How do I throw my PCs in prison?

[Trekkin]

I'm working on a Spelljammer-esque campaign at the moment, and I'd like to start it by having the PCs taken captive in a slave raid so they can break out, take over their captors' ship at the head of an army of escaped captives and get a whirlwind introduction to the mechanics of interstellar travel via magic rocket throne. Sort of an underdog story.

The only problem is that my players have, as a whole, had bad experiences with despair and no-win situations in games run by our rather ham-handed former DM. With that in mind:

1. Should I run a prologue where they actually get captured? It might let them get comfortable with the combat mechanics and have fun knocking heads together, but predestining a battle feels railroady.

2. How should I handle gear? Letting them buy full WBL worth of gear and then letting them find those items onboard ship feels artificial, but a flat inventory of Stuff On A Boat might unexpectedly disadvantage some character classes.

3. Is there anything in general I should know about running fights against enemies the PCs probably won't out-and-out defeat (but can presumably still materially affect?)

[BWR]

I confess to a certain dislike for "it all starts with you guys being captured" stories myself, but the only way to really have this work, ime, is having a cut scene with the capture then having them start play with the prison break. If the players can't come up with a plan themselves, have some other prisoners start a riot and win, with or without the PCs' help.
Gear, don't feel like artificially putting in more gear than the ship has just to fulfill some odd desire to follow WBL or being fair to PCs. For all my dislike of the captured scenario, getting by on nothing but the shirt on your back can be quite fun if done correctly, and a ship should have some stuff. Perhaps not full plates and heavy shields, but rations and ropes should be fine. If you really want to be fair, warn the players ahead of time that they can't buy gear for a while and don't get starting gear for some reason. That should be enough.

[Mr Beer]

If you have an unbeatable fight in the game, it's better to put it into the back story IMO. I'd much start the game being told 'OK you guys got captured, here's where you are' than have to play out a fight that I cannot possibly win.

[Hypername]

There doesn't even need to be a fight. Some poison can do just that.
The slavers poisoned the water/wine so your PCs went to sleep. They took them as captives and locked them in jail, and from there begins your story.

[Surpriser]

I actually once wrote an intro scene for an adventure that sadly never happened. It started with the PCs waking up with a blinding headache to the voice of someone telling them that they unfortunately selected the wrong drinking buddies. But hey, there are currently x openings in the crew (where x is the number of PCs), so this is their chance of a lifetime (which will end apruptly should they refuse)!

Unwinnable fights, especially those were the PCs survive and get captured at the end, are extremely tricks and will often go horribly wrong. What if some PC decides to rather die than surrender? Or decides that the other guys should die - and somehow succeeds?
Especially for a campaign start, the cutscene approach is both a lot easier and usually feels less like being cheated for the players.

Concerning gear, there is a very easy way to ensure that everyone gets some gimmicks: Let some of the pirates mirror the PCs. If they have a wizard, oh look - the captain's second in command has a faible for robes and carries that big book around. Sure enough, your players won't get their magic-mart wishlist, but at least the essentials can be covered that way.
A warning that they might not be able to get the exact items they want should suffice to avoid builds that really depend on some specific item.

[snowblizz]

Concerning gear, there is a very easy way to ensure that everyone gets some gimmicks: Let some of the pirates mirror the PCs. If they have a wizard, oh look - the captain's second in command has a faible for robes and carries that big book around. Sure enough, your players won't get their magic-mart wishlist, but at least the essentials can be covered that way.
A warning that they might not be able to get the exact items they want should suffice to avoid builds that really depend on some specific item.

In fact, if they have been captured the captors could/would be rocking the players' gear. Preferably(?) not the videogame classic, all-your-gear-in-a-chest-in-prison-with-you. In other words it's pretty likely some of the PC's gear should exist in the area. It should allow a combination of giving people what they want or need (or as much as the DM feels like anyway), but letting them work for it, "earning" their stuff.

[Mr.Moron]

Personally I'd just start them in jail. However if you want to have the capture "on-screen" There isn't any reason to begin without them on board for the concept, my intro for this game as you want to run it would probably read something like this:

"I'd like to run the game about having magic ship and traveling, using a ship that's been stolen from a bad of evil slavers. I'd like to open the game elsewhere just to get an intro to the characters and establish NPCs, then have PCs captured in a slave raid. We can kind of play this out as a no-win battle, or just hand wave it in exposition - whichever you guys like. The first adventure will focus on the Jailbreak and ship takeover and what happens from there will depend on exactly how things played out during the jailbreak. After that, it's pretty much whatever you guys wanna do with your new ship, though chances are you'll have some new enemies you need to consider.

As for gear, pick out your stuff according to <starting item guidelines> and that will all be stuff you can find during the jailbreak, or once you capture the ship and really have a chance comb through it. Let me know if you have any questions or concerns and we can try work through those before we start."

If you've got a central conceit that figures early on but might not be everyone's cup of tea but it out there early on. This is something that's going to happen within the first 30 minutes of the first session. It's a central part of the campaigns premise, it shouldn't be a surprise.

[goto124]

'Let your players know' is nice.

I initially read the thread title as 'How do I throw my players in prison?'

[DontEatRawHagis]

I always make sure when my players are "captured" to make sure they know their is an out.

And that if someone is "enslaved" I let them know up front that it is temporary.

For instance a Noble threatens the players with Enslavement if they don't help him with a problem. They won't be enslaved if they help him, but if they don't they give up that right. Good setting up for a villain for the players to hate on.

Another. The City Guard arrest the players for burning down the Tavern. They will be thrown into jail without their gear and the City Court will figure out fines/recompense that the party will need to do.

This last one is being used in my current game. They know that the Guard are just temporarily holding them and that they will be charged the following day to perform a quest as recompense.

[JAL_1138]

Q: How do I throw my PCs in prison?
A: Open the cell, put the PCs in, close and lock the cell door.

[Eisenheim]

be open with them about the premise of the game, as described in your OP, let them build characters that will fit with that premise and enjoy it, and then start the action with them in jail trying to break out.

The problem with capture scenarios is that some players often feel like either their mechanical or RP characterization is short-circuited by it, so avoid the problem by being open with the players from the get go, don't make them build in an information vacuum and then toss them in jail, and definitely don't start before they're captured: D&D lacks a mutually satisfying mechanic for guaranteeing capture or similar mishaps. You wind up either stacking the fight unfairly or giving the players too much chance to escape your desired scenario.

[Studoku]

Be honest with the players about the premise (they're in prison). Then, instead of faffing around with the capture scenario, start with them in prison.

Actually playing out the capture serves nothing since the result is preordained. At best, you open with the players having little agency of their own. At worst, you have to jump through hoops to ouright force the result you want instead of escapes/deaths.

This also means the characters don't need to worry about how they meet. They could quite easily come from completely different backgrounds and be captured in separate events. Imprisoning characters usually forces them to work together.

[Trekkin]

Personally I'd just start them in jail. However if you want to have the capture "on-screen" There isn't any reason to begin without them on board for the concept, my intro for this game as you want to run it would probably read something like this:

"I'd like to run the game about having magic ship and traveling, using a ship that's been stolen from a bad of evil slavers. I'd like to open the game elsewhere just to get an intro to the characters and establish NPCs, then have PCs captured in a slave raid. We can kind of play this out as a no-win battle, or just hand wave it in exposition - whichever you guys like. The first adventure will focus on the Jailbreak and ship takeover and what happens from there will depend on exactly how things played out during the jailbreak. After that, it's pretty much whatever you guys wanna do with your new ship, though chances are you'll have some new enemies you need to consider.

I had forgotten to mention that I was assuming that I'd explain everything out-of-game. My concern was more that even if they know intellectually that their captivity is temporary, it's still a bit of a wrench to actually play through it.



Thanks for all the help, though, everyone; this feels much less daunting now!

Incidentally, the whole reason I started with the capture plot was that it fulfills three of the main things my players want out of the campaign. They want, as they described it to me, a city-builder campaign; that is, they'd like the central thread running through the campaign to be their stewardship of a group of people, albeit not necessarily a conventional town. They would also like an episodic planet-of-the-week campaign, which in my opinion fits well with some sort of travelogue. Lastly, they would like to avoid a lot of up-front exposition.

It seemed to me that the most natural and exciting way to accomplish all three would be to have a bunch of space-clueless escapees elect them their leaders, and from there it followed logically that them actually being captured would let them build whatever character archetypes they might like to play without concern for why whatever class they want would be in space.

[Sith_Happens]

The only problem is that my players have, as a whole, had bad experiences with despair and no-win situations in games run by our rather ham-handed former DM.

...

*notices username*



...Yeah, unless you've had another "former DM" since the one I assume you're talking about, I would definitely tread carefully.

1. Should I run a prologue where they actually get captured? It might let them get comfortable with the combat mechanics and have fun knocking heads together, but predestining a battle feels railroady.

You just answered your own question. If you're going to start the PCs in prison, then actually start them in the prison. As soon as you try to say "Here's how you got here" you open the floodgates of "Well what if I [insert any of the sorts of things players are wont to do here]?"

2. How should I handle gear? Letting them buy full WBL worth of gear and then letting them find those items onboard ship feels artificial, but a flat inventory of Stuff On A Boat might unexpectedly disadvantage some character classes.

I like snowblizz's idea best:

In fact, if they have been captured the captors could/would be rocking the players' gear. Preferably(?) not the videogame classic, all-your-gear-in-a-chest-in-prison-with-you. In other words it's pretty likely some of the PC's gear should exist in the area. It should allow a combination of giving people what they want or need (or as much as the DM feels like anyway), but letting them work for it, "earning" their stuff.

The PCs presumably had gear of some sort on their persons when they were captured, and if they're fresh catches then the slavers probably haven't had time to sell any of it off. Which means you can have your players pick out their own starting gear that they then find on the ship without it feeling artificial, because it was theirs originally so of course it's on the ship somewhere to be found.

3. Is there anything in general I should know about running fights against enemies the PCs probably won't out-and-out defeat (but can presumably still materially affect?)

Make it absolutely clear that yes, they can materially affect the foes in question, even if that means literally hitting them over the head with that fact. Since these are apparently the same people you've gamed with historically you unfortunately have basically no leeway in that regard; present something remotely resembling an unwinnable situation and their conditioning is likely to kick in, and no one wants that.

[BayardSPSR]

Backing up the people saying "let them know" or "start them there." You don't want people assuming they're doing things wrong because they end up in a cell halfway through the first session. If their being imprisoned doesn't have anything to do with their actions, don't link it to their actions.

"We're in prison... but we're not anymore!" is usually more fun than "we were free... but now we're in prison." It's all about where you choose to start.

If you want to have the raid as an intro to rules, you could try running it as a flashback once it's been established that they're all captured.

Gear-wise, you could let all of them specify one or two things that they want to be on the boat, and them make everything else random. Having items the characters owned in use by their guards could motivate them to get those items back.

[Sith_Happens]

If you want to have the raid as an intro to rules, you could try running it as a flashback once it's been established that they're all captured.

Oh no, that's at least ten times worse. The party will inevitably manage to not all get captured and then you either have to declare the whole thing non-canon, or retcon everything you've already run, or somehow justify a time paradox.

[veti]

It seemed to me that the most natural and exciting way to accomplish all three would be to have a bunch of space-clueless escapees elect them their leaders, and from there it followed logically that them actually being captured would let them build whatever character archetypes they might like to play without concern for why whatever class they want would be in space.

Nothing you've mentioned gives any reason to play out them being captured. And as many people, including yourself, have pointed out, a fight with a preordained conclusion is lame at best. Especially when that conclusion is as specific as "you're all subdued and captured."

Let them buy WBL's worth of gear if you like. Then start the campaign in jail, completely gear-less, and find their stuff in a container nearby once they get out. Either that, or let them take that much gear from their guards. It's a cliched time-honoured starting scenario.

[BayardSPSR]

Oh no, that's at least ten times worse. The party will inevitably manage to not all get captured and then you either have to declare the whole thing non-canon, or retcon everything you've already run, or somehow justify a time paradox.

Unless you only go through enough of it to get familiar with the rules, and then fade back to present.

I guess that wouldn't be very satisfying for the players, though. Yeah. It might be better to just have then learn the rules as they come up, without the tutorial mission.

[Trekkin]

...

*notices username*



...Yeah, unless you've had another "former DM" since the one I assume you're talking about, I would definitely tread carefully.

Indeed I have; this one wasn't nearly as bad. It's more that we have equally valid but mutually exclusive ideas about what makes a good game, so he's going to DM for the people who like narrative-heavy, politically complex games and I'm going to run something rather looser for the people who want to roll some dice and drink with their friends for a couple hours a week.

That said, Chief Circle is a big reason why I was so paranoid about trying this without running everything, even the bits that seem obvious to me, past other people. I have ample motivation to get this as right as possible.

[eleazzaar]

Definitely start the story after they have been captured, but let them just tell you how their capture went down-- it saves time and gives them some controll over the failure, and lets them build their characters. One might want to be seduced, one go down under a pile of bodies, while a third might surrender instantly.

[Magikeeper]

If it is a major concern, why not have them start off having already made it to the ship's armory to get their stuff back? That is to say, have both getting captured and breaking out be backstory. In fact, let them tell you how they did it (from the perspective of "we are starting with you in the armory of a ship in dire need of taking over. How did you get to this point?").

Also, if magically regaining their own gear irks you, maybe have whatever the players' put down on their PC sheets represent what they found in the armory rather than what their PCs hypothetically had pre-capture? No difference to the players (unless one of them really wanted a family heirloom or something), but they didn't find *their* stuff IC. They just found whatever their players wanted them to find. :P

[Segev]

What if you pitch it such that they're given a letter of marque, and the suggested gambit to get their ship is to pull a gambit where they allow themselves to be "captured" by villains known for shanghaiing people. That way, they can plan their heist in advance to cover the equipment issue, and they go in on their own terms.

[Broken Twin]

1. I would never run a battle where the results are predetermined. It's just not that fun, for anyone involved. You could just go with you wake up as slaves, this is how it happened, but what I personally prefer is to ask the players how and why they were captured. Were they in the wrong place at the wrong time? Owed a debt that was collected on? Sold out by an old friend? This can work either as a group or as individuals.

2. Not really sure why it would feel artificial. If slavers capture a people with decent gear on them, they're not going to leave it behind when they could use it themselves. Then as the party takes the ship, they slowly recover their gear. The mage's spellbook is on the captain's bookcase, a guard is using the rogue's favorite shortsword... stuff like that.


3. When it comes to setting up an unfair fight, I prefer to make sure the players have at least one achievable objective. Even if that objective is just escaping intact.

[Storm_Of_Snow]

Are they pre-existing characters or brand new ones? If the latter, what level are you starting the PCs at? The lower they are, the less equipment they'll have, and the easier it is to have them arm themselves with whatever they scavenge.

2. Not really sure why it would feel artificial. If slavers capture a people with decent gear on them, they're not going to leave it behind when they could use it themselves. Then as the party takes the ship, they slowly recover their gear. The mage's spellbook is on the captain's bookcase, a guard is using the rogue's favorite shortsword... stuff like that.

So long as it's better/nicer looking/whatever reason, then yes, the slavers could use some of the PCs gear. Although to make the most of it, you'd probably need to have the slavers flaunt it in the PCs faces for a couple of sessions.

Alternatively, their gear could be stored away waiting to be sold off at the next port, or maybe the slavers already sold some of it, but there's a cargo hold full of silks/spices/other valuable goods that the players can sell off at the next port and buy replacement equipment with.

And they then get to know a merchant who's potentially not too fussy about the real owners of any goods the PCs happen to bring him or her.

[Lord Torath]

Hey, Trekkin! Welcome back to the RPG forum!

I'm probably not telling you anything you don't already know, but I'll say it anyway.

I'd recommend making the PC's capture be pure exposition. Because really, the most interesting part is when they break out, not how they got there. Start the first session at the moment their chance for escape occurs. And make it obvious. I've read horror stories here on the board about PCs sitting in their cells waiting for anything to happen, trying to find the "key action" the DM came up with that will let them escape.

The Giant himself asked why you (the generic "you", not you, Trekkin) would write about a place if it's not the most interesting point in the history of that place. Similarly, why would you want to play in a time and place where nothing interesting is happening. "You noticed about a week ago that the cement around the bars in your cell was cracking and weak. Now, for the first time you can remember, there are no guards in the area. Time to break out!" And don't let a failed strength check leave them trapped.

[Slipperychicken]

1. Should I run a prologue where they actually get captured? It might let them get comfortable with the combat mechanics and have fun knocking heads together, but predestining a battle feels railroady.

2. How should I handle gear? Letting them buy full WBL worth of gear and then letting them find those items onboard ship feels artificial, but a flat inventory of Stuff On A Boat might unexpectedly disadvantage some character classes.

3. Is there anything in general I should know about running fights against enemies the PCs probably won't out-and-out defeat (but can presumably still materially affect?)

Just start the campaign in jail right before the breakout, maybe work with the players for exposition on how they got there, have the PCs' most necessary equipment (like a spellbook or weapon) stuck in an "evidence room" or looted by a guard ("you recognize your spellbook sitting on the counter behind the guard..."), and/or maybe have some comparable equipment used by guards. Like the PC might not have a +1 Awesome Fullplate, but he might find some scale mail or half-plate on the guards.

[King of Casuals]

one time when I was DMing, the ship that the PCs were on got attacked by sharks, and then pirates. The pirates captured most of the party, except for the goblin rogue that hid inside a giant shark's stomach (I didnt plan this, but it worked out perfectly). The pirates threw the PCs into a holding cell, while the rogue had a cool solo-stealth mission to rescue the party.
So basically here's my suggestions:
•Don't plan out any way for your PCs to escape; just let them figure out a way on their own. Dont let it be too easy, but making it too hard might convince them that you don't want them to eacape.
•For equipment, remove all of their equipment at first, letting them take gear off of the guards that they defeat. Saying stuff like "the sword disintigrates when you touch it" will infuriate your PCs, and letting them use improvised weapons makes them feel resourceful. That being said, put your PCs' gear no further than halfway through the prison, as going without your gear for a long period of time can be annoying.

[runeghost]

Don't run the fight. Instead, have the PCs tell you how they ended up in prison.

Tell them up front, "You're all starting in jail, captives of [these guys], stripped of your gear. Before we start, I want you to come up with the circumstances of your character's capture" (and possibly why they haven't been able to escape yet).

Some of them will come up with stories of how badass they were. Some will want shared backgrounds. Others will try to sneak some gear in somehow. Unless it totally wrecks your scenario, let them. You're planning on them getting out soon enough, anyway, right?

[WarKitty]

be open with them about the premise of the game, as described in your OP, let them build characters that will fit with that premise and enjoy it, and then start the action with them in jail trying to break out.

Don't run the fight. Instead, have the PCs tell you how they ended up in prison.

Tell them up front, "You're all starting in jail, captives of [these guys], stripped of your gear. Before we start, I want you to come up with the circumstances of your character's capture" (and possibly why they haven't been able to escape yet).

This. I actually did this as the starting premise of my current campaign - "you're all captured and marked for next night's human sacrifice, now tell me how your character got there." It worked quite well. It gives the players some feeling of agency still and avoids any issues with them not getting captured where they should have been.

Oh, be sure to give them plenty of loot once they get out, to make up for not having any starting gear.

[Segev]

Don't run the fight. Instead, have the PCs tell you how they ended up in prison.

Tell them up front, "You're all starting in jail, captives of [these guys], stripped of your gear. Before we start, I want you to come up with the circumstances of your character's capture" (and possibly why they haven't been able to escape yet).

Some of them will come up with stories of how badass they were. Some will want shared backgrounds. Others will try to sneak some gear in somehow. Unless it totally wrecks your scenario, let them. You're planning on them getting out soon enough, anyway, right?

This is probably the best advice. You know, for your plot, that you need them to start there. Make it their job to tell you how they got there. It will make them come up with exposition and with their own ideas about how to circumvent whatever powers they'd normally use to avoid it.

One of the best GMs I've played under (and one who has run many, many games in almost as many systems) usually starts games like that, actually: "You are all going to start in such-and-such a situation. Tell me how you got there."