Looking for a paladin fix

[Deme]

I love paladins: concept-wise, they're one of my favorite classes...my problem?

The fact that after 5th level, it's all more-or-less dead for the paladin. I'm not looking for anything huge, per say, and I know there have been threads about this in the past (even with the search, I can't find the sort of thing I'm looking for)...I just want a reason to continue down my second-favorite class, so just a fix for the paladin, really. Anyone got anything for me? Or a link to something that does?

[Morty]

Well, here's one:
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?t=33551.
That's probably most recent fix, I'm sure there were others.

[Fax Celestis]

Woot. I've been linkéd.

[Matthew]

I rather like the idea of allowing Paladins to do their Smite Damage all the time, so that they would be permanently doing +1 Damage per Paladin Level against Evil Creatures, making the Attack Bonus for Smite equal Paladin Level instead of Charisma Bonus and making all Saving Throws 'Good'. Somewhere in the mix (maybe Level 20) Paladins should become immune to all mind compelling effects, via Divine Purpose or something similarly named.

[Caledonian]

Just keep in mind that anything you give to PCs can be given to NPCs. Would you be satisfied facing a Blackguard that did +1 damage/level to Good creatures? Would your players?

[Matthew]

What do you mean, satisfied? Overpowered? If so, it is worth remembering that Rangers can do +1 Damage per Level to Humans, should they choose to take them as Favoured Enemies and making the Attack Bonus use the Paladin's Level, rather than Charisma Bonus isn't much more powerful than True Strike.

[Caledonian]

No, Rangers cannot do that.

Favored Enemy (Ex)

At 1st level, a ranger may select a type of creature from among those given on Table: Ranger Favored Enemies. The ranger gains a +2 bonus on Bluff, Listen, Sense Motive, Spot, and Survival checks when using these skills against creatures of this type. Likewise, he gets a +2 bonus on weapon damage rolls against such creatures.
At 5th level and every five levels thereafter (10th, 15th, and 20th level), the ranger may select an additional favored enemy from those given on the table. In addition, at each such interval, the bonus against any one favored enemy (including the one just selected, if so desired) increases by 2.

Please be sure you understand the RAW when you post.

[Fax Celestis]

No, Rangers cannot do that.




Please be sure you understand the RAW when you post.

Uh, if they choose Evil Outsider as their first Favored enemy, and then continue to amplify it with their additional Favored Enemies down the road, they end up with a +10 on damage against them on every swing, as well as +10 on the skills involved.

Matthew's probably the last person you want to ask if he knows the RAW too.

[Matthew]

Whoops, all the same it seems I was asleep at the wheel when I posted that. Yeah, as Fax says, it would be +10 Damage at Level 20, rather than +20 for the Ranger. All the same, I still wouldn't consider it overpowered.

[Iron_Mouse]

http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=761045
Another variant. This paladin is supposed to be balanced against ToB classes.

[Caledonian]

Mistakes happen, rules are confusing - and at low levels, the bouses against the first Favored Enemy are closer to 1/level than at high levels, where it's 1/2 levels. Ironic, no?

I think that 'boring' classes are often that way because their abilities tend towards the specific and highly limited, even if they're powerful. Flexibility and flavor are often more interesting than raw power, and can even be more useful.

Here's a thought: what if, as a paladin becomes more powerful, eventually he doesn't need to Detect Evil in order to sense strong auras of evil? Think of Highlander, and the "Sense Immortal" ability. It doesn't tell you what's evil, or even where it is, but you have a feeling that it's there somewhere.

[illathid]

OneWinged4ngel's paladin rewrite (found here, or in Iron_Mouse's post) is probably the best I've seen so far. While Fax's rewrite (found here, or in m0rt's post) is good, the whole mix-and-match code/abilities just seems kinda off to me.

The main difference between the two, in my opinion, is that OWA's paladin is like the standard Wizards version, only better, while Fax's paladin is a more of free form application of the paladin archetype to the D20 system. Damn, thats one long sentence.

Anyways to answer the OP's question, I would say to decide what the "paladin" archetype actually means to you, and then choose from there.

[Holocron Coder]

There's even a variant paladin here.