I need information on Mab!

[Verbannon]

Hi, one of my players in my D&D 4e game is a pixie follower of Mab, and I have no idea who she is and can find next to nothing online. :( Anyone have any info on her?

[Phanixis]

She is the queen of the winter fey in the Dresden Files series of novels. Vary cool antagonist of sorts. Rather cold and merciless but a competent monarch that is good at her job. Probably lawful evil.

[Jakinbandw]

I only know her from the Dresden files. Queen of the unseele. Queen of air and darkness. Queen of the winter court orfairies. Not evil, but believes in growth through adversity. Very smart and crafty.

Written on my phone.

[The Random NPC]

It's not just Dresden Files, she's been around since at least Shakespeare.

[Vitruviansquid]

You should really ask your player to explain about Mab.

[Gavran]

You should really ask your player to explain about Mab.

Seconded. There are various sources, and many similarities between them, but if your player chooses to serve her it's because your player likes the version she's familiar with. What better source could you have to make the one your player wants to follow?

[Verbannon]

I think the player got her from a book of some sort, The dresdan files sounds like it. But I am playing a mostly canonical campaign. So the 2e or 3.5 or even first edition version could work as I could extrapolate from that.

[Verbannon]

I just did some googling, please don't tell me I'm looking at the right thing. The dresdan diles I'm looking at isn't even D&D!? Oh no! This is awful! My campaign is ruined! I'm so stupid I shouldn't have just assumed, gah what can I do now!?

[goto124]

Best bet is to ask the player who he thinks Mab is, what she does, why his character is worshipping Mab, etc.

[Nalak]

I just did some googling, please don't tell me I'm looking at the right thing. The dresdan diles I'm looking at isn't even D&D!? Oh no! This is awful! My campaign is ruined! I'm so stupid I shouldn't have just assumed, gah what can I do now!?

First you need to chill, okay its not as bad as you're thinking it is.
If the queen thing is not valid for your campaign have her be a particularly potent fey who fancies herself a queen with a collection of fey who serve her. This justifies your pixie player being her servant in most cases. If the player is a warlock or hexblade then you can have Queen Mab be somewhat mysterious figure that shows up in legends, but without any particular way to verify the authenticity of the legends.(Well unless you trust Mab, but god knows trusting fey to be honest is a nightmare.)

Remember you don't have to import all of Mab's stuff into the dnd campaign. If your player wants to be one of Mab's followers then the personality will be more important than the power held by The Queen of Air and Darkness. Mab's personality is tricky in the Dresden files series, but nothing that would mess you up too much I think. Mab operates under the principle of leave the stragglers where they fall. Basically she expects you to do things and she will only give you jobs she thinks you can do (no slay a tarrasque at level 1 for example) but this doesn't mean she expects it to be easy and it very much follows that Mab's assistance will only be giving you some information to do it for yourself. Mab does not lie (in the direct sense) and will hold true to a bargain regardless of anything. Mind you this doesn't mean Mab won't make sure you have the completely wrong impression under the logic that it is not her fault if you fail to understand her meaning. For a simple example Skin Games has Harry being rented out and Mab's agreement is "[Harry] will help you steal what you want out of that vault." With the logic being of course that once the item is out of the vault the agreement is complete even if the heist is still in progress. Otherwise Mab is kind of a giddy psycho. She handled physical therapy with her knight once by having a nurse take care of him and do the normal nurse stuff and Mab would attempt to murder him in a new way every single day. You don't get more than she thinks you can handle, but you are expected to handle it using your own skill and ability.

If there's some other issue you'll have to lay it out so we can try and help you deal with it.

[Thrudd]

Hi, one of my players in my D&D 4e game is a pixie follower of Mab, and I have no idea who she is and can find next to nothing online. :( Anyone have any info on her?

Shouldn't you be telling your player who Mab is, in your world? Or if Mab even exists? If you're into the whole collaborative world building thing, then just ask the player who they want Mab to be and work it into your setting.

There was no Mab (Mabd) in any D&D edition I can think of (unless she's statted in the 1e Deities and Demi gods book under the Celtic section, which is possible).
she's a figure from Irish or Welsh mythology that has been used in various works of fiction in different forms.
If you don't want there to be a Queen Mab in your game, just tell your player that they will need to rethink their character a little. Tell her who the ruler of the faeries is in your world.

[Thinker]

I just did some googling, please don't tell me I'm looking at the right thing. The dresdan diles I'm looking at isn't even D&D!? Oh no! This is awful! My campaign is ruined! I'm so stupid I shouldn't have just assumed, gah what can I do now!?

In DnD, this is based on Queen Mab. Just change the name and presto! Done!

[neonchameleon]

I just did some googling, please don't tell me I'm looking at the right thing. The dresdan diles I'm looking at isn't even D&D!? Oh no! This is awful! My campaign is ruined! I'm so stupid I shouldn't have just assumed, gah what can I do now!?

Honestly, the number one rule of DMing is "Don't sweat the small stuff". Your campaign is not ruined in the slightest - indeed bringing in mythological figures like Mab is true to the roots of D&D. Just take a deep breath, relax, and roll with it.

Mab is an ancient mythological figure who predates the Dresden Files by centuries (D&D has always drawn heavily from myths up to and including Cthulhu), and the reason that halflings are in D&D is that most of Gygax' original group were Tolkein fans (even if Gygax himself wasn't). So they wanted to sometimes play hobbits (who were renamed halflings after legal letters from the Tolkein estate). But Gygax was happy to let them - and both Gygax and Arneson were happy to have Mike Mornard run a baby Balrog as a PC in their campaigns as the design principle (according to Mornard) was always "We made up some **** we thought would be fun".

So. What is Mab? The Queen of Air and Darkness, the Queen of the Faerie is from all sources a capricious deity specialising in illusions. She's powerful, but like all illusionists she will not make clear the real extent of her power (meaning that she appears to be a lesser deity in the game world because she doesn't have a whole lot of worshippers - but it would be entirely consistent with her nature to be anything from a really powerful non-divine illusionist pretending to be a Goddess to someone with about as much power as Erathis who wants to be overlooked - indeed I'd expect the Queen of the Dark Court to be on one of these two extremes, and the lower extreme could lead to a whole lot of plots at higher level).

When I say she's capricious, she's also known for cruelty - but not at all in the way Lolth is. It's more "for the lulz" in the sort of way that has fun SWATting livestreaming video gamers but would be dreadfully upset if someone were to get shot ... for all of about a week before she'd start doing it again. And in most sources she wants absolute respect paid to her (which lends weight to the theory that she isn't actually a God by D&D standards, just an especially powerful wizard specialising in illusions who's convinced at least some fae she's a God).

I hope that gives you plenty to work with?

[gom jabbarwocky]

I've never read the Dresden Files and don't know what the books are about, but I've heard of Queen Mab.

The first recorded known reference to Queen Mab was in the 16th century in the play by William Shakespear "Romeo and Julliet" where Mab is described by the character Mercutio as a malevolent fairy hag, the 'queen of dreams,' who punishes 'unchaste' ladies by making them ugly. However, the character obviously was not an original Shakespeare creation and probably existed in folklore for generations preceding the play.

That should be enough to work with. Just make stuff up that plays on the theme of a nefarious trickster dream goddess who screws with people. Bam! Done.

[Verbannon]

I'm running an canonical campaign but discovering the queen of air and darkness is a thing in D&D might have saved my bacon. I just have to read up on her in monster mythology and dragon magazine 359 and extrapolate the likely effect of the passage of time. And than make my player accept the D&D version of the queen of air and darkness. Thank you!

[Thrudd]

I'm running an canonical campaign but discovering the queen of air and darkness is a thing in D&D might have saved my bacon. I just have to read up on her in monster mythology and dragon magazine 359 and extrapolate the likely effect of the passage of time. And than make my player accept the D&D version of the queen of air and darkness. Thank you!

What is canonical D&D to you? There are various published settings each of which has their own "canon". The DM creates the game world and decides what things are in it. So if you want a Mab in your world, make a Mab. If you don't want her, she doesn't exist. Those deity books from 1e and 2e aren't "canon", they are giving stats to different myths and legends from the real world and fictional works, in case a DM wants to use any of them.

You should not look at all published material as "canonical" D&D. It is all ideas and suggestions and tools for you to build your own game (unless you are using someone else's setting, like forgotten realms, greyhawk, dragon lance, or Eberon. )

If you tried to use and allow every single thing ever published for any D&D edition, the game world would be ridiculously convoluted and nonsensical. Make a world that makes sense, and let the players make characters which fit into it.

[Verbannon]

I am trying to run a canonical infernal campaign though based on information culled from months of research. D&D has this annoying habit of stating a different version of their canon with every single telling each with only a bit of truth. And it took me a long time to figure out through trial and error the most likely version of events. (Seriously there are about thirteen versions of the rebellion in 4e alone, not to mention back in 2e and 3.5. Which are important as 4e prioritized covering figures not well covered in those editions.)

In edition to the main plot I like to make side-plots based on character backgrounds. Which is why knowledge of Mab was important.

[Thrudd]

I am trying to run a canonical infernal campaign though based on information culled from months of research. D&D has this annoying habit of stating a different version of their canon with every single telling each with only a bit of truth. And it took me a long time to figure out through trial and error the most likely version of events. (Seriously there are about thirteen versions of the rebellion in 4e alone, not to mention back in 2e and 3.5. Which are important as 4e prioritized covering figures not well covered in those editions.)

In edition to the main plot I like to make side-plots based on character backgrounds. Which is why knowledge of Mab was important.

That's exactly my point. All the information in all the editions of D&D do not make up some kind of single world or canonical story. There is no such thing as D&D canon. Even within any given edition, the books are not a canonical story.
You can pick whatever version of the infernal rebellion that you like the best, or make up your own. That is the "canon" for your game, the truth for your world. The players' backgrounds need to fit into YOUR world, whatever you decide it is. You can tell them their background is inappropriate for your world and ask them to adjust it.

I hate to say your research was a waste of time, I'm sure you got a lot of ideas from all the reading you did. There is no truth in any of it, or it is all truths for an infinite number of different disconnected potential worlds. There is no secret thread that connects all of it, no hidden story of what "really" happened. You make it all up yourself.

[The Glyphstone]

She is the queen of the winter fey in the Dresden Files series of novels. Very cool antagonist of sorts. .

First you need to chill, okay its not as bad as you're thinking it is.
.

I hope these puns were intentional, they're very 'ice'.

[Verbannon]

That's exactly my point. All the information in all the editions of D&D do not make up some kind of single world or canonical story. There is no such thing as D&D canon. Even within any given edition, the books are not a canonical story.
You can pick whatever version of the infernal rebellion that you like the best, or make up your own. That is the "canon" for your game, the truth for your world. The players' backgrounds need to fit into YOUR world, whatever you decide it is. You can tell them their background is inappropriate for your world and ask them to adjust it.

I hate to say your research was a waste of time, I'm sure you got a lot of ideas from all the reading you did. There is no truth in any of it, or it is all truths for an infinite number of different disconnected potential worlds. There is no secret thread that connects all of it, no hidden story of what "really" happened. You make it all up yourself.

Sorry but WoTC has said so many times that there is kernel of truth in each telling that I am convinced simply by how often they repeat this line, that Wizards does have a loremaster with the 'real story' and that truth from the real story is seeded into the myths. And that through an inductive process of reasoning a coherent reality can be pulled together from all the tellings. If this is not true I still need to act like its true because I can't function without a reliable narrative causality.

[Thrudd]

Sorry but WoTC has said so many times that there is kernel of truth in each telling that I am convinced simply by how often they repeat this line, that Wizards does have a loremaster with the 'real story' and that truth from the real story is seeded into the myths. And that through an inductive process of reasoning a coherent reality can be pulled together from all the tellings. If this is not true I still need to act like its true because I can't function without a reliable narrative causality.

When has WotC said that? There are no lore masters weaving a story across all the editions of the game. They make it up as they go along. You create the narrative causality, as the DM, choosing whatever elements from the books you like. It is up to you to make a coherent reality for your game, the books are just possibilities.

Maybe it would be easier for you to choose one of the published settings to get your narrative, if coming up with your own is too much? Try forgotten realms, a pretty standard one that uses most of the core material of D&D. Your desire for a coherent reality and a more defined "canon" will be sated.

[The Glyphstone]

...this is an RPG company, not the Illuminati. They don't have a secret hidden record of The One True History of A Fictional Gaming Universe' that they then obscure by retelling fragments of it through even more fictional myths.

Write a history to make your game make sense. But know that it is your story, not the carefully unearthed hidden truths of a bunch of bureaucrats who wouldn't know narrative casuality if it bit them on the butt with a map and a flashlight.

[Ravens_cry]

Best bet is to ask the player who he thinks Mab is, what she does, why his character is worshipping Mab, etc.

I very much agree. As a player, I would love for a chance to input something potentially lasting like this into the 'verse.

[Verbannon]

When has WotC said that? There are no lore masters weaving a story across all the editions of the game. They make it up as they go along. You create the narrative causality, as the DM, choosing whatever elements from the books you like. It is up to you to make a coherent reality for your game, the books are just possibilities.

Maybe it would be easier for you to choose one of the published settings to get your narrative, if coming up with your own is too much? Try forgotten realms, a pretty standard one that uses most of the core material of D&D. Your desire for a coherent reality and a more defined "canon" will be sated.

Just about every time they put out an article. They'll say something like "There are many contradictory legends, each with a kernal of the truth' or they'll say "the truth is likely something in between' or 'The truth has been obscured through countless retellings, but like all legends there is a nugget of truth in them."

[goto124]

Does your campaign depend so heavily upon the actions of the gods, that you have to absolutely sure about what each god has done? Even then, your player's idea of Mab will differ anyway, and that idea is the one you should run with. The game is for you and the players, after all.

What has the player said?

[Thrudd]

Just about every time they put out an article. They'll say something like "There are many contradictory legends, each with a kernal of the truth' or they'll say "the truth is likely something in between' or 'The truth has been obscured through countless retellings, but like all legends there is a nugget of truth in them."

That means that each DM may choose to interpret the material provided however they see fit, add to it or change it or decide not to use it at all. It is also sometimes written from an in-world perspective, which means if players are reading it they should know that this is not necessarily real in their own game (since their DM will decide that). It is encouraging you to devise your own world and cosmology. Exactly not to think that they are writing a "canon" which is true for all D&D games.

[Spriteless]

Don't sweat the people telling you not to sweat the cannon details too much. If you find researching multiple versions of a fictional story to figure out the likely 'true' version, more power to you. You can even give players whose characters are good at researching lore some several contradictory versions of the story you have, and let them try to sweat it out too. Be sure to listen in to their speculation, so you can add any good insights they have to the lore too.

Just remember, though, you are creating the truth for this campaign, not WotC. The writers of these stories have come and gone, some left before TSR was bought by WotC, some left when WotC was bought by Hasbro, some just left for better jobs, some left the mortal coil. Some writers have forgotten the details of what they wrote and contradict themselves. Yet, if piecing together stories to find secrets is rewarding, then it is the best way for you to play!

[kyoryu]

I'm gonna say what others have said - find out what your player thinks Mab is, and use that as a base.

[tomandtish]

Sorry but WoTC has said so many times that there is kernel of truth in each telling ...

Hate to say it, but that's typical shorthand for "99% of what is in here is going to contradict other material, and this is how we admit it without admitting it". Much the same way that the movie Starship Troopers is loosely based on the back jacket of a novel by Robert Heinlein.

Everyone has already sai it. but it's true. Mab can be whomever or whatever you want her to be. As long as you keep YOUR vision of her consistent in your game, it doesn't matter what se is.

Maybe she's a former demon queen who took her followers and left for another realm so long ago that no one but her even remembers she was once a demon. Maybe the Fae fight a holding action against demons, trying to keep the war from spilling into the mortal coil. Millenia of doing spo have caused her to seem as dark as those she fights.

Maybe she's just Elsa on a bad day.

The best part about D&D? Taking material and making it your own. I'd certainly talk to your player about version (one internet cookie says it is Dresden Files). Working her into the game will be no trouble.