Best Race For A Beguiler

[Shrew]

What is the best race to use for a Beguiler? I would like something that ups int. and if possible makes the enchantment spells stronger. I know that a gnome would be good for the illusion spells. Also, is there a spell/ way to lower an enemies fortitude save?

[Were-Sandwich]

Grey Elf -2 Str +2 Dex -2 Con +2 Int

[Dhavaer]

Enervation lowers Fort saves, along with almost everything else, but Beguilers can't get it.

[Khantalas]

Whisper Gnome. Whisper gnomes are good for everything.

[Were-Sandwich]

Fatespinner is a 4/5 casting PrC from CA. Its 5th level ability is 1/day, target creature takes a -10 penalty on its next save.

[vanyell]

and to you saying that the beguiler can't learn enervation? advanced learning at level 3, or 7, I forget which level enervation is at the moment

[Dhavaer]

and to you saying that the beguiler can't learn enervation? advanced learning at level 3, or 7, I forget which level enervation is at the moment

Beguiler advanced learning only allows Illusion and Enchantment spells. Enervation is Necromancy.

[Marius]

and to you saying that the beguiler can't learn enervation? advanced learning at level 3, or 7, I forget which level enervation is at the moment

But they can't learn spells from the necromancy school.

[Jannex]

Beguiler advanced learning only allows Illusion and Enchantment spells. Enervation is Necromancy.

They do, however, get Use Magic Device.

Regarding the best race for a Beguiler, stat-wise Were-Sandwich probably has the right idea with Grey Elf. Stats notwithstanding, though, I'd go with whatever race is the most common/most well liked in the region where the campaign takes place. Easier to Win Friends And Influence People (TM) that way, without having to blow a spell on Disguise Self. Half-elves are nice, since they get bonuses to all those lovely useful skills. But humans, with the extra feat (because you're going to want Improved Feint) and the extra skill points, are probably at least as useful.

[Shrew]

What is this fatespinner class all about? Is it any good? I have never heard of it, so that leads me to believe it is not very good.

[Marius]

Half-elves aren't good for ANY class, humans are way way better.

Edit: I don't remember where it is, but it's a great prestige class.

[Sampi]

It's a PrC from Complete Arcane, one that lets you mess about with spell DCs and save rolls a bit. The first four levels give you some powers and full spellcasting, the fifth gives no spellcasting, but a -10 on a save once a day. Nasty for those save-or-die spells.

[Person_Man]

Some other options:

Tinker Gnome: +2 Dex +2 Int -2 Str -2 Wis, (Dragonlance).

Lesser Tiefling +2 Int +2 Dex -2 Cha, (Forgotten Realms)

Fire Elf: +2 Dex +2 Int -2 Con -2 Cha (Unearthed Arcana)


Level Adjusted Races: (Races with LA broken down to weaker versions by WotC).

Drow: +2 Dex, -2 Con, +2 Int, +0 LA

Feytouched: +2 Dex, -2 Con, +2 Cha, +0 LA


My suggestion is to go with the +0 LA version of Drow. If your DM doesn't approve of that, go with Tinker Gnome (small, bonus to Illusion spells). If you're not in Dragonlance, then go with Lesser Tiefling. If you're not in Forgotten Realms, I'd go with the Grey or Fire Elf, depending upon what your other stats are and whether you'd prefer the penalty to Str or Cha.

[Jannex]

Lesser Tiefling +2 Int +2 Dex -2 Cha, (Forgotten Realms)

Fire Elf: +2 Dex +2 Int -2 Con -2 Cha (Unearthed Arcana)

It strikes me that a Beguiler probably doesn't want a racial penalty to Charisma; their schtick is the social thing, after all. Winning friends and Charming people. Even though their spells go off of Int (and why that is, I'll never understand), Charisma is still very much useful for their concept and party role.

[ImperiousLeader]

Gnomes are good for Shadowcraft Mage, which can drastically up a Beguiler's offensive abilities.

Changelings and Humans are also good possibilities.

[Jacob Orlove]

Avoid Improved Feint. You're no good at melee combat at all, and your best bet is to be as far away from people as possible, not right up in their faces. If you must use it, a Whip lets you stay in melee from 15' away, and you can get cover from the party fighter-types (note that cover means you can cast spells without provoking AoOs).

Also, if you're anywhere above level 1, Charisma isn't actually super important. It's a nice bonus, but between having a bunch of ranks in the skill, and getting synergy bonuses, you'll typically be fine on bluff/diplomacy/disguise/gather info. It helps a lot for UMD, though.

A lot of races make good Beguilers, because the class abilities are not hugely biased to one particular "optimized" path. High int is definitely helpful, since it enhances your spells *and* skills, but you can (basically) get either half of that benefit with a gnome or human.

In general, you'll do better if you focus on making the best use of your class abilities, and pick a race that you like, rather than trying to find the "ideal" race. Remember, the best your race is going to do for you is give a couple +1s, which only matter 5% of the time. Good strategy and tactics matter 100% of the time.

[Krellen]

The best race for any class is human. There's little reason to ever not play a human. Bonus feats and skill points FTW!

[Tokiko Mima]

Doesn't Improved Feint have a good synergy with Beguilers due to their Suprise Casting and Cloaked Casting class features? Bluffing as a Swift action allows you to cast a full round spell/use your standard AND move action, ignore DEX for a touch attack (Ouch!) and potentially ignore Spell Resistance with a +2 to the DC on top of that. Without Improved Feint you still get a standard action, but I think an extra move/full round action could potentially benefit you quite a bit.

[Galathir]

I'm currently playing a Changeling (MMIII) Beguiler and that is a lot of fun. Although it probably isn't the best race in regard to stats, it can certainly fit the concept of a Beguiler.

[Jannex]

Doesn't Improved Feint have a good synergy with Beguilers due to their Suprise Casting and Cloaked Casting class features? Bluffing as a Swift action allows you to cast a full round spell/use your standard AND move action, ignore DEX for a touch attack (Ouch!) and potentially ignore Spell Resistance with a +2 to the DC on top of that. Without Improved Feint you still get a standard action, but I think an extra move/full round action could potentially benefit you quite a bit.

Yup, exactly.

[Ikkitosen]

Useful if going to Beguiler 20 and getting the capstone ability to ignore SR, but who goes beguiler 20? The DC increases cost you feats on imp feint, combat expertise, etc. which could be put to better use on spell focus feats that don't require standing your D6 HP ass next to the baddies!

[Jannex]

Useful if going to Beguiler 20 and getting the capstone ability to ignore SR, but who goes beguiler 20? The DC increases cost you feats on imp feint, combat expertise, etc. which could be put to better use on spell focus feats that don't require standing your D6 HP ass next to the baddies!

Eh, they get Tumble as a class skill.

[Ikkitosen]

Lol, as if that's enough!

[Jannex]

Well, that and the light armor. That's exactly as much as your average Rogue has going for him, after all, and they're expected to get near combat every now and again.

[Ikkitosen]

Yeah, but a beguiler has much better options. A rogue has to find a way to deliver sneak attacks as many times as possible. A beguiler has many more options that don't involve such risk thanks to their spells. Plus, have you looked at the number of touch spells you'd want to cast from the beguiler list?

[Person_Man]

It strikes me that a Beguiler probably doesn't want a racial penalty to Charisma; their schtick is the social thing, after all. Winning friends and Charming people. Even though their spells go off of Int (and why that is, I'll never understand), Charisma is still very much useful for their concept and party role.

Meh. While a low Charisma would certainly be a bad thing, especially at low levels, high Charisma really isn't that important. Bonuses to Skill checks tend to be pretty insignificant as a percentage of your total score once you get to 10ish+ levels.

I won't argue that a Fire Elf is better then a Grey Elf in this case. But a lesser Tiefling gets two bonuses, +2 Int and +2 Dex, and only gets one penalty, -2 Cha. I think that's well worth it for a Class that doesn't have any Cha based abilities, even if you do use your Cha Skills a lot.

[Viscount Einstrauss]

Beguilers are actually the only true normal caster class I've ever played, due to their skill monkey likeness. They're quite different from the standard rogue. Not entirely sure I did better with the beguiler, but I certainly didn't do worse. It basically boiled down to me not having to spend so much money on magical items, but needing to rely on magic a little more. Sort of balanced itself out.

[Jannex]

The best battle plan never survives the first engagement with the NPCs; there are going to be times when the character is going to need to remember which end of the rapier to hold. And since the class lends itself to Feinting as a Swift Action, there's really no harm in running with it.

[Bears With Lasers]

Human or Whisper Gnome are ideal for Beguilers. Human if you want to be able to impersonate Medium NPCs/races, Whisper Gnome otherwise.

Feat-wise, I like giving a human beguiler some Fey Bloodline feats from Complete Mage--with a flaw, you can get DR 3/cold iron at first level. (Without one, DR 2/cold iron.)

If you want Combat Expertise/Improved Feint, it's viable; getting people flatfooted for Surprise Casting is nice. Get a concentration-boosting item and pick up Mobile Concentration (CAdv): that way, you can tumble in, then feint, then cast and tumble out all in one turn.

[Tokiko Mima]

What I don't get about Beguilers is why they give you Suprise Casting as a class feature at 2nd level. I understand the 6th level improvement (It's like the Improved Feint feat) but the 2nd level feature sounds like they just rehashed the rules on Feints. The only difference I can see is that it says 'next melee attack or spell' instead of just 'melee attack.' Is it really against the rules for non-Beguilers like Sorcerers and Bards to use Bluff with attack spells?

Also, I thought you only made them lose their DEX bonus, but they could still make AoOs if you didn't cast defensively? I didn't know it made you flat-footed...?