, third eyes, anklets, robes, runestaffs, etc.

My ultimate favorite thing about it, it actually gives you ITEM LEVELS which helps to stat out your players. I've always had a hard time deciding what level to start giving certain items to the players. Not any more. Everything has a level. Its friggin beautiful!!!

jp

[Shiny, Bearer of the Pokystick]

Complete Scoundrel is great for feats and skill tricks (acrobatic backstab anyone). PHBII is obviously awesome for feats and the few new base classes. I'll probably be picking up DungeonScape today or tomorrow.

My advice on what to get next -

Magic Item Compendium. Holy crap I love this book. Loads of new magic items. Enough to actually make "body slots" real important. Tunic, third eyes, anklets, robes, runestaffs, etc.

My ultimate favorite thing about it, it actually gives you ITEM LEVELS which helps to stat out your players. I've always had a hard time deciding what level to start giving certain items to the players. Not any more. Everything has a level. Its friggin beautiful!!!

jp

Player's Handbook II is the toast of the town, it seems- and everybody seems to like some of the same things about Complete Scoundrel (oddly enough, I was more excited about, say, Rust Cubes, and the Master of Masks PrC).

Dungeonscape apparently another popular choice.

Magic Item Compendium....sounds like a great 'convenience' book; sure, you could just apply WBL guidelines, but it's easier to compare to an existing item, and if I want to lift anything wholesale, easy peasy.

How good are the item creation rules/guidlines in Magic Item Compendium? Does it have notes on pricing? Guidelines on appropriate level for homebrewed items?

[Jannex]

Jannex, you're tempting my sneakthiefy lil' heart with your words of wisdom.

Yeah, I do that.

• To this end, variants, unusual and different rulesets or systems, are eminently welcome. New and interesting rules to surprise players are great.

Do you have Unearthed Arcana? It's pretty much all about variant rules and suchlike.

[Shiny, Bearer of the Pokystick]

Yeah, I do that.
Do you have Unearthed Arcana? It's pretty much all about variant rules and suchlike.

True enough.

And no, I don't; most of the variants I liked are already released to SRD (bloodlines, regional race variants), the things I didn't like or wouldn't use (flaws, etc.) are many, and the things I really loved (sanity) aren't worth buying the book for. Filching from the unwary, yes, buying, no.

I should be more specific; when I say variants, I mean "Here's a way to shift the game balance of this class" or "here's a way to give it a new role in the party", more than I mean "here's a new set of rules for something completely different".

Also: silly me, even Sanity system is released to SRD. Lucky day!

[Fax Celestis]

True enough.

And no, I don't; most of the variants I liked are already released to SRD (bloodlines, regional race variants), the things I didn't like or wouldn't use (flaws, etc.) are many, and the things I really loved (sanity) aren't worth buying the book for. Filching from the unwary, yes, buying, no.

I should be more specific; when I say variants, I mean "Here's a way to shift the game balance of this class" or "here's a way to give it a new role in the party", more than I mean "here's a new set of rules for something completely different".

Also: silly me, even Sanity system is released to SRD. Lucky day!

I'll be honest: what your prerequisites above are saying tells me that you'd benefit a terrific amount from a copy of the DMG-II. There's rules for new kinds of item in there (magical locations, signature items, magical synergies, item templates), instructions on creating a prestige class or organization yourself, and quite possibly the best manual on "how to DM well" that I've ever seen. Further, they give sample rules for "archetypal locations" (such as aerial combat, a burning building, and a flooding dungeon). There's also the lovably abusable (for a DM) Mob template, a "how to build a city" Cityscape-lite section, and a metric ton of plot hooks in the form of magical events.

When I run a campaign, it's the book I go to for source material.

[Annarrkkii]

Blade Magic is misnomer for the title. Were you to leave out the Desert Wind school and the Shadow Hand school, you'd be left with a maximum of 10 maneuvers that deserve to be "supernatural" and are named that way. Creating your own, non-magic flavored maneuvers is as easy or easier than crafting new spells, and most of them are just raw, non-magical awesome.

Wolf Fang Strike is as simple as attacking with both weapons as a standard action. Emerald Razor allows you to make a Concentration check to make your attack be vs. your foe's touch AC. I mean, that vast majority of it is nonmagical. Swordsages are the only ones liable to encounter many Su. maneuvers, and Warblades won't encounter them hardly at all.

But I can see there's no convincing you. Unfortunate.

I rather like the Player's Handbook II, but, strangely, strongly dislike the Dungeon Master's Guide II. The first was highly useful, with new feats, cool new spells, and some nifty baseclasses (particularly the Duskblade). The DMG II had about 0 actual mechanics, but plenty of world-building flavor. A little bit TOO much, really.

I hear decent things about both the —scapes, particularly Dungeonscape, as I hear Cityscape was a poser, universalized Sharn: City of Towers, and wasn't really worth it. So Dungeon— over City—, if you buy a -scape.

Spell Compendium is not that great. New spells are often poorly thought out and breakable, and its otherwise just a mediocre time-saver, as it lacks the "search" feature so accessible in the CrystalKeep downloads.

[Jannex]

I'll be honest: what your prerequisites above are saying tells me that you'd benefit a terrific amount from a copy of the DMG-II. There's rules for new kinds of item in there (magical locations, signature items, magical synergies, item templates), instructions on creating a prestige class or organization yourself, and quite possibly the best manual on "how to DM well" that I've ever seen. Further, they give sample rules for "archetypal locations" (such as aerial combat, a burning building, and a flooding dungeon). There's also the lovably abusable (for a DM) Mob template, a "how to build a city" Cityscape-lite section, and a metric ton of plot hooks in the form of magical events.

When I run a campaign, it's the book I go to for source material.

Agreed. I just recently took a glance through the DMGII, and it's full of all sorts of interesting ideas. Certainly worth a look.

[Shiny, Bearer of the Pokystick]

I'll be honest: what your prerequisites above are saying tells me that you'd benefit a terrific amount from a copy of the DMG-II. There's rules for new kinds of item in there (magical locations, signature items, magical synergies, item templates), instructions on creating a prestige class or organization yourself, and quite possibly the best manual on "how to DM well" that I've ever seen. Further, they give sample rules for "archetypal locations" (such as aerial combat, a burning building, and a flooding dungeon). There's also the lovably abusable (for a DM) Mob template, a "how to build a city" Cityscape-lite section, and a metric ton of plot hooks in the form of magical events.

When I run a campaign, it's the book I go to for source material.

Really? I'd heard awful things about the tone of it- described as 'self-explanatory' or 'elementary'.

You can, however, color me intrigued at the prospect of synergies, templates, and location-based item-ness, and doubly so on the rules for burning buildings, aerial combat. etc; especially since my homebrew may include dirigibles.

Also, omnomnom delicious Mob Template, good for urban encounters...and how to build a city should be useful stuff galore.

I'm not sure how much I'll follow the how to DM section, but I'm willing to give it a once-to-thrice-over.

All in all, sold.

Annarrkkii, if that's really the case, I'd be all too happy to take a second look. All I seem to hear talked about are abilities I'd consider too fantastical; but as I clearly don't have the book, I'm entirely willing to be convinced otherwise.

By the way, does anybody have/know a good deal about Ghostwalk? The (prophetic beings of your choice) are silent on this issue.

[ThunderEagle]

DMG-II (my most recently bought book) is simply amazing. the amount of really useful stuff is just mindblowing. I recommend anyone who can to get this book if they plan on DMing. 6/5 from me for that book.

[Viscount Einstrauss]

Actually, if you really just don't want supernatural effects with blade magic, just stick with the crusader. They're the least flashy of the three, and the abilities and flavor are highly reminiscient of the paladin (while actually giving completely different abilities, making it a pretty good roleplaying idea to start as a paladin and then go into crusader). Later he can dip into Master of the Nine for some good flavor without supernatural stuff, Eternal Blade if you're okay with supernatural reasoning but not supernatural abilities (the flavor is basically that an elf is being watched over by the ancient spirit of a powerful elven warrior who's training him to be a stronger fighter), and the Jade Phoenix Mage and Ruby Knight Vindicator require you to have already been a regular, old school magic user before you took the classes, so the magical context is perfectly natural there.

Otherwise, it's true that the Desert Wind style lets you use fire pseudo-magic attacks a lot and Shadow Hand lets you do stealthy weird stuff (though most of it can actually be accomplished through rogue or monk-type prestige classes without touching magic classes anyway), and some others, though they're in the minority, are sort of odd-ball (like an early Tiger Fang stance that lets you use scent). But if you're the DM, you can see this stuff coming a mile off and ban it without really weakening whoever's taking the classes much.

Also, PHBII really is an awesome supplement. That and MMIII is how I come up with most characters these days.

[Shiny, Bearer of the Pokystick]

Okay, the short list is currently as follows:

1. PHB II
2. DMG II

And the possibilities for the coveted number three slot are:

A. Dungeonscape
B. Magic Item Compendium
C. Complete Scoundrel
D. Weapons of Legacy
E. Complete Adventurer
F. Magic of Incarnum
G. Heroes of Horror

While the longshots/dark horses are:

1. Tome of Battle
2. Lords of Madness
3. Complete Divine
4. Stormwrack
5. Libris Mortis
6. Complete Mage

And the one book that nobody's talked about yet and thus doesn't get a category is Ghostwalk.
Thoughts?

What needs to be moved up, or down, or re-categorized to better suit my needs? Why?

By the way; just a set a cap on things, let's assume I'm buying a maximum of three books in the current wave, and the rest go on a 'wait list'.