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Thread: Mage vs. Mob

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    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Post Mage vs. Mob

    A good friend of mine and fellow gaming buddy described a comic he'd recently seen to me this weekend, it went something like this:

    A wizard is walking back to his home from a recent trip to market to buy spell components, scrolls and various magical knicknacks, as he approaches his home he hears an incredible commotion. Rounding the corner he sees a mass of townspeople with your usual implements of mob justice, torches, pitchforks and the like. A spokesman makes his way to the front of the mob and the following conversation ensues:

    Spokesmen: Infernal Sorcerer we have come to put an end to your evil spellslinging ways! We're prepared and know that not even a fourth level wizard could stand before the might of all 22 of us!
    Wizard: First I'm a wizard - see the book, and second I just leveled up guys.
    Spokesman: 5th level? So 3rd level spells then?
    Wizard: Yep.
    Spokesman: Oh, well we'll just quietly slink away then.
    Wizard: Leave your pants.

    So, while this is humorous and illustrates the gulf between second and third level spells pretty well after hearing it I made the claim that there was probably a pretty good chance that even the 4th level wizard could probably stand up to the mob, so we put together a little experiment to play out the scenario. The basic thought was that the wizard would have had to be a good fit in an adventuring party and not just optomized for plowing through angry commoners, with that in mind...

    Our Intrepid wizard had the following statistics (Elite Array, Standard WBL, no more than 2000 on any single item, Average hp)

    Wizard 4 (Conjuration Specialist (Evocation and Necromancy barred Schools))
    Str 10, Dex 13, Con 14, Int 16, Wis 12, Cha 8
    hp: 15
    Feats: Spell Focus (Conjuration), Augment Summoning, Spell Focus (Illusion)
    Equipment: Ring of Protection, Wand of Colorspray, Scroll of Summon Monster III, Scroll of Stinking Cloud, Scroll of Windwall, 3 Potions of Cure Moderate Wounds, there may have been a few other things but I don't remember anything else substantive.
    Spells Prepared: 1st: Mage Armor, Summon Monster I, Grease, Expeditious Retreat, Sleep. 2nd: Gliltterdust, Spider Climb, Summon Monster II, ???

    The mob consisted of a 1 2nd Level Aristocrat, 2 1st level Experts, 19 1st level commoners. They all had the stat array 10, 10, 10, 11, 11, 12 with thier high stat determined randomly by the roll of a d6. The commoners were armed with one of the following a Torch, a Club, with the exeception of two who had crossbows and a local fisherman with a net, the experts were equipped with the tools of their trades, a smith with a hammer and leather armor, and a bowyer with a longbow, the aristocrat was wearing a chain shirt and carrying a longsword.

    As the wizard wanders home from market he gets listen checks as he approaches his home, he fails several but finally becomes aware of them just before rounding the corner that would put him in the middle of their line of sight, about 60ft away from the conflagration of peasantry. Wondering what all the commotion is about the wizard carefully peers around the corner. Unfortunately one of the mob sees him and initiative is rolled. Fortunately our wizard rolls a 14 and wins initiative. The rounds of combat broke down like this:

    1st Round: The wizard concerned about being rushed by the aristocrat leading the charge casts spider climb and scales the 10ft to the top of the nearest building. Thinking himself now safely out of reach, the wizard beathes a sigh of relief, until his eyes settle on several of the peasants carrying 10' ladders, appearently they'd planned on scaling the roof of his two story study if he'd barricaded himself inside. One of those three ladders goes up at the end of the block of adjoining buildings about 50ft from the wizards current position. Other peasants make progress up the street the aristocrat still standing prominantly at the front. One of the two crossbow weilding peasants lets out a yell of triumph as his bolt finds a home in the wizards chest (6 damage).

    1st round recap: Ok, so the wizard lost more than a third of his hp in the first round, no biggie, soon he'll be throwing out some save or lose spells and he should win the day.

    2nd round: Still reeling from the sucking chest wound inflicted upon him seconds ago the wizard retrieves his scroll of wind wall from his case and begins the incantation, thinking to himself Damn, I'd hoped to scribe this soon. The wall goes up in a protective cylinder around the wizard granting him protection from the towns two crossbowmen and the bowyer. A second ladder goes up in a place about 35 feet from the wizard, and peasants begin to scale the first ladder placed into position. More people advance up the street and clamber up onto the rooftops. The two crossbowmen and the bowyer all fire, only to see their arrows and bolts carried away by the protective wall of gale force winds surrounding our caster-protagonist, frustrated they abandon they're ranged weapons and advance on the wizards position.

    2nd round recap: Three opponents neutered by the wind wall will now have to combat unarmed. The wizard takes no more damage and hovers at 9 hp

    3rd round: Finally, I can start to clear away some of these vermin thinks the wizard as utilizes his scroll of Summon Monster III and calls forth a Fiendish Crocodile in the midst of the gaggle of townsfolk advancing up the road. It promptly takes a monstrous bite out of the Aristocrats leg, dealing 13 damage, but the aristocrat fortuitously manages to pry the beasts jaws from his leg before it begins its notorious "death roll" (no grapple this round). Making a lucky Knowledge (arcana) check the aristocrat recognizes the croc as a summoned creature and orders some of the townsfolk to hold it at bay since it will vanish back into the ether in mere seconds. Mortally wounded but still standing the aristocrat begins to climb a third ladder, this one placed on the same building the wizard is standing on, a mere 15 feet from his current position. The town smith the fisherman and three commoners engage the crocodile, the net scores a hit and entangles the crocodile, the smith brings his hammer down on the creature forehock, enraging it and causing 5 damage, the other commoners take total defense. More commoners race across the rooftops of the adjoining buildings, one manageing to make it into melee with the wizard.

    Round 3 recap: This is where things get interesting, wizard is in melee, beast is summoned. Wizard still has 13 hp, the whole mob is still standing 3 are sans weapons.

    Round 4: Needing to deal with the man who's closed to melee before he starts to lay a serious beating on the fragile caster the wizard unleashes a furuious flashing frenzy of colors from his wand sure to bring on epileptic seizures in all but the most willful townsfolk. As expected the commoner drops like a sack of turnips, so far so good. The crocodile turns on the man with the net and bites down hard rending the hapless fishermans leg from his body. More commoners rush forth, three close to melee and attempt to begin grapples one fails to get a good grip on the wizards robes, and one is turned back by a successful attack of opportunity, but the third establishes a solid hold wrenching the wizards arm into an uncomfortable position (2 subdual damage). In the street the expert swings and the crocodile again and misses, the three commoners again take the total defense action.

    Round 4 recap: The wizard is down to 7 hp and grappled, one townsperson lays slain by the crocodile, one unconscious at the wizards feet, and three have abandoned their weapons.

    Round 5: Blast these buggers will they ever leave me be! The wizard lets loose with another blast from his wand of colorspray, five out of six commoners in range go down, but unfortunately the one survivor is the one grappling the wizard. The croc attacks one of the commoners trying to hold it back but thanks to the commoners total defense and an abismal roll on my part the attack misses. The Aristocrat ascends a ladder and orders more commoners into the grapple. And they pile on, 4 more attempt to grapple the wizard, one misses his touch attack but the others throw hands in the wicked balibrook developing on the city rooftops, (5 more subdual damage).

    Round 5 recap: To quote the classic arcade Gauntlet: "Wizard needs food Badly!" he's down to 2 hp, 1 commoner dead, 1 expert dying, 6 commoners unconcious.

    Round 6: With the tide turned against him the wizard starts to think about escape. Making the difficult concentration roll he casts grease upon his robes to help him escape from the grapple, but since that consumed his only standard action, the actual escape will have to wait until next round. The Crocodile makes another horrible roll, misses the commoner and blinks out of existance, the duration of the summon expired. The commoners in the grapple manage to inflict another 4 points of subdual damage and the wizard slips into unconciousness from the savage beating he has recieved.

    Round 6 recap: Things went poorly for the wizard this round, he fails to eliminate any additional members of the mob and is eventually over come. In his unconcious state the wizard doesn't see the noble thrust his longsword into the wizards chest cutting the sustaining thread of life before the fates had their chance to do the same.

    So aside from telling an interesting story my goal here was to ask is this the outcome most would have expected, and secondly how could the wizard have been played differently. Despite over 15 years of playing D&D this is only the second time I've played a caster, the first time since 1997 (so consequently the first time in 3.x). I've DM'd them as opponents so I have a bit of experience but even still I guarentee there are many here with greater caster experience than I, and I yeild to thier greater knowledge.

    Here are a couple of my own thoughts: this soundly indicates that the primary currency of D&D combat is the standard action, outnumbered as he was the wizard was at a huge action deficit meaning each of his actions needed to take as many opponents out of the fight as possible. I feel the mistakes were made early in the fight, particularly in round 1 when his action should have been to back around the corner and get his mage armor up, then spiderclimbing to relative saftey the next round. I'm not at all sure summoning was the right path to go and I've decided fore darn sure that the Croc was a poor choice, anything with multiple natural attacks would have been vastly superior. Also the stinking cloud would have been a big help but because they had multiple ladders and several avenues of approach there wasn't a good chokepoint to ensure the wizards assailents passed through it requiring them to save or forfiet a huge number of actions from nausea. The wand of colorspray worked wonders but it required them to get far too close before it was useable and the sheer number of mooks closing in on him mitigated its usefulness.

    So what are your thoughts?

  2. - Top - End - #2
    Ettin in the Playground
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    Default Re: Mage vs. Mob

    Alter self to grow wings, then fly out of reach. Cast Invisibility. Then cast Summon Swarm and concentrate until the mob is dead or runs away.

    Easy. And the important spells (Alter Self and Invisibility) are spells any level 4 wizard should consider preparing.
    Last edited by Aquillion; 2007-04-09 at 03:24 PM.

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    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Mage vs. Mob

    Although Aquillion does how a good point, the wizard doesn't really reach the levels of huge powers until 10th level or so, and doesn't totally make the party obsolete until 15th, give or take a few level, depending on classes and optimization levels.
    Last edited by martyboy74; 2007-04-09 at 03:23 PM.

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    Default Re: Mage vs. Mob

    Since he's on the roof he can make sure to knock down a few ladders before the commoners got up there. if he had the mind to take sudden extend or something while also taking sculpt spell at level 3, he could easily have turned his burning hands spell, or even a good grease spell into the following

    Burning hands
    Any number of painful shapes, including a fireball and dragoncone.

    This can also be done with a good save/lose Color Spray spell.


    Grease:
    4 10ft cubes, use it on the ladders, fun times

    20ft radius blast, DUH, i.e. fireball but more hilarity.

    120ft line. Not as funny but pretty good to cover an escape.

    60ft cone. Cone of Cold style, much like burning hands

    Even Caltrops, a tiny little cantrip from Spell Compendium, can be upped to a mere first level spell
    sending the tiny annoying d4s all over the damn place.

    If the only problem is area of effect Sculpt Spell wins.
    Last edited by Skyserpent; 2007-04-09 at 03:29 PM.
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    Default Re: Mage vs. Mob

    I think I'd have started with the stinking cloud, and then when they'd staggered out I'd have been summoning a swarm rather than monster. A swarm of spiders would have put them off a fair bit. The only ones able to have hurt them would have been swinging at them with torches, and they're ungrappleable. And they'd only be able to do that when they got over the nausea, which a swarm of spiders would also cause whenever it's in the same area.

    Doubt a net would do much either.

    That and I just like swarms.

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    I would have started off by summoning a huge centipede in front of me, stopping them in their tracks. Next turn sees glitter dust smoking the majority of the mob. Then spam Color spray until they all drop. An additional summoned monster can help make the CdG's you need.

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    Default Re: Mage vs. Mob

    What the wizard should have done is "defeated" the encounter by successfully escaping alive (therefore thwarting the mob). That's a matter of Expeditious Retreat + run actions.

    Alternatively, Alter Self + Avariel or Raptoran would let him fly.

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    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Oh I forgot an important element of the discussion: Core Only.

    Otherwise I would have built the wizard somewhat differently.

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    Dwarf in the Playground
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    Default Re: Mage vs. Mob

    The first thing that comes to mind is that this wizard doesn't have Web memorized. That's a standard adventuring spell and it would be great in this situation.

    Mob: "Hi, we're here to kill you."
    Wizard: "Huh? What did I do to-"
    {Archers shoot at wizard}
    {Wizard casts Web, engulfs a bunch of mob members in webs}
    Wizard: "Ooh, are those torches you're carrying?"
    WHOOSH! {Webs catch on fire frying mob members}

    Protection from Arrows seems like another obvious choice for an adventuring wizard. This wizard wouldn't need to burn a 3rd level scroll that way.

    Levitate also seems like a common adventuring spells and it would get you away from the mobs even if they have ladders.

    One tactic would be to cast Protection from Arrows and Levitate to get out of reach and then summon monsters to get rid of these silly npcs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bears With Lasers View Post
    What the wizard should have done is "defeated" the encounter by successfully escaping alive (therefore thwarting the mob). That's a matter of Expeditious Retreat + run actions.

    Alternatively, Alter Self + Avariel or Raptoran would let him fly.
    Well I understand that. Escaping would have been the sounder course of action but it wasn't really the point of the discussion. If he had only wanted to get away that would have been simple, perhaps there were things in his house he couldn't bare to give up without a fight, I don't know.

    Several of the suggestions so far have been things I considered but then had to throw out the window to keep with the core only limitation, the sudden metamagics and summon swarm were at the top of that list. I think I did have web memorized, see the ??? spot on the spells prepared list, I forgot what one of them was and left my notes at my buddies place.

    To better elabotate the scene, it wasnt a single rooftop but rather the roofs of several adjoining buildings so that it order to get to the furthest away ladder and push them back down would have involved a double move followed by a standard action to push the ladder down. I considered the tactic but decided my actions were too precious to spend on such a mediocre delay tactic. Especially since eventually ladders had were placed in 3 different locations (at the far end of the row of adjoined buildings 60ft away, at about the a halfway mark 35ft away and then 10ish feet in front of the wizard on the same building he was in).
    Last edited by Morgan_Scott82; 2007-04-09 at 03:40 PM.

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    Default Re: Mage vs. Mob

    Wizards are on an understandably skewed power scale, but I think a Fog Cloud, and then some summon monster spells would do the trick. In fact, I'd summon an unseen servant with instructions to knock over any ladders, considering it doesn't seem to need sight. And then use that bigass crocodile under a cloud cover so they wouldn't know what's hitting 'em.
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    Let me be clear this wasn't at all a question about the wizards power level or any claims about game balance, just a: hey, do you think this is possible kind of situation.

    I had overlooked alterself because I've pretty much erased the whole polymorph chain from my memory, due to the consistantly questionable balance and routine houserule modifications, admittedly it might have made the challange easier.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Morgan_Scott82 View Post
    Several of the suggestions so far have been things I considered but then had to throw out the window to keep with the core only limitation, the sudden metamagics and summon swarm were at the top of that list.
    Umm...summon swarm is in the SRD, are you sure it's not core?

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    This would be one occurance where flaming sphere could have been very beneficial.
    After the arrow shot (if it occured) a nice false life could have helped him back on his feet if hp was an issue
    however, you banned both of those schools so you'd need something else
    i personally like the mount spell-- have it charge at the enemies scattering them.
    but i hate to say it, bears has the right idea. his method or invisibility and walk away.

    alternatively, invisibility-- get in a better position and then start unloading some SMII and color sprays
    Last edited by jlousivy; 2007-04-09 at 03:47 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jasdoif View Post
    Umm...summon swarm is in the SRD, are you sure it's not core?
    I was working from a PHB, maybe I just flipped past it. It was a spell I was vaguely aware of but had never encountered personally, and when I didn't see it in my initial passthrough I may have just moved on.

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    This is my post from the other one of these threads.
    -----------
    You forgot sleep. He should have cast it on the guys coming up the ladder. It can get 5 commoners per casting.

    Web would have been a good choice as well. Protection from arrows is a better choice than wind wall at that level. And wind wall is from one of your banned schools.

    A scroll of fly would have been a better choice. It makes it so you can't be grappled.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jlousivy View Post
    This would be one occurance where flaming sphere could have been very beneficial.
    After the arrow shot (if it occured) a nice false life could have helped him back on his feet if hp was an issue
    however, you banned both of those schools so you'd need something else
    i personally like the mount spell-- have it charge at the enemies scattering them.
    but i hate to say it, bears has the right idea. his method or invisibility and walk away.

    alternatively, invisibility-- get in a better position and then start unloading some SMII and color sprays
    The problem with false life would have once again been the opportunity cost associated with the action, yes the wiz once again has a few more HP, but he didn't make any progress towards balancing the action equation, thus not changing the likelihood he would be injured again.

    Invisiblity/colorspray combo sounds nice, I'd have to look over the spell text again I assumed casting a spell had the same effect as attacking, namely ending the spell.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Emperor Tippy View Post
    This is my post from the other one of these threads.
    -----------
    You forgot sleep. He should have cast it on the guys coming up the ladder. It can get 5 commoners per casting.

    Web would have been a good choice as well. Protection from arrows is a better choice than wind wall at that level. And wind wall is from one of your banned schools.

    A scroll of fly would have been a better choice. It makes it so you can't be grappled.
    See I my best attempt at playing a wizard and it betrays my lack of experience with the spell lists, overlooking great spells and casting a scroll from a banned school (it must be evocation.)

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    Ettin in the Playground
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morgan_Scott82 View Post
    Well I understand that. Escaping would have been the sounder course of action but it wasn't really the point of the discussion. If he had only wanted to get away that would have been simple, perhaps there were things in his house he couldn't bare to give up without a fight, I don't know.
    Yes, but he can use a temporary retreat as a defense. He can run out of reach, then summon things and send them at the enemy as the follow, or, better yet, just turn invisible, summon something, then move until the enemy loses track of him. Invisibility would last 40 rounds, and he has lots of ways to indirectly attack without breaking it.
    Last edited by Aquillion; 2007-04-09 at 03:57 PM.

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    Protection From Arrows + Levitate = Neener Neener Neener!

    Then whatever - Sleep, Summon Swarm, or just pull out a light crossbow and start shooting back. What Wizard is without a good Dex? Levitate is one minute/level, Protection from arrows gives him DR 10/Magic (which the mob couldn't surmount) for 40 points of "damage". Pluck off the archers first (a light crossbow does 1d8, vs. a Commoner's / Experts d4 (2)/d6 (3) HP? One shot each, usually) then sit back high and mighty until they either lose hope or all die. Either way works.

    Two spells, no scrolls needed. Protection From Arrows is a great one for avoiding ranged stuff (and a Wizard needs to stay out of melee range anyway - so arrows are one of the big threats), and Levitate has tons of uses.
    Of course, by the time I finish this post, it will already be obsolete. C'est la vie.

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    I think you performed admirably during the battle. The Wizard lost, but as you said it was expected. Could he have won? Yes, it's a possibility. Perhaps casting Mage Armor first would've been a better route, but who's to say that some Commoner or the Aristocrat wouldn't haev gotten lucky and hit anyway?

    I think the best option in this scenario is to try and escape. If the Wizard can prepare for the battle, say by hiding from the mob for the night, then he could pretty likely return and defend his home. Of course, that's not what this exercise is out to prove. The Wizard did not start the day thinking, "Hmm, what should I prepare, I'm probably going to have to fight a mob of angry villager today..."

    All that aside, given the situation you presented, this would be a good course of action.

    Assuming that the Wizard manages to win Initiative (He's pretty much totally screwed if he doesn't).

    Round 1: The Wizard, let's call him Merlin, discovers the mob's intentions and realizes that (with his 8 in Charisma) he can't convince them not to try and destroy him. So, he casts Mage Armor as a Standard action and retreats 30 feet with a Move action.

    Mob: The mob charges at Merlin, and the bowyer and two crossbow-wielding commoners can't fire at him because the crowd blocks their shots.

    Round 2: Merlin casts Grease on the ground between himself and the crowd, preferably directly underneath the Aristocrat and the front of the mob. He uses his Move action to retreat 30 more feet.

    Mob: Let's say that while some of the mob slips and falls, the Aristocrat doesn't and the mob quickly learns to go around the 10x10 square. The Aristocrat closes on Merlin and makes an attack, however thanks to the Mage Armor he misses, this time.

    Round 3: Merlin realizes that there may be too many of these angry villagers to fight them all off. However, he can't currently retreat because of the Aristocrat that is just waiting for him to run and leave himself open for an Attack of Opportunity. So, he uses his Wand of Color Spray and leaves the Aristocrat and several others unconscious, blinded, and stunned for 2d4 rounds, and the rest of those ill effects in the Color Spray description. Merlin takes his Move action and moves another 30 feet away.

    Mob: The blast of the wand leaves several member of the mob, including their leader, down, but the rest of the mob only becomes more enraged, and continues chasing Merlin, the head of the group catching up and performing charge attacks, 1 of which is successful, despite the Mage Armor, and deals 1d4+1 damage with his Club (he had a Strength 12, unfortunately for Merlin). He rolls a 4 and deals 5 damage to Merlin.

    Round 4: Down to two-thirds of his hit points, Merlin succeeds in a Casting Defensively check and is able to cast Summon Monster II and calls forth 1d3 Monstrous Medium Fiendish Centipedes, he rolls decently and get 2, they appear directly behind the villagers who are trying to attack him and attack them, dealing 3 and 4 damage respectively, disabling one commoner and scaring the pants off the other. Merlin moves 30 feet farther away, provoking 3 AoOs, only one of which hits (thanks again to his Mage Armor spell) and he takes 3 damage.

    Mob: Seeing the beasts appear out of nowhere and noting that they've already severly injured one of the villagers, the rest quickly try and get away, several stay and fight the Centipedes however, and with flanking bonuses are able to destroy one.

    Round 5: Merlin, seeing that the crowd is momentarily distracted by his monsters, casts Expeditious Retreat and moves 60 feet away, getting the retreat started in earnest. The remaining Centipede bites at another villager, but misses.

    Mob: One of the villagers sees that their Wizard is escaping, and attempts to lead the rest in pursuit once more, a few take up the charge again, but the majority are tending to the several injured and unconscious members of the mob, while others are trying to defeat the last Centipede.

    Round 6: Merlin takes a double move action and gets 120 feet away, clearly outdistancing his attackers. He dismisses his Centipede, not truly wanting to hurt the villagers more than was necessary to facilitate his escape.

    Mob: The few remaining pursuers stop running as they watch Merlin bound away at incredible speeds. The rest of the former mob tends to the wounded men and watches the Color Sprayed ones until they recover. There are no casualties, but the mob learns its lesson.

    This battle was entirely fabricated. I made no actual rolls, I didn't work out any stats, I just made arbitrary decisions that didn't favor one side over the other, I think.

    It seems to me that the Wizard simply cannot defeat the mob as he stands, they are too many and he does not yet have the firepower to stop them. However, if played carefully with a few decent rolls he can escape to fight another day.
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    Anyone casting a ninth level spell should not be just bending the fabric of reality, but chewing up the fabric of reality and spitting it out. It represents an expenditure of raw magical force that should be momentous, and should have similar shock value as the events following Grand Moff Tarkin's "You may fire when ready."

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    Default Re: Mage vs. Mob

    i know you dropped evocation, but the experiment was a sucess, a wizard with another level, and fireball prepared, would have left a forest of chared boots (for effect) and maybe five confuzed, warm, survivors, with brown pants.

    as is thats why i don't make specialists, unless its a group of different specialists as bad guys. because you could prot. from arrows, levitate/fly then fireball/magic missile as grouping of opponents determined. i know there are other attack oriented spells, but i like those. they taste of victory.
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    Default Re: Mage vs. Mob

    Quote Originally Posted by Darkxarth View Post
    It seems to me that the Wizard simply cannot defeat the mob as he stands, they are too many and he does not yet have the firepower to stop them. However, if played carefully with a few decent rolls he can escape to fight another day.
    And then he can think 'Hmm, I bet I will be attacked by an angry mob of villagers. I should prepare for that.' Once he does that, the villagers are, more or less, screwed.

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    Default Re: Mage vs. Mob

    Quote Originally Posted by martyboy74 View Post
    And then he can think 'Hmm, I bet I will be attacked by an angry mob of villagers. I should prepare for that.' Once he does that, the villagers are, more or less, screwed.
    Yes, once he escapes and is able to prepare for a battle with the mob, he could very conceivably beat them. Even with Evocation as a banned school. At the very least, Expeditious Retreat to run circles around the villagers while using the Summon Monster spells to combat them would likely work, and that was using effectively no imagination. Any roll-player worth their gp could think of several other ways of creatively defeating the villagers.
    Last edited by Darkxarth; 2007-04-09 at 04:52 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Talya
    Anyone casting a ninth level spell should not be just bending the fabric of reality, but chewing up the fabric of reality and spitting it out. It represents an expenditure of raw magical force that should be momentous, and should have similar shock value as the events following Grand Moff Tarkin's "You may fire when ready."

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    Default Re: Mage vs. Mob

    Quote Originally Posted by Morgan_Scott82 View Post
    Here are a couple of my own thoughts: this soundly indicates that the primary currency of D&D combat is the standard action, outnumbered as he was the wizard was at a huge action deficit meaning each of his actions needed to take as many opponents out of the fight as possible. I feel the mistakes were made early in the fight, particularly in round 1 when his action should have been to back around the corner and get his mage armor up, then spiderclimbing to relative saftey the next round. I'm not at all sure summoning was the right path to go and I've decided fore darn sure that the Croc was a poor choice, anything with multiple natural attacks would have been vastly superior. Also the stinking cloud would have been a big help but because they had multiple ladders and several avenues of approach there wasn't a good chokepoint to ensure the wizards assailents passed through it requiring them to save or forfiet a huge number of actions from nausea. The wand of colorspray worked wonders but it required them to get far too close before it was useable and the sheer number of mooks closing in on him mitigated its usefulness.

    So what are your thoughts?
    You’re correct, actions are the primary currency in D&D combat. That does make large numbers of opponents potentially dangerous. However, you wasted or misused most or all of the wizard’s actions. Round 1 was spent on a completely ineffective defensive tactic which functionally ceded initiative to the mob, round 2 was spent on a defense only effective against 10% of the mob, round 3 was spent on a single target offensive spell (come on, he’s fighting a crowd use an AoE and if you have to summon something, put it between you and the crowd), round 4 was his first effective offensive action…but by this point he’s grappled and significantly injured. Round 5 is a repeat of 4 and round 6 is blown in an unsuccessful escape attempt.

    Basically you gave the mob four more rounds of effective action than you did the wizard. Of course the wizard loses.

    He could have prepared more effective spells, but even staying with your list he misused them badly. His first action could have been Grease followed by a move action to put him behind cover. That would have prevented a large number of the mob from even reaching him and the second round could have Color Sprayed those who did make it through the Grease without falling. Third round use Glitterdust to blind your most dangerous enemies (as many crossbowmen & the aristocrat as you can get in the area). Then you summon a monster to clean up the left-overs while you Coup de Grace those out due to Color Spray.

    There are other options, Glitterdust could have been used first for example. But the point is, the wizard in your example wasted two-thirds of his actions. And, as others have pointed out, his spell selection was sub par to start with.
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    Default Re: Mage vs. Mob

    Would starting off with a Sleep or Summon Monster be wise though? Both a have a casting time of 1 round, meaning that you get to start casting them on your turn, let the entire mob go and then, at the start of your next turn, have the spell go off.
    Will be edited by Ryuuk : Sometime in the future.

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    Default Re: Mage vs. Mob

    Summon monster has a casting time of one round (or is it different on a scroll for some reason?)... so that crocodile shouldn't have shown up until round four, just before the wizard's turn.

    Also, feh... waste a whole round summoning some guy? I woulda started by making sure they stayed away from me first. 21 angry mobsters, not all of them will even bother with the summoned monster. Grease, web, color spray,... a better start once you are safe from arrows.

    Doh! ninjaed.. Well, it had to happen eventually..
    Last edited by daggaz; 2007-04-09 at 07:36 PM.

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    Default Re: Mage vs. Mob

    Grease doesn't work, because the guys with ranged weapons can simply shoot the wizard.

    Web, they're just entangled. They can still shoot weapons...

    Color spray has a low area of effect. Commoners can avoid it by spreading out all around the wizard, then the wizard has to take four actions to hit all of them.

    Protection of arrows work, yes. Though you have a choice. Stop melee attackers first, or stop ranged attackers first? Each one lets some of them get through.

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    Default Re: Mage vs. Mob

    Round 1: Protection from arrows, retreat 30 feet.
    Round 2: Scroll of Fly, retreat 30 feet straight up
    Round 3: Web by the guys with torches
    Round 4: Sleep or Glitterdust or Colorspray on some of the people
    Repeat round 4 until all of the mob is dead or incapacitated.

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    Eldritch Horror in the Playground Moderator
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    Default Re: Mage vs. Mob

    And Web is Conjuration, not Evocation.

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