Reserve feats: What was WotC thinking?

[GMBeowulf]

Okay, so let me get this straight: For the low, low price of one feat, a wizard gets to use a supernatural ability (not affected by spell resistance, doesn't provoke an attack of opportunity) as many times as her wants, so long as he doesn't cast one of his high-level spells. Oh, and he gets a caster level bonus to certain types of spells as a bonus.

Given that a high-level wizard's only weaknesses are: 1) Running out of spells and 2) Spell Resistance, does it seem right that with only one feat you can ignore them both?

What the hell were the authors of Complete Mage thinking? That high-level wizards weren't broken enough?

[Luircin]

High-level wizards don't run out of spells. If they're running low, they pop into a magnificent mansion or a rope trick and crash for eight hours. Or two, if they're smart enough to wear a ring of sustenance.

From my experience, reserve feats tend to weaken wizards when used. During the round that they use a reserve feat, they're not altering the very nature of reality in six seconds. Also, reserve feats tend to just do damage or have minor effects, which tends to be much less game-breaking than, say... time stop.

[Bears With Lasers]

I am currently playing a 10th-level wizard with the Storm Bolt reserve feat.

I pretty much never use it except for style, anymore. Why? Because I have better things to do with my rounds. Throwing out 5d6 electrical damage is an absolute joke even compared to what I can do with my first- and second-level spells in most situations.

Reserve feats are okay at lower levels. At those, sacrificing a spell slot is a much bigger deal--giving up one of your two 2nd level spells is huge. At level 10, sacrificing a 2nd level spell slot isn't a very big deal... but then I'd be doing 2d6, which would be completely negligible. As is, I'm keeping Lightnign Leap in one of my three fifth-level slots, rather than, oh, Baleful Polymorph, for 5d6 lines of lightning I don't use every fight and that I never use when the situation is really dangerous.

Basically, this just means that wizards can actually roll a couple of damage dice rather than just standing around rolling 1d20 for their light crossbow, in mook fights which are going to be won anyway.

Reserve feats: they're really not that good, people.

[Hyfigh]

At low level some of the reserve feats are awesome. They allow wizards to actually be useful in more than 2 encounters. High end though, they aren't worth much. 9D6 damage is the max, and that reserves a 9th level spell. 9d6 damage that can't be augmented isn't great. Sure it sounds good, but think about the comparison of an approriate CR monsters HP. You'll barely put a dent in them... Great, so you're the only one who can actually deal damage. That just means you're the first target.

[EvilElitest]

Think about it this way, if a high level mage run completly out of spells after a massive fight and is still in combat these act as the fall back plan
You might consider them broken, but wizards already are, they are to good for these
from,
EE

[Caelestion]

Well, at the risk of sounding elitist or "nerf-ist", it *is* possible to play a character who doesn't try to beat every encounter instantly. Reserve feats, in my opinion, are there for a little style and flair, much like the entire Warlock class, really.

[EvilElitest]

Well, at the risk of sounding elitist or "nerf-ist", it *is* possible to play a character who doesn't try to beat every encounter instantly. Reserve feats, in my opinion, are there for a little style and flair, much like the entire Warlock class, really.

I hope the elitest comment was not directed at me
from,
EE

[Caelestion]

That's the risk of using real words in your username. Try using pneumonoultramicroscopicsilicovolcanoconiosis next time :)

[SpiderBrigade]

I'd agree with what several posters have written: Reserve feats are for low level wizards. When you're a party at level 2 or 3, the wizard has to be really careful about his spells, especially if there's no guarantee of rest before additional encounters. These feats let him do something magical, while still saving the good spells (which even at low levels will often be better than the reserve effect) for the true pinch fights.

I know I've definitely felt the need to be overly cautious with spells, falling back on my essentially useless crossbow for most fights. In a situation where you don't KNOW if there's going to be a bigger, harder fight right around the corner, that's a perfectly sound tactic. But it's no fun. At least with the reserve abilities you can contribute somewhat (again, not as much as casting the real spell would contribute) and in a way that matches your arcane-caster concept.

The feats might look too good, much as the Warlock looks too good to some people, but they're really not that strong. It's not like wizards are getting this for free; they have to spend a feat.

[Bears With Lasers]

If he were talking to you, he'd've said Elitest. He said elitist, which is the proper spelling, and therefore was not mentioning your name. :P

[Merlin the Tuna]

Aye, they're not very good in combat situations. Great for getting that "I am magical and you are not, I open doors by shooting fire at them, neener neener" flavor, though.

[Caelestion]

Full marks for style every time :) After all, you presumably roleplay to have fun, so why not make others laugh with your mastery of BILC (because it looks cool) *g*

[SpiderBrigade]

Think about it this way, if a high level mage run completly out of spells after a massive fight and is still in combat these act as the fall back plan
You might consider them broken, but wizards already are, they are to good for these
from,
EE

Actually, if the mage runs completely out of spells he can't use the reserve feats, as they require you to still have a prepared spell "in reserve." They are intended to be used instead of expending your spells, rather than a last-ditch "i have nothing left" ability.

In terms of a FPS, it's like trying to beat every level with the weak unlimited-ammo starting gun, saving the rockets and energy weapons for "boss" fights. Might be a viable tactic for the first few levels, but in the final stages of the game it's just not going to work out.

[Talya]

High-level wizards don't run out of spells. If they're running low, they pop into a magnificent mansion or a rope trick and crash for eight hours.

I keep seeing this argument.

It's wrong. Entirely wrong.

Magnificent Mansion and Rope Trick don't stop time from flowing in the world around you. D&D is not like a computer game where you can shut down and rest for 8 hours and load up and everything is how you left it. Generally there's a time limit on whatever you are doing that will severely hamper you (or wipe out a few villages) if you can't get it done quickly. Generally intelligent monsters don't wait around nicely for you to come back and kill them after you pop out to rest and regain all your spells. Heck, Magnificent Mansion itself, as handy as it is, is a deathtrap if used in that way...nothing like watching a wizard cast it, and take his party inside to rest and heal up, then organizing a small army outside that very spot to ambush them when they come out. (What? Monsters can have spellcraft, too.)

Edit: Oh, and better leave your bags of holding outside the rope trick for others to pick up and steal all your stuff...

[Aquillion]

...so reserve feats turn wizards into warlocks, basically? Yeah. That'll get you far.

(On the other hand, you're getting what amounts to the trademark ability of a warlock's entire progression for a single feat. And it's still considered underpowered. Poor warlocks.)

[LotharBot]

I don't have complete mage handy, so let me know if I'm wrong on any of this:

All reserve feats really do is make it so your wizard can plink away for a few d6 elemental damage each round instead of rolling a 19 on his attack roll and missing with his non-magical crossbow he's had since level 1. Keeps them involved in combat at the cost of a feat.

They might possibly be overpowered at level 1 -- a spell of burning hands means d6 fire damage every round from your wizard. But then, a level 1 wizard is generally one of the least useful members of the party. The rogue can undo traps, the armored types (fighter, cleric) can bash stuff, and the wizard can contribute to maybe one or two encounters before he's out of spells. This keeps him contributing to every encounter.

They're definitely NOT overpowered at high levels. So the wizard can do 9d6 fire damage every round... so what? The rogue can flank something and full attack, and do about 60d6 + 12 strength drain, and the fighter can clobber stuff for d12+60 damage four times -- and these are completely straightforward non-twinked characters. The only time the damage might really matter is against something with an absurdly high AC -- in which case, the wizard has better things to be doing than plinking away for 9d6 fire damage.

[selfcritical]

They're also good for people who are new to playing casters, to give them a "default" action to take every combat round.

[Bears With Lasers]

...except that you've got a 30'-range-orb or a 20' line with a fixed damage type that you can't adjust, add blast shapes (like extend or chain) to, et cetera. So you're not quite a Warlock.

Edit: gah quit it with the bag of holding stuff. First of all, that's a crummy remnant of older additions that needs to be tossed. WotC articles have even said so. Secondly, mechanically, only bags of holding and portal holes interact that way. There is no rule on what happens when you bring one into a Rope Trick, so by RAW, nothing happens even though there's fluff text saying "it's dangerous". And Rope Trick isn't even equivalent to a portable hole! One's an extradimensional space, the other is a nondimensional space.

As for not being able to rest whenever you like... you can't always do so, but traditionally, adventurers have the initiative. They are proactive. They go to their enemies.

[Theodoxus]

Warlocks are way better than a reserve feat... they can modify their eldritch bolt into something resembling usefulness (though they're still blasters, at least they have more style than warmages). Plus, EB isn't their only trick. All their abilities are pretty nifty, if not game breaking like a wizards. It's like the difference between the original gish builds and the Duskblade. Warlock and Duskblade are 'easy mode' for what they do. Easy mode tends to not be optimal, but it is easy... hence the name.

When I first read Reserve feats, I too thought 'wtf' - but as we all know, it's never about the damage dice... it's about augmenting the base damage. That's why melee fighters will always do more damage than 10d6 SA rogues. That's why save or die and save or suck mages will always be superior to 10d6 fireball blasters. Yes, reserve feats are great against popcorn opponents, though hardly as effective as a single fireball (or lightning, depending on how said popcorn is arranged).

Theo

[Bears With Lasers]

Swallow Whole is particularily effective against popcorn opponents.

[Zherog]

High-level wizards don't run out of spells. If they're running low, they pop into a magnificent mansion or a rope trick and crash for eight hours. Or two, if they're smart enough to wear a ring of sustenance.

Talya covered the tactical problems with these spells well (even if she was wrong about bags of holding, as BWL was kind enough to point out ;) ). She didn't, however, address the ring of sustenance.

In sort, the ring does not allow a caster to regain spells faster. While it negates the need for food and water, and allows you to get 8 hours worth of sleep in 2 hours, you still need 8 complete hours of rest in order to prepare spells.

The description of the ring of sustenance says the user gets all the benefits of 8 hours of sleep in 2 hours. How does this affect a bard, sorcerer, or wizard who wants to regain spells? Specifically, how does this interact with the casting limit rule in the Player’s Handbook?

In the case of a ring of sustenance, “all the benefits of 8 hours of sleep” means the character sleeps for 2 hours and regains 1 hit point per level (see the rules for natural healing on Chapter 8 of the Player’s Handbook). If the ring wearer is fatigued, 2 hours of sleep removes the fatigue.

A wizard must have 8 hours of rest before regaining spells. If the wizard doesn’t have to sleep for some reason, she still requires 8 hours of rest to regain any spells (see Preparing Wizard Spells on page 177 of the Player’s Handbook). A ring of sustenance doesn’t change that.

A bard or sorcerer regains spells only once a day, and a ring of sustenance doesn’t increase that.

A ring of sustenance also doesn’t exempt the wearer from the casting limit rule. Whenever a spellcaster gets a new set of spells, any spell slot she used in the last 8 hours is not available. This rule has nothing to do with how much sleep the spellcaster gets; it reflects how long a spell slot must remain empty before the character can refill it. The ring doesn’t make 8 hours pass, so it doesn’t help the character refill the used spell slot.

[Bears With Lasers]

The FAQ ruling is as official as all the others, of course, but it's an intentional nerf not an honest reading IMO. Rest is damn-sure a benefit of sleep.

In any case Complete Mage has a bedroll that does let you get eight hours of sleep and rest in one hour, so you can re-prepare spells, once/day. I think it does, at least, and because this is the internet I don't even have to double-check my facts or anything, I can just post my vague recollections as facts!

[SpiderBrigade]

I believe that item is once per 48 hours, technically, but that might not be right either =)

Besides, even if your particular caster isn't able to refresh spells whenever he wants, that doesn't change the fact that the reserve feats aren't overpowered, or even really powerful at all.

[Bears With Lasers]

Yeah. Reserve feats are kind of like this:


Fun, but not very useful.

[Flying Elephant]

Wasn't there a reserve feat that let you summon an elemental? I could picture that being cheap.
Wizard: Elemental, spring that trap.
Trap: Boom!
Wizard: Summon elemental! Elemental, check for enemies in the next room.
Elemental: *enters next room and dies*
etc. etc.

[Bears With Lasers]

You can already do all that for a minimal price with a Wand of Summon Monster I, 750 gp. Good traps are self-resetting.

[Jayabalard]

Swallow Whole is particularily effective against popcorn opponents.

Not really, it tends to make people choke... especially if you try several in a row. Swallow-after-chewing works much better.

[Bears With Lasers]

You know, that reminds me. People think D&D physics is bad? What about D&D biology? The T-Rex... swallows you whole. And you are in its stomach.

Then you cut yourself out, but before anyone else in there can come out with you, muscular action seals the wound.

That is some hardcore muscular action right there.

[SpiderBrigade]

...not to mention that cutting your way out deals an entire 25 of the T-rex's 180 HP.

Edit: Although actually, by the RAW you are in the creature's gizzard, which would be more muscular, and less vital if punctured. So it's a little more okay.

[Zherog]

You know, that reminds me. People think D&D physics is bad? What about D&D biology? The T-Rex... swallows you whole. And you are in its stomach.

Then you cut yourself out, but before anyone else in there can come out with you, muscular action seals the wound.

That is some hardcore muscular action right there.

Didn't you know all t-rexes do 500 crunches before breakfast, and another 500 before bedtime?