ToB Hobgoblin BBEG

[Charity]

Hi, I have just picked up the book of nine swords, and I want to remake the final encounter of the current adventure into a ToB class level Hobgoblin, just to shake them up a bit.
The party is -

Brb/Rge - 4
Clc - 4
Ftr - 4
Ftr/Brb -4
Sor - 5
Wiz - 4

I need a CR 5 or 6 odd encounter, it needs to be able to cope with the ubiquitous Glitterdust and scorching rays. Can you detail the manouvers as I am not all that familiar with ToB yet.

Oh and Ol, no peeking.

[Bears With Lasers]

Against a six-man party full of damage, no single BBEG is going to stand very long. You'd be better off with a group--try three CR 5 or 6 enemies: a Warblade, a Crusader, and a Swordsage!

The Moment of Perfect Mind maneuver allows a concentration check to replace a will save, which should negate glitterdust for the Swordsage and Warblade. The swordsage can have the Flame's Blessing stance, which gives him fire resistance, and the Crusader can heal everyone. The Warblade and Crusader can bounce White Raven Tactics off of each other, too (giving each other extra actions, basically).

[Charity]

Hmm you are right, but I have managed to kill them too many times though, (at least once each, and several times for some of them) so I am a bit reticent about chucking anything too nasty their way.
Perhaps two out of the three, with a couple of pets might be the thing, or maybe a CR 4 chucked in. Or some such

[Bears With Lasers]

Hmm.

What're the melee guys' setups? AC, AB?
What kind of spells do the wizard and sorcerer favor?

[Charity]

Rogue/ Brb has the highest AC about 24ish, the others are 20 (ish)
Ftr/Brb is going for whirlwind attack at lvl 5, so you know what he's got.
the other fighter, is your bog standard PA greatsword type
AB in the +8 region for all of them I'd say.
The Wiz is a fire variant from Unearthed arcana, fire stuff and MM mostly.
The Sorc has GD, Sleep, Scorching ray, Grease... you know the drill.

[Bears With Lasers]

Fair enough. And what-all sources do you have access to?

How much GP in items would be all right for the party to get hold of after they beat these guys?

[Charity]

I have PHB DMG UA most the completes, some of the race books, quite a bit really. Though I don't dip into them all that much.
Cash wise, due to their extravigant dying they are not doing too badly for money, so nothing too outragious, say 4-5K between them for the encounter, sound reasonable?

[Lapak]

Edited out to avoid jamming up the thread.

[Charity]

Er would it not be less confusing to have made your very own?
i don't mind, but making threads is pretty straight forward.

[Bears With Lasers]

I have PHB DMG UA most the completes, some of the race books, quite a bit really. Though I don't dip into them all that much.
Cash wise, due to their extravigant dying they are not doing too badly for money, so nothing too outragious, say 4-5K between them for the encounter, sound reasonable?

Okay, here goes:

Strongheart Kyrr, Hobgoblin Crusader 5. Stat priority: CON/STR/CHA/DEX/WIS/INT.
Feats: Stone Power, Extra Granted Maneuver
Maneuvers Known: (1) Crusader's Strike, Vanguard Strike, Leading the Attack, Charging Minotaur, Stone Bones, (2) Shield Block, (3) Revitalizing Strike.
Maneuvers Readied: Revitalizing Strike, Shield Block, Crusader's Strike, Vanguard Strike, Stone Bones.
Stances Known: Martial Spirit, Iron Guard's Glare. Start with Iron Guard's Glare, switch to Martial Spirit when healing is needed.
Equipment: Give'im some fullplate, a MW heavy mace or longsword, and a +1 heavy steel shield.


Warchief Varnath, Warblade 5/Crusader 1. Stat priority: STR/DEX/CON/INT/WIS/CHA.
Feats: Combat Expertise, Improved Trip, Stand Still, Combat Reflexes (WB 5)
Warblade Maneuvers Known: (1) Moment of Perfect Mind, Sudden Leap, Leading the Attack, (2) Disarming Strike, Battle Leader's Charge, (3) Iron Heart Surge
Warblade Maneuvers Readied: Moment of Perfect Mind, Sudden Leap, Iron Heart Surge, Disarming Strike
Crusader Maneuvers Known & Readied: (1) Crusader's Strike, Vanguard Strike, Stone Bones (2) Claw at the Moon, Stone Vise
Stances Known: Stonefoot Stance, Bolstering Voice, Martial Spirit (Crusader). Start out in Bolstering Voice, change to Stonefoot Stance for tripping, switch to Martial Spirit if you need the HP. This guy has two attacks a round, so most of his Warblade readied maneuvers are boosts/counters. He should be making AoOs, keeping people away with Improved Trip when it's likely to succeed, Stand Still when it's possible/will help.
Equipment: MW Guisarme, armor spikes on a MW breastplate, Potion of Bull's Strength, Potion of Enlarge Person


Sharaya Dar, Hobgoblin Swordsage 1/Psychic Warrior 2/Swordsage +3. Stat priority: DEX/WIS/CON/STR/CHA/INT. Use Partial BAB. Swordsage 1: Discipline Focus[Shadow Hand]; Swordsage 4: Insightful Strike[Tiger Claw]
Feats: Shadow Blade (1), Weapon Finesse (PW 1), Instant Clarity (PW 2), Two-Weapon Fighting (3), Adaptive Style (6).
If you allowed flaws, add the Shaky flaw for the Extra Readied Maneuver feat.
Swordsage Maneuvers Known: (1) Counter Charge, Burning Blade, Wolf Fang Strike, Sudden Leap, Moment of Perfect Mind, (2) Fire Riposte, Shadow Jaunt, (3) Mind Over Body, Devastating Throw
Maneuvers Readied: Devastating Throw, Burning Blade, Wolf Fang Strike, Mind Over Body, Shadow Jaunt.
Stances Known: Island of Blades, Child of Shadow. Use Island of Blades to gain flanking when you couldn't, but start in Child of Shadow; move for concealment and combine it with single-attack Strikes.
If things are looking bad, use Shadow Jaunt to get the heck out of there.
Equipment: (+1) Mithral Chain Shirt, two MW daggers, Potion of Cat's Grace.
Psionic Powers Known: Force Screen, Chameleon.


There's no caster, and I intentionally made them do less damage than I could have (i.e. no +4d6 damage maneuver). The Warblade is the battlefield controller and a solid offensive force, the Swordsage is mobile offense with a bunch of tricks, as well as a high AC (and serves as their scout), and the Crusader should have a good defense. They should prove a pretty tough and tactical encounter without being able to smash the party to bits in a few rounds with superior offense.


Strongheart Kyrr is the overall leader andof the group, although Warchief Varnath, Kyrr's younger brother, is (as his title says) the Warchief and tactician. Sharaya Dar is Kyrr's wife, and the scout. Give her Tumble, Jump, Concentration, Listen, Sense Motive, Hide, Move Silently. Give Strongheart Kyrr Diplomacy and Intimidate. Give the Warblade Intimidate, Jump, Balance, and Concentration.
The three are used to fighting together. Sharaya Dar scouts, cloaking herself with her Chameleon power; if enemies are coming, she returns to the group, which allows them to quaff their potions and, in Sharaya's case, manifest Force Screen, thereby giving herself a high AC. When in combat, Sharaya strikes from hiding, and then proceeds to flank with either Kyrr or Varnath. Kyrr keeps near Varnath, using Shield Block if things get bad, his Iron Guard's Glare stance making his allies harder to hit and his maneuvers refreshing the HP of whichever of the three needs it.
Sharaya uses Burning Blade in conjuction with Wolf Fang Strike or a regular full attack. Until she's exhausted her standard-action maneuvers, Child of Shadow stance grants her concealment (and thus keeps her even safer); she should be hard to hit, with tolerable damage output via TWFing with DEX to damage. She goes for the spellcasters first.
Kyrr uses Iron Guard's Glare, but switches to Martial Spirit if the group is running low on HP. If he switches to Martial Spirit, so does Varnath. Kyrr also makes good use of Stone Power to grant himself temporary HP; between that, a high CON, and his healing maneuvers, he should be fairly hard to take down. He doesn't have much in the way of offense, though
Varnath takes advantage of his reach and tripping/Stand Still to keep enemy melee types away. Iron Heart Surge will help deal with Glitterdust, Ray of Enfeebelement, et cetera. He has the most vulnerabilities of the group, though. Taking him down hard is probably the party's best option.


You can play these guys up or down as you need to. If the PCs are having problems, have Sharaya Dar use Shadow Jaunt to teleport out of the fight and run off, to warn others/get reinforcements/whatever. If the bad guys are too tough, have them waste more actions refreshing maneuvers, Intimidating their opponents, etc.
If the hobgoblins are losing and Varnath is alive, he will attempt to cover the retreat of the other two, and then flee himself. If Varnath goes down, Kyrr will tell Sharaya to run and cover her retreat. (She can return later for revenge.)

The hobgoblins are likely to be Lawful, and as such could probably be talked into an honorable surrender if things are going badly. Diplomacy checks as appropriate.

If you want to tone the group down, drop Varnath's Crusader level. He'll lose an attack, he'll lose his Crusader maneuvers, he'll lose a feat (Stand Still, probably).

[Annarrkkii]

Lapak, you may want to create your own thread for that one, as I think this was more of a specific thread for the OP.

If the PA thug likes to open with a charge, consider frontlining the hobgoblin swordsage and giving him Counter Charge, to send the guy stumbling past into flanking between the crusader and warblade. The Swordsage may want to open with flashing Sun + burning blade, staying in the fight long enough to make the enemy think he'll stay there. Then shadow jaunt past the frontline to the sorcerer and rough him up. A particularly cruel tactic is to Shadow Jaunt within a short distance of the sorcerer, preferably directly next to him, especially just behind him, to force him towards the melee. Then, when he withdraws, dart forward and use Soaring Throw to chuck him right into the mix. Make sure those that can have Moment of Perfect Mind on hand, just in case. It's rough to force the warblade to save on potentially potent strike in favor of a specific counter, but don't sweat it, as it's a lifesaver vs. most save-or-sucks. When your Will save is going from +4 to +11, you shouldn't complain.

Another excellent plan: the Crusader should be in Martial Spirit Stance, and the Warblade in Punishing Stance. If the swordsage fed them the PA monster, the guy's AC should still be reduced from his charge, and PA if he has Shock Trooper. While they flank, the thug won't stand a chance. If both are level 6, they have two attacks, and they each have 2 turns if they have both got White Raven Tactics on hand. That means 4 attacks before he gets his turn again. The Warblade should have Bonecrusher on hand—a solid, high-damage strike, and the Crusader can activate Crushing Vice (ideally), to pin the goon in place. Martial Spirit means two hp healed with each hit the Crusader throws in.

Be careful. 3 ToBs of 6th level could quite plausibly kill off a six-man lower ECL party.

[Legoman]

Bears, do you have a program that kicks out that neat little monster output, or are you just a typing/char-building fiend?

[Bears With Lasers]

Hmm? I just drew those guys up now. It's better than studying!

Edit: I'm presuming these guys will have weak hobgoblin and/or other minions and be the heads of the clan or somesuch. If they're on their own, "Warchief" makes less sense as a title.

Edit: obviously, doing something like giving your NPCs Shock Trooper is a bad idea--that'll pretty much always be a bad idea. You don't want enemies who do tons of damage, generally; someone might die.

[elliott20]

BWL, dude, those are some kickass adversaries.

[Bears With Lasers]

Thanks. :) That's the sort of thing I'd do for bad guys if I were to run a D&D game. Not too strong offensively, hard to simply disable, with relationships and the like.

Oh, incidentally--having psionic focus lets Sharaya expend it on Diamond Mind concentration checks; she can then get it back as a swift action via
Instant Clarity. Because of this, you may want to swap out Devastating Throw for Insightful Strike (take 15, add concentration check modifier, and that's your damage).

[Annarrkkii]

But Devastating Throw is so much fun tactically! Have 10-ft. deep pits around, or just throw the spellcasters into melee.

[elliott20]

Thanks. :) That's the sort of thing I'd do for bad guys if I were to run a D&D game. Not too strong offensively, hard to simply disable, with relationships and the like.

Oh, incidentally--having psionic focus lets Sharaya expend it on Diamond Mind concentration checks; she can then get it back as a swift action via
Instant Clarity. Because of this, you may want to swap out Devastating Throw for Insightful Strike (take 15, add concentration check modifier, and that's your damage).

I really need to just sit down with a psionic handbook sometime and get my Mario Bison villain out the door.

[Merlin the Tuna]

But Devastating Throw is so much fun tactically! Have 10-ft. deep pits around, or just throw the spellcasters into melee.

Incidentally... Some of the improved versions of Mighty Throw (Devastating Throw, for example) say "This maneuver functions like Mighty Throw, except as noted here." Exactly how much does that entail? For example, Mighty Throw notes that you can use your Dex or Str on the trip and that you get a +4 on the check. Devastating Throw just says that you make a trip with a +4 on the check. Can one use Dex on a Devastating Throw because DT doesn't specify otherwise, or does the presence of a near-identical-but-not-quite paragraph imply that MT's notes regarding the trip check do not apply?

[Charity]

Hmm? I just drew those guys up now. It's better than studying!

Edit: I'm presuming these guys will have weak hobgoblin and/or other minions and be the heads of the clan or somesuch. If they're on their own, "Warchief" makes less sense as a title.

Edit: obviously, doing something like giving your NPCs Shock Trooper is a bad idea--that'll pretty much always be a bad idea. You don't want enemies who do tons of damage, generally; someone might die.

Hobgoblins and goblins aplenty.
Many thanks Bears, they look pretty perfect, I love enemies with a plan.
I need to give them a mental run out as it were, to get familiar with em.

I don't want to be too hard on them Annarrkkii, they have a habit of dying all over the show, which I am not looking to perpetuate.