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  1. - Top - End - #1
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    ken-do-nim's Avatar

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    Default Real-life brain teaser: Pearl Harbor

    I'm going to take a break from my 'fix the game' threads and pose a brain teaser. I'd like this to become a regular, weekly thread (I've got lots more thought up). Basically, when I'm just standing in line at the checkout counter, this is the kind of thing I think about (well, you know, when not thinking about that other thing that consumes 90% of a man's brain). This is basically a nod to the super-hero element of D&D.

    What Really Happened:
    On December 7, 1941 at 7:55 AM, the Japanese fleet launched a surprise attack on the US naval forces at Pearl Harbor. In total, the Americans suffered 2,896 casualties of which 2,117 were deaths. All together the Japanese sank or severely damaged 18 ships, including the 8 battleships, three light cruisers, and three destroyers. On the airfields the Japanese destroyed 161 American planes and seriously damaged 102. Comparatively, the Japanese lost 29 planes over Oahu, one large submarine (on 10 December), and all five of the midget submarines. Their personnel losses (according to Japanese sources) were 55 airmen, nine crewmen on the midget submarines, and an unknown number on the large submarines. The Japanese carrier task force sailed away undetected and unscathed.

    What Can Your D&D Character Do About It?
    Now let's say you are a D&D character, sympathetic to the US, living near the naval base. The Japanese fleet has just arrived, and you hear the first explosions. What can you do to stop/mitigate the assault?

    The limitations:
    Core only
    Magic items according to wealth-by-level
    28 point buy (though you don't need to get that specific)

    The award goes to the person who thinks up the most clever answer using the least amount of character levels and considering the comprehensiveness of the solution.

    Okay, I look forward to seeing your creative responses
    Last edited by ken-do-nim; 2007-04-11 at 11:11 AM. Reason: ok, some magic items

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    Default Re: Real-life brain teaser: Pearl Harbor

    "Control Weather" would be the most obvious one, but that's high-level and requires advanced knowledge that the Japanese are planning something.

    I've thought of one lower-level solution. First of all, you'll probably need two wizards, one Gnome illusionist and one evocation specialist. Wait out the waves of fighters; they're not the real threat, since they're not going kamikaze yet. Have a Gnome cast "Rainbow Pattern" as the bombers approach. 24 HD of Bomber pilots are fascinated, and crash into the ocean. Evocation specialist readies a Fireball to ignite any bombs that make it through, exploding them before they hit. Repeat for each wave of attackers.

    Alternate plan: Divination to find out what radio frequency the Japanese are using. Bard with high Bluff check casts Tongues, and completely screws up their battle plans, sending them to attack an area of open ocean (with no ships actually there). Repeat as necessary, until their fuel runs out.

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    Default Re: Real-life brain teaser: Pearl Harbor

    Detect thoughts. Hang out near the president and his intelligence liason. Oh, whats that? The Japanese are going to attack, and you are going to let it happen??

    What you do about that (and how you prove it to the masses) is a whole nother problem.. Of course, be aware that if successful, you will probably stall the US involvement in the war until it is too late for the rest of the world.

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    Default Re: Real-life brain teaser: Pearl Harbor

    You're caught by surprise as well? You're already hearing the first explosions? Seems to me that without some kind of time-manipulation trickery there's not a LOT you're going to be able to do do mitigate this. There aren't too many spells that will stop or deflect large objects like bombs by enough to keep them from doing damage, and the pilots are going to be inside the planes and thus out of line-of-effect for things that target them directly.

    Telonius' Rainbow Pattern plan is pretty good, though. You need mass save-or-lose spells vs the pilots, mainly. Hypnotic Pattern has the problem of it's small (10-ft radius) spread which is going to be a problem in general vs the air forces - they will be spread out over a very large area.

    Most battlefield-control spells likewise will fail due to their low height. Wall of Force is a contender, as the level 10 wizard who can cast it would be able to make 10-foot walls that are 100 ft. high, and will last for a minute or so. Getting planes to crash into these would be the trick. Unfortunately the spell does specify a vertical wall.

    I go for the spells because I really don't see a non-caster class being able to deal with this situation so well. Unless you have a really epic rogue who can hide the fleet or something

    An Air Elemental Swarm might do some good with the whirlwind ability, as well.

    Also, wasn't there an episode of Freakazoid where he did this?
    "'To know, to do, and to keep silent.' Crowley had the first two down pat."

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    Default Re: Real-life brain teaser: Pearl Harbor

    Quote Originally Posted by daggaz View Post
    Detect thoughts. Hang out near the president and his intelligence liason. Oh, whats that? The Japanese are going to attack, and you are going to let it happen??

    What you do about that (and how you prove it to the masses) is a whole nother problem.. Of course, be aware that if successful, you will probably stall the US involvement in the war until it is too late for the rest of the world.
    There's no proof the President knew of the attack. In fact, the evidence regarding it is quite feeble.

    You're a first level Bard - go to the Radio Station and start singing. Double the BAB of every 1st level fighter/warrior (i.e. green soldier) on the island within range of a working radio receiver. Every MG gunner, rifleman, and pilot just significantly increased their chance of nailing a Japanese plane...
    save your fears
    for the day
    when our pain is far behind
    on your feet
    come with me
    we are soldiers stand or die

    save your fears
    take your place
    save them for the judgement day
    fast and free
    follow me
    time to make the sacrifice
    we rise or fall

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    Default Re: Real-life brain teaser: Pearl Harbor

    Quote Originally Posted by Sundog View Post
    There's no proof the President knew of the attack. In fact, the evidence regarding it is quite feeble.
    That's my understanding too.

    You're a first level Bard - go to the Radio Station and start singing. Double the BAB of every 1st level fighter/warrior (i.e. green soldier) on the island within range of a working radio receiver. Every MG gunner, rifleman, and pilot just significantly increased their chance of nailing a Japanese plane...
    Hilarious! We may have a winner.

    My thoughts were much higher level. I agree it is hard to stop the planes, but you can sure as hell make sure they have nowhere to land. Your invisible, water-breathing, enduring elements, protected vs. normal missiles wizard/sorcerer flies out to the Japanese fleet. Swim under the carrier fleet. A few well-placed disintegrate rays should sink those carriers (unless they are just too big and the spell would have no effect?)

    But yes, an air elemental swarm with the whirlwind ability should sweep the sailors off the decks.

    Another idea is simply to teleport no error to the Imperial Palace in Japan and raise havoc, maybe hold the Emperor hostage until the attack is called off.

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    DwarfBarbarianGuy

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    Default Re: Real-life brain teaser: Pearl Harbor

    My thought was Scry on the Air Craft Carrier they came from after the first wave, teleport in to magazine, drop a fireball(delayed blast) and port out.
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    Default Re: Real-life brain teaser: Pearl Harbor

    I'm not going to bother thinking of ways to attack the planes. They are moving too fast and the battle covers too much area for D&D spells to have any affect. You could bring down some IJN planes, but not enough (and certainly not fast enough) to save Pearl Harbor.

    The best, lowest level thing I can think of requires some real artistry using illusions. Basically, fly out to sea and create an illusion of aircraft carriers. The spell won't make a full sized one, so you basically need to create one in such a way that a close illusion appears to be farther off. Hopefully, this will draw off a big chunk of the attackers since they really wanted to sink the US carriers. Augment this with some sort of suggestion or fake broadcast like Telonius mentioned.

    Another approach, albeit a fairly high level one, would be to use scry to find their fleet, cast fly and improved invisibility or whatever they're calling those spells now, cast teleport without error to get there. Once there, use an illusion to make a torpedo wake heading straight for a carrier then use fireball (for flash) and disintigrate or passwall (to make a hole) to simulate the detonation. Rinse and repeat, if possible. havoc. Hopefully that will get the admiral in charge (Nagumo? Can't remember off hand) to decide he's been discovered by American subs so he will call back his planes and head for Japan. Spice it up with an illusion of periscopes in the water near the fleet. For fun, wait until the planes return and get near the stern of the carrier then, when the planes try to land, use a wand to magic missile the pilots as they try to land.

    Edit: Then, like sort of like someone else suggested, Teleport without Error to the Imperial Palace, kidnap the emperor and Teleport without Error with him to the White House and deliver him to the President.

    Then, some rest and rememorization of spells. Once word comes of the attack on the Phillippines, I'll need to go kick more butt.
    Last edited by MaxKaladin; 2007-04-11 at 01:32 PM.

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    Default Re: Real-life brain teaser: Pearl Harbor

    Teleport onto the bridge of the Akagi. Cast Dominate Person on Admiral Yamamoto. Have him call off the attack. When the fleet is well on its way back to Japan, Teleport back to Hawaii with the Admiral. Have him tell the Americans everything he knows about the Japanese war preparations. USA wins.

    Requires a single 9th level Wizard or Cleric (Travel and Domination domains), or even a low level Rogue or Warlock with scrolls and high enough UMD. A Warlock 4/Marshal 1 with the Motivate Charisma aura should be able to do it quite easily.

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    Default Re: Real-life brain teaser: Pearl Harbor

    Some kind of divination to locate the japanese commander, and teleport to get your ass to him. Suggestion to get him to call off the attack.

    EDIT: Simu'd!
    Last edited by Ikkitosen; 2007-04-11 at 01:41 PM.

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    Default Re: Real-life brain teaser: Pearl Harbor

    Hmmmm ... now there's an idea. It would probably require a Changeling or a Spymaster, but you could Teleport Without Error into the Imperial Palace, assassinate the Emperor, and stuff the remains into a Bag of Holding. Changeling assumes the identity of the Emperor and calls off the attack. He then declares war on the US using standard diplomatic channels, leading Germany to (as planned) declare war as well. Shortly thereafter, defect to the Allies. Send half the fleet through the Suez to bolster North Africa.
    EDIT: Blast, that's not core-only. Let me think a bit on it ...

    Ah, there we go. Just cast Polymorph on any high-Charisma Bard with Maxed out Diplomacy, Bluff, and Knowledge (Japan). Turn him into the Emperor.
    Last edited by Telonius; 2007-04-11 at 02:32 PM.

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    Default Re: Real-life brain teaser: Pearl Harbor

    My character? I honestly can't think of much that he would be able to do. Lvl 1 rogue/lvl 1 sorcerer...

    I'd probably try to use magic missile on planes that are in the middle of other planes. If one blew up the explosion would hopefully damage the rest. I could probably get three groups of japanese planes.

    Once I've used up all my spells, I'd most likely try to use my flaming bolts (invested heavily in those a while back) on the planes.

    Really? At my level I've got little in the way of effective strategies off the top of my head, and would be just as helpful if I got into a plane or something

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    Default Re: Real-life brain teaser: Pearl Harbor

    If there's only the one person, use the bard suggestion or be a wizard and start burning holes in the bottom and sides of the boats. If there's more than one, then it gets fun. Drop a few mid-level rogues and fighters onto one of the ships and commandeer it. Works best if you hit one at the back. Then start bombing the back of the others with the guns. If that looks like it won't work, send them to the next. Best idea, simply drop them on the admiral's ship and hold him hostage. That, or use him as ammo for one of the guns on his ship and watch their reactions when the admiral starts shooting at them. Especially when he shoots himself over
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    Default Re: Real-life brain teaser: Pearl Harbor

    Telonius-

    If you can Teleport without Error, you can PAO yourself into the Emperor. No changeling required.
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    Default Re: Real-life brain teaser: Pearl Harbor

    Yeah, I realized that just after I edited. Thanks!

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    Default Re: Real-life brain teaser: Pearl Harbor

    At level 6 or so, with wealth by level spent on a Candle of Invocation. Summon an Effreti with it. Three wishes spent on 3 more candles. Repeat a couple times, then gate in Solars to beat the snot out of the Japanese air force. I figure 10-20 Solars could do some real damage.

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    Default Re: Real-life brain teaser: Pearl Harbor

    Incapacitate incoming airplanes with Wall of Forces, Telekinetic Spheres, Forcecages, Resilient Spheres, and judicious applications of Disintegrate, Fireball, and Lightning Bolt. Wall of Force in front of a plane will cause it to crash, as will a Telekinetic/Resilient Sphere or a Forcecage around it. Blast those you can't incapacitate.

    Or, you could cast Control Weather and make it impossible for planes to fly.

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    Default Re: Real-life brain teaser: Pearl Harbor

    Quote Originally Posted by Person_Man View Post
    Teleport onto the bridge of the Akagi. Cast Dominate Person on Admiral Yamamoto.
    Nagumo. Yamamoto was in Japan during the attack. He planned it, but it was executed by Nagumo.

    In any case, I'd worry about the reactions of everyone else present when that happened...

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    Default Re: Real-life brain teaser: Pearl Harbor

    Quote Originally Posted by Sundog View Post
    You're a first level Bard - go to the Radio Station and start singing. Double the BAB of every 1st level fighter/warrior (i.e. green soldier) on the island within range of a working radio receiver. Every MG gunner, rifleman, and pilot just significantly increased their chance of nailing a Japanese plane...
    Is it bad that the first thing that came to mind when I read this post was this?

    As for my own plan, the only ideas I can think of involve either wingbind or downdraft as the planes come in to strafe, but neither spell is core. Meh.
    Last edited by Dark_Wind; 2007-04-11 at 03:06 PM. Reason: D'oh!
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    Default Re: Real-life brain teaser: Pearl Harbor

    Not sure if this would work but how about several walls of fire to cause the bombs, and planes to explode before they get to the harbor. At 8 level you can make a wall of fire 160 ft long and 20 ft high.

    Also, how about mass suggestions to just go home.

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    Default Re: Real-life brain teaser: Pearl Harbor

    Okay, one thing that may be important - what are the bomber pilots' stats? I'm thinking probably Warrior2/Expert1, or Warrior3. Planes were a lot simpler back then, but you still couldn't just pick up any Commoner1 and put them in a cockpit.

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    Default Re: Real-life brain teaser: Pearl Harbor

    I'd say Expert X. Warriors are physical fighters. Flying a plane, however, takes skill.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morgan_Scott82 View Post
    ...From an in character perspective, being one who knows they're about to face emminant demise, it makes every bit of sense to pursue the course of greatest power...To not try to make your character as effective as possible within the confines of the rules and the characters background, and surrounding environment is to be decidely out of character.




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    Default Re: Real-life brain teaser: Pearl Harbor

    There are three problems with most of these spells: range, area and targeting.

    1. Range: World War II planes flew at speeds of hundreds of miles per hour. In D&D terms, 200mph would be something like a movement rate of 1760. At speeds like that, a plane could pass in and out of range of most spells in a single round. Further, the battle took place over an area of several square miles. The vast majority of that battlefield is going to be out of range for any given wizard, even with a fly spell.

    2. Area: Likewise, compared to the size of the battlefield, most D&D spells affect a very tiny area. You really can't target multiple planes with a spell simply because they'll be too far apart. The ships being targeted are hundreds of feet long, so protecting any one of them will require many castings of most spells to protect the whole thing.

    3. Targeting: The space the battle is taking place in is vast in D&D terms. Placing a stationary effect like a wall of force for planes to run into has a very low chance of success simply because there is so much space for the planes to fly in. Its not a matter of doging, but simply of the low chance of a pilot choosing to fly through just exactly the few dozen feet of air you happened to put a wall of force (or whatever) in.

    I don't think it's possible to bring down all (or even most) of the planes before they can carry out their mission.

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    Default Re: Real-life brain teaser: Pearl Harbor

    Quote Originally Posted by MaxKaladin View Post
    Nagumo. Yamamoto was in Japan during the attack. He planned it, but it was executed by Nagumo.
    Doh! Serves me right for watching too much G4 and not enough History Channel. And I haven't read a book about Pearl Harbor for at least 8 years, but I've read multiple books about the fake histories of fantasy worlds. Oh well. I'd do better if this were a Greek or Roman history brain teaser.

    Quote Originally Posted by MaxKaladin View Post
    In any case, I'd worry about the reactions of everyone else present when that happened...
    I don't know, I think having someone appear would just freak them out. Casting the spell just requires me talking, and maybe waving my arms around a little. Maybe I should cast Repulsion and Protection from Arrows on myself before I Teleport over?


    Another idea: If you get there too late, have a team of Necromancers Create Undead ghouls from all of the fallen, use a Teleportation Circle to get them to a small town in Japan, kill and eat everyone there, eventually turning everyone in the entire country into ghouls. Now that you've won, you have plenty of time to cast True Resurrection for all of the American servicemen who bravely fought for your side as part of your undead legion. Sounds like the premise of a fun movie, now that I think about it.

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    Default Re: Real-life brain teaser: Pearl Harbor

    I like the 1st level Bard idea. Can't think of a low level solution that would have better results.
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    Default Re: Real-life brain teaser: Pearl Harbor

    Quote Originally Posted by Person_Man View Post
    I don't know, I think having someone appear would just freak them out. Casting the spell just requires me talking, and maybe waving my arms around a little. Maybe I should cast Repulsion and Protection from Arrows on myself before I Teleport over?
    Ideally, you should be invisible or should use magic to disguise yourself as a Japanese officer.

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    Default Re: Real-life brain teaser: Pearl Harbor

    I'm thinking more alone the lines of a 10th level wizard with his fully charged made it myself wand of mirage arcana casting it all over Pearl Harbor to make it look like empty land. Sure the people are still visible but only if they are outdoors. And the ships are probably big enough to count as structures that can have their appearance changed into whales.

    Then after a few minutes spent protecting the base, use Sleet Storm on the decks of the carriers, along with Shatter on the braking lines, to insure that the planes cant land. Also solid fog will mess with planes on approach since it will slow them and throw them off target with the carrier.
    Liberal use of Cloudkill on the sub's air circulation systems should take care of them. Of course using Overland Flight to get to all these targets.
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    Default Re: Real-life brain teaser: Pearl Harbor

    Quote Originally Posted by MaxKaladin View Post
    Ideally, you should be invisible or should use magic to disguise yourself as a Japanese officer.
    If you can teleport you can certainly cast Alter Self, so no worries. Finding the commander though - what divination spell will do that?

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    Default Re: Real-life brain teaser: Pearl Harbor

    Quote Originally Posted by MaxKaladin View Post
    There are three problems with most of these spells: range, area and targeting.

    1. Range: World War II planes flew at speeds of hundreds of miles per hour. In D&D terms, 200mph would be something like a movement rate of 1760. At speeds like that, a plane could pass in and out of range of most spells in a single round. Further, the battle took place over an area of several square miles. The vast majority of that battlefield is going to be out of range for any given wizard, even with a fly spell.

    2. Area: Likewise, compared to the size of the battlefield, most D&D spells affect a very tiny area. You really can't target multiple planes with a spell simply because they'll be too far apart. The ships being targeted are hundreds of feet long, so protecting any one of them will require many castings of most spells to protect the whole thing.

    3. Targeting: The space the battle is taking place in is vast in D&D terms. Placing a stationary effect like a wall of force for planes to run into has a very low chance of success simply because there is so much space for the planes to fly in. Its not a matter of doging, but simply of the low chance of a pilot choosing to fly through just exactly the few dozen feet of air you happened to put a wall of force (or whatever) in.

    I don't think it's possible to bring down all (or even most) of the planes before they can carry out their mission.
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    Default Re: Real-life brain teaser: Pearl Harbor

    Quote Originally Posted by MaxKaladin View Post
    Nagumo. Yamamoto was in Japan during the attack. He planned it, but it was executed by Nagumo.

    In any case, I'd worry about the reactions of everyone else present when that happened...
    Yes, and it's likely that many of the people you'd subsequently be ordering about (assuming you have no trouble subduing the bridge - a safe bet I'd say) will have been in radio contact and heard the whole thing. Potential problems!

    I'd also worry about the reactions of the attack force when you impersonate/dominate their leader into giving a retreat order. I also don't know much about WWII-era japanese logistics...can the Admiral actually patch himself through to the entire force that quickly?

    Remember, the attack has already started.

    If you can only contact various sub-commanders, some of them might conceivably refuse to comply. It would depend on discipline, morale, etc.

    That said, this is one of the more practical plans for a single character IMO. Although the "fight as best you can, then lead the zombie invasion of the Japanese homeland" plan is also pretty sweet.
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