Melee Cleric Build

[Rowanomicon]

I'm going to be building a Cleric who I want to work well in melee (but still have usefull casting and rebuking) and have a couple basic questions:

What race (no HD, LA +1 max) should I use (SRD, Core, MM3, Draconomicon, maybe other;I'm not sure yet)?

Is it worth taking 1 or 2 levels in Fighter?

What Feats should I take?

What Domains should I choose (I was thiking Str, and War)?

Any and all imput is apreciated.

[Ranis]

Get War and Destruction. Pick up Extra Smiting from BoED. Carry a Tower Shield and a Bastard Sword. Kill things.

[Starsinger]

You don't need a level of fighter. Divine Power gives you BAB equal to your overall character level. You may wish to look into Extend spell or sudden extend spell to make divine power last longer. The only reason I could see for a fighter dip would be feats.

[Starbuck_II]

Get War and Destruction. Pick up Extra Smiting from BoED. Carry a Tower Shield and a Bastard Sword. Kill things.

Extra Smite is in Complete Warrior actually.

Tower shield work give penalty to hit (also not proficency).

Divine Metamagic Extend would help your self bufss last longer.

[clericwithnogod]

Travel, Celerity, Competition and War are nice domains.

The feats from two fighter levels aren't worth the spell levels you give up, but it really isn't that much of a hindrance either. I've done it to get the character to fit my concept and not regretted it. The only thing that's irksome is pushing back Divine Might for two levels.

If you're willing to drop two spell levels, you might want to consider a Goliath Barbarian1/ClericX. With the Celerity domain and a Mithril Breastplate, you're running around with a 50' move rate. Still not technically worth the two spell levels, but with the Competition domain and Zeal, you can be sure of getting into the fight when you had to take a round or two to buff first.

Depending on what levels you'll be playing at, your DM's combat tactics and encounter pacing, and whether there is someone else picking up the healing, you can either go with Quicken Spell to stack buffs or pick up combat feats. I'd go with a two-handed weapon, since you want to be able to use your off-hand for casting (which limits you to a Light Shield or Buckler - and a Buckler can be used with a two-handed weapon if you don't mind a -1 attack penalty and losing the AC bonus on rounds you attack with the weapon). If you don't take fighter levels or the war domain, consider getting proficiency with the spiked chain (depending on what feats you pursue, this might be a given). Improved Buckler Defense lets you keep your Buckler bonus on rounds you attack with a weapon.

Dragonslayer is a nice PrC for at least a single level, adding both a caster level and the Aura of Courage special ability. Pious Templar is nice for a couple levels if you want to delay a non cleric casting advancement until later in the game, as the Paladin spell list has added some nifty swift spells from supplements.

[Tor the Fallen]

Swinging a bastard sword in one hand for spending a feat on it isn't a very good move. Better to get metamagic feats, or power attack. Power attack+two hand a greatsword (or great axe if you be castin' enlarge).

War and destruction aren't as great domains as, say, luck, travel, or magic. Destruction's smite ability is only once/day, and the bonus spells require melee touch attacks, which you can already prepare as a normal cleric. The reroll ability of Luck is great, as are the domain spells. Better than destruction's, anyway. Magic is good because you can cast utility wizard spells from items as a wizard of one half your cleric level. The bonus domain spells aren't terrific for combat, though. Spell turning and the +8 resistance bonus is pretty good. Travel is great, as its special ability lets you get out of grapples, across any impediments enemy casters may throw at you as a smasher, and you get fly, teleport, dimension door, and longstrider.

I would say travel & luck. Luck is good for rerolling save or die spells you auto-fail, and travel fixes the maneuverability problem of tanks.

For healing, be good or neutral so you can channel positive energy. Hold onto a couple of your level 2 or 3 spells, so you can play bandaid if someone in battle takes a serious hit. Otherwise, have every character spend 750 of their own gold to buy themselves a wand of CLW, then spam that after a partiuclarly injurious battle.

[Rowanomicon]

OK, I'm pretty sure I'm just going to go with Cleric, no Fighter (that's what I was leaning towards anwyay).

In terms of feats I'm thinking Improved Buckler Defence (I like the 2-handed weapons), Quicken Spell, and Extend Spell (not neccessarily in that order).

As for Domains: I'm still torn between War, Death, Destruction, Luck, and Travel.

I don't know whether to channel poitive or negative energy. It's not as usefull being able to spontaniously cast Inflict spells as it is to cast Cure spells. However, I'd rather Rebuke/Controll than Turn/Destroy.
Maybe if I took the Healing domain... the +1 caster level for healing spells would be usefull, but all the Healing domain spells are already Cleric spells.

[Hario]

Pick up Fist of Raziel PrC from the BoED it has full BAB and 9/10th Caster progression, you need to be LG and need servant of the heavens, but its totally worth it, 18 BAB and 19 CL at lvl 20 is extrememly good, Otherwise take Radient servant of Pelor, yes it has 1/2 BAB but you are better in battle vs undead and you can take Persistant Spell from Complete arcane and divine metamagic (Complete Divine) which uses turn attempt in place of spell level adjustment for metamagics, you use night sticks (Libris mortis) for 7500 gain +4 turning attempts so you can persist spells like greater magic weapon, righteous might, and Divine power/favor all day long.

[Tor the Fallen]

Death domain is weak, weak, weak. Being a necromancer isn't very good, tends to be gp intensive, and is hella boring for everyone else waiting for you to roll 2 dozen misses with your skeleton horde. Use your turn attempts to fuel divine metamagic, instead.

Travel, luck and spontaneous casting of heal.
Don't bother with improved buckler defense- get an animated shield later and hit it with magic vestment.

[Rowanomicon]

Well I don't have BoED so I can't use Raziel unless it's also online or my DM has BoED. Same with Persistant Spell and Night Sticks.

I don't want to take Radient Servant or Pelor, that's just not what I want for this character. (LG wasn't exactly where I was going with this either, but...)

I'd like to use Devine Metamagic; it's probably on CrystalKeep; I hope my DM lets me use it.

Good call on the Death Domain.
Travel and Luck, eh? Hmm...

I think good call on the IBD aswell.

[Tor the Fallen]

Divine Metamagic + Persistant Spell here.

[daggaz]

I'm playing a dwarven cleric in an eberron game right now, who at the moment is kicking some serious melee arse. Core only, here is my build..

My domains are War (only took this so I could get weapon proficiency in a 2handed tripping weapon. DONT take war unless you are specifically going for a battlefield control weapon) and Travel. I am SO SO SO glad I took travel.

My feats are:Weapon Proficiency: Halberd (war domain)
Weapon Focus: Halberd (war domain)
Power Attack (a must have for any melee'er)
Combat Expertise
Improved Trip
Improved Initiative (could have taken quicken spell here but I think I will just wait till my next feat for that, when I have more spells anyhow).

So as a dwarf, I have staying power (tons of hps, good saves against spells and poisons etc..), I have stability so I pretty much own anything I try to trip, and I can dish out the most damage hand to hand than anybody in our group. Plus with Travel, I can dimdoor, teleport, up my moves by ten (longstrider) and I get freedom of movement like 15 rounds/ day which rules.

Taking any fighter levels is a complete waste of your time, your spells are what make you a battlefield stud, and you can get enough feats otherwise to have some fun still.

As for channeling, go for positive energy unless you are working more on style. Spontaneous heals for the win. I have a six in charisma, so one turn attempt a day... but as I dont have access to divine metacheese, and considering turning is weak anyhow, I dont really care. I turn things with my axe.

[Annarrkkii]

You want to be the commander of undead hordes, be a warlock.

For a melee cleric, preparation time is CRUCIAL. You may want to consider grabbing Brew Potion, so you can keep yourself eternally stocked on potions for your key low-level buffs—Shield of Faith, in particular—and so you can provide your compañeros with healing potions so you can save your own standard actions. Selfish, but wise. War domain is vital, as it grants you Proficiency and Weapon Focus for free—two bonus feats. For your other, Fire can actually be a surprisingly good choice, as it offers some excellent battefield regulation spells, and has good flavor. Protection can help, as well, should you need a bit of a respite from combat, and Strength's smiting ability is pretty useful for a one-hit bruise.

That said, you'll lack the Fighter's feat chain—you'll get mad casting skillz in exchange, but still—so it's not a great idea to follow some of the more lengthy chains, like Power Attack or TWF. Power Attack is still a worthwhile feat, especially if you're human, but you might want to consider some useful shield feats. Wielding a bastard sword/waraxe or a longsword/battleaxe and bearing a magic shield with Shield Specialization makes you pretty solid at low levels. If you want to further explore your shieldocity, Shield Block from Heroes of Battle is a good bet, and if your fellow tanks use shields, as well, you can grab Shield Wall to get an extra +2 AC. If you're a dwarf, you'll need to prioritize your feats a bit more carefully, but the CON bonus and stability will let you hold your ground much better, and you won't be losing any speed.

If you should multiclass, and aren't worried about the lost CL (which are tough to give up, but you can really increase your tanking with just a few stray levels), consider checking out Crusader from ToB. A few well-placed Crusader levels can get you Martial Spirit, a stance that allows you to heal yourself or an ally 2 damage every time you hit an enemy, Shield Block (the maneuver) let's you add 4+your shield's AC bonus to an adjacent ally's square, and Iron Guard Glare is a stance that makes enemies you threaten take a -4 to attack. And that's just level 1 and 2 maneuvers. At higher levels, Doom Charge and Radiant Charge are both excellent combat openers from the Devoted Spirit school. White Raven offers an assortment of AoO-negating strikes, which will be exceedingly useful for you in melee, as it will allow you to bruise a foe with one, and then cast without having to worry about provoking AoOs. The earliest one available is Douse the Flames, a level 1, but it only lasts a single round.

Another equally awesome multiclass option (but, sadly, only if you're human or a cleric-favored-class race), is to jack anywhere from 3 to 8 levels of Knight. Bulwark of Defense, a +1 to your shield bonus, Mounted Combat, Call to Battle, and a few other choice abilities are all great abilities and help with battlefield control.

If you go with Dwarf or Human, Fighter is a plausible multiclass, but for no more than 2 levels. That way, you keep your 9th-level spells, and get two bonus feats. If you want to multiclass more heavily and sacrfice spellslinging, that's a flavor call you can make, but it won't pay off quite as well. With those two Fighter levels, you can plausibly arrange yourself for a Power Attacking build, or thickly beef up your shielding abilities.

What ECL are you starting at?

[Matthew]

I wouldn't bother with a Two Handed Weapon at Level 1. Get a Heavy Shield and a Melee Weapon and dump the Shield later on. If you really need to cast a Spell whilst engaged in Melee, just drop your weapon. You won't be considered Unarmed, as you have a Shield, which is also a weapon. You need AC more than DB at Levels 1-3, generally speaking, and you don't have enough BAB to be able to take advantage of Power Attack. You could always carry a Two Handed Weapon in addition to these, if you really felt there were situations where it would be worth the trade off.

[BardicDuelist]

Divine Might and Divine Shield (and even Divine Vigor) provide good used for turning when not fight undead.
It's in CW if you can use it.

[PinkysBrain]

For a melee cleric, preparation time is CRUCIAL. You may want to consider grabbing Brew Potion, so you can keep yourself eternally stocked on potions for your key low-level buffs—Shield of Faith, in particular—and so you can provide your compañeros with healing potions so you can save your own standard actions.

Using potions for healing is too expensive at low level and useless in combat at higher levels. At higher levels out of combat healing is better done with wands.

If you go with Dwarf or Human, Fighter is a plausible multiclass, but for no more than 2 levels. That way, you keep your 9th-level spells, and get two bonus feats.

The same could be said if you get 9th level spells first and then take 2 fighter levels. The fighter levels make you weak all through the game, what happens at 20th is irrelevant.

That said, crusader is not a bad idea ... the Ruby Knight Vindicator is awesome fun.

[Tor the Fallen]

If you want to do combat damage, THF+power attck is the only way to go. Make sure to get power attack up at level 6, though, as before then it will only hurt more than it helps. Improved Bullrush+Shocktrooper are good to really pump your damage, but not necessary. Taking, say, a -8 to hit (all of which you can make up with cleric buffs/charge action) gives you 16 bonus damage. With a human with a flaw or two, you can get most of the feats you need by level 3- metamagic (persistant, quicken, whatever you prefer), divine metamagic, power attack, imp bullrush. Pick up shock trooper at 6 and leap attack at 9. Congratulations, you're as good as the fighter, and also a full caster.

Using potions for healing is too expensive at low level and useless in combat at higher levels. At higher levels out of combat healing is better done with wands.

He was suggesting getting brew pot so buffing only took a swift action; not for healing.

[Matthew]

If you want to do combat damage, THF+power attck is the only way to go.

Sure, but not at Level 1.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Two spells to DMM Persist:

Righteous Might and Divine Power.

Divine Power = full BAB, reguardless of any other considerations. This means you can RSoP and still have a BAB of +20 at level 20. You also get +6 Str and +1 hp/lv

Righteous Might increases you one size category. This gives you a +4 size bonus (stacks with the +6 from Divine Power), Natural Armor, and DR/Evil.

Congratulations, you're a better fighter than a Fighter, and you haven't impared your ability to heal and stuff.

[Annarrkkii]

Potion drinking, for no known reason, is a standard action. Go figure. Brew Potion, as I suggested and was shot down for earlier, is a worthwhile feat merely for pre-battle buffing without expending spell slots. 25 gp and 5 XP for a 1-minute potion of +2 to AC is nothing really that bad. Same for spells like Protection from X.

It is an undisputed fact that Power Attack is THE Damage Output Machine. However, it's also been used and abused to death, so let's try to be a little more creative :p

[BardicDuelist]

I like the divine feats in CW, simply because if I play a cleric, my DM refuses to throw undead at me. (but when I play a beguiler, rogue, or bard it is all I fight, go figure.)

[TheDarkOne]

... and leap attack at 9.

Clerics can't get leap attack till their 15th level feat. It requires 8 ranks in jump which is cross class for clerics.

Also, for melee cleric you're pretty much good with Cleric-20 and picking some combat feats, and cast buffs in battle. It's really not hard to do.

[Tor the Fallen]

Sure, but not at Level 1.

Oh yeah, forgot that clerics don't get that +1 BAB at level 1.

Clerics can't get leap attack till their 15th level feat. It requires 8 ranks in jump which is cross class for clerics.

...right.

[Rowanomicon]

Thanks for all the input.
I'm definitely considering it all, but I don't know what books my DM has or how easy going he is with online material.
I'm pretty sure I'm just going to go straight Cleric, no multiclass. I'm open to PrCs though.
I believe the starting ECL is 2.

[Toliudar]

I'll put in another vote for the travel domain. The special power is nothing special...until it absolutely saves your ass. And the spells keep being useful (longstrider, fly and teleport are all great to get a a melee specialist exactly where he/she needs to be).

In terms of races, it's hard to beat the standards: human and dwarf. At level 2, dwarf is arguably a bit better, but either is strong.

Sadly, I don't know of any prestige classes that are particularly great for Melee clerics. Sacred Exorcist is relatively easy to qualify for, and the chosen foe and dispel evil abilities can be nice.

[AmoDman]

Strength is better than destruction. Better granted power, better spells. Enlarge Person at 1st level, and hell, grab yourself an orb of power level 1, that's two enlarges a day. Travel is good too.

The Stormlord PrC is pretty rock if you wanna try it out, in Complete Divine. Other than that...straight Cleric is pretty powerful.