Leap Attack Question

[Roderick_BR]

I'm making an epic barbarian with 10 levels of Frenzied Berserker and with the feat Leap Attack.

Ok, using Power Attack allows you to get -1 on your attack roll and gain +1 to damage. With two-handed weapons, the bonus changes to +2.

Using a Leap Attack rises the bonuses to +2 and +3 respectively. These bonuses replace the normal modifiers, right? My friend said that I would multiply for x2, and then for x3 with a two-handed weapon. That would be a bit too powerful, so I just use x3 instead of x2.

Thing is, with Frenzied Berserker, I get Supreme Power Attack, that gives me +2 with one-handed weapons, and +4 with two-handed weapons. With the wrong calculation my friend gave me, I would multiply the bonus for x4, and then x3.
Power attacking for full BAB would deal +240 points of damage! That's wrong, right? Should I just sum the bonuses for a x6 multiplier? That wouldn't be as bad, as the total P.A. would be "only" +120

Btw, with the current calculation, my character gains damage +40 (maxed strenght + frenzy + rage + goliath racial bonuses). If I roll a critical with the goliath greathammer, I deal more than 1,000 points of damage. Tarrasque dies with one hit @_@

[Arbitrarity]

According to the way that's written, you actually don't quite multiply that way.

Normal PA: 1-1
2H PA: 2-1
Leap attack: 2-1
2H leap attack: 3-1
Supreme PA: 2-1
Supreme PA 2H: 4-1
Supreme PA leap attack: 4-1
Supreme PA 2H leap attack: 6-1

So PA for full is 120.

Remember, if you want to full PA, get shock trooper. Just don't kill your allies.

[JaronK]

In the end, a Frenzied Beserker 10 with Leap Attack gets 6 to 1 returns on his power attack.

Don't forget your shock trooper!

[Person_Man]

It was higher pre-errata, but Arbitrarity's math is currently correct.

In addition to Shock Trooper, remember to use a reach weapon. I would also suggest Combat Reflexes and Knock-Down. This will mitigate your piss poor AC after using Shock Trooper+Leap Attack.

FB is not as uber as you might think though. It's very difficult to prevent yourself from entering Frenzy in even a minor battle, so its hard to hold on to for when it really counts. And if your Cleric with Calm Emotions isn't handy, you might kill your friends as well.

[PinkysBrain]

It was higher pre-errata, but Arbitrarity's math is currently correct.

No it isn't, leap attack does the exact same damage as supreme power attack. Although I think he just mistyped the "2H leap attack" entry, all the other ones are correct.

If you cover at least 10 feet of horizontal distance with
your jump, and you end your jump in a square from
which you threaten your target, you deal +100% the
normal bonus damage from your use of the Power
Attack feat.

Supreme Power Attack: A 10th-level frenzied
berserker deals +100% the normal damage from her use
of the Power Attack feat. In other words, when using
the Power Attack feat, a frenzied berserker wielding a
two-handed weapon gains a +4 bonus on damage rolls
(instead of a +2 bonus) for each –1 penalty she applies
to her attack rolls.

PS. hmm the "Supreme PA leap attack" is wrong too, that one is 3-1.

[Genome]

Can Headlong Rush be combined with this?

[Roderick_BR]

Thanks guys. Yeah, I tought Leap Attack and S.P.A worked pretty much the same, that's why I asked if I could ot the total 120, instead of 240.
What got my attention is how Leap Attack said to multiply for x2, and if i'm using a 2H weapon, to multiply for x3, but I already do a multiplication when using P.A normally with 2H weapons.

Ah, I can't get Shock Trooper, Knock Down, nor Commbat Reflexes because I ran out of feats.... XD But when he rages, he gains the reach abilities, so it's not so bad. And to make up for the lack of Shock Trooper, I use the combo Caster Glove + Rod of Sure Striking.

[Matthew]

No it isn't, leap attack does the exact same damage as supreme power attack. Although I think he just mistyped the "2H leap attack" entry, all the other ones are correct.
PS. hmm the "Supreme PA leap attack" is wrong too, that one is 3-1.

Oh man, now I'm confused. How does this work again? I thought it was 4-1 for both and 6-1 in combination. Is this how it works now or not?

One Handed Power Attack: 1-1
Two Handed Power Attack: 2-1
One Handed Power Attack and Leap Attack: 2-1
Two Handed Power Attack and Leap Attack: 4-1
One Handed Power Attack and Supreme Power Attack: 2-1
Two Handed Power Attack and Supreme Power Attack: 4-1
One Handed Power Attack, Supreme Power Attack and Leap Attack: 3-1
Two Handed Power Attack, Supreme Power Attack and Leap Attack: 6-1

[PinkysBrain]

Yep, that list is correct.

[Person_Man]

Can Headlong Rush be combined with this?

Yes, Headlong Rush can be combined with Leap Attack+Shock Trooper. It can also be combined with Rhino's Rush, the first level Swift action Paladin/Ranger/Wrath spell that doubles the damage of your next charge attack.

But it's up to the DM about whether or not it can be combined with Spirited Charge, which requires a mount, since the wording of Leap Attack requires that you jump.

Also, for what it's worth, I went back and forth with WotC Customer Service on the question. At first they gave me Matthew's numbers. Then they wrote me back a month later with this:

Hi there Person,

There was a revisit to the Leap Attack feat official answer, and it seems that I misunderstood what the answer was supposed to be. Because of our Help system, I'm able to send you this update and inform you how the rule is supposed to be properly adjudicated. This is passed down from the big dogs.

The 100% entry in the errata only applies to the second sentence. The 100% entry in the errata document was created to cut down on the confusion regarding the intent behind the word "double". They got rid of the "double" entry because it confused how it was supposed to work with other effects that "doubled" power attack damage.

The 3rd sentence is not changed. The "Tripled" entry is intended to replace the "doubled" entry mentioned in the Power Attack feat.

The final math behind the feat is as follows:

Power Attack + Leap Attack + one-handed weapon: -1 atk, +2 damage

Power Attack + Leap Attack + two-handed weapon: -1 atk, +3 damage

According to the errata, Leap Attack doesn’t add any more damage when used with a two-handed weapon than it does when used with a one-handed weapon. Either way, it is intended to add one more point of damage per point of attack penalty.

I'm very sorry for the confusion that has occurred regarding this issue. Hopefully this will help to solve any debates that have occurred due to the previous incorrect ruling on my part.

When coupled with Supreme Power Attack, the ratio would be: -1 atk, +7 damage.

Take Care and Good Gaming! :)

So as you can tell, not even WotC is sure what to do. I currently go with Arbitrarity's math. It's up to your individual DM to decide what math to go to with this, because WotC doesn't understand how to edit.

[Tor the Fallen]

Getting damage reduction and a high AC will be useful to keep you out of involuntary rages. Try to up your will save as well. A ring of sustenance let's you get over rage fatigue/exhaustion in only a couple hours, which is very handy.

[Roderick_BR]

I re-read the entries and the erratas.
That's how it goes:
1 Handed= 1/1
2 Handed= 2/1
Supreme Power Attack gives + 100%
Leap Attack gives + 100%
So, if I attack for full BAB, I have -20 attack, +40 damage.
With Supreme P.A., I get +40 (+100%) for a total pf +80.
With Leap Attack, I get another +40 (+100%) for a total pf +120.
So, I get a 8/1 deal. Hey, it's better than my original result, giving me a 12/1 deal
If I level up any time soon, I'll probably get fighter levels for the extra feats, since I already have everything I wanted from the others classes (Greater/Mighty and Tireless Rage, and Greater and Tireless Frenzy)

Edit: I meant 6/1 not 8/1...

[Matthew]

Roderick, +120 Damage for -20 AB is a 6:1 Ratio [20 x 6 = 120]. An 8:1 Ratio would mean 160 DB and a 12:1 Ratio would mean +240 DB.

[Edit] Ninja...