Charisma to saves

[Tor the Fallen]

How many times can you get your charisma to saves?

[Takamari]

Once, as far as I know. I would assume you are thinking of the paladin feature. If I'm not mistaken, it is a named bonus. I would assume that you could get it multiple times providing the bonus is different.

[SpiderBrigade]

The only one I know of offhand is stacking the Paladin ability Divine Grace with the Hexblade ability Arcane Resistance, which applies only to saves vs. spells. I think all other instances of Cha-to-saves specify that they don't stack with Divine Grace.

[Dhavaer]

Hexblade, Blackguard, and a racial ability of some fey would give you three times. There's probably more.

[TheOOB]

Divine Grace is an untyped bonus, so in theory it stacks with all other abilities.

However, aside from the paladin, I can think of only one other class that gains something similar to divine grace, and that is the blackguard with theri dark blessing ability, which would stack with divine grace if it was possible to get both abilities on the same character.

The wording of the ability seems to imply that divine grace stacks with other similar abilities (even itself if you manage to get two classes with the ability), though I could see argument saying that the ability doesn't stack (as it stands more evidence seems to point twords the "does stack" idea). However, it should be noted that is would be a very poor choice to allow divine grace to stack with similar abilities as a DM, divine grace is a powerful ability, and getting it two or three times with a decently high charisma would essentially make you succeed every saving throw you ever make.

[Tor the Fallen]

Divine Grace (Su)

At 2nd level, a paladin gains a bonus equal to her Charisma bonus (if any) on all saving throws.

Dark Blessing (Su)

A blackguard applies his Charisma modifier (if positive) as a bonus on all saving throws.

Totally unnamed.

All the variant paladins get divine grace, and I know there are some other classes out there that charisma to saves. I'm trying to think up a gish gestalt build where I get like triple or quadruple to charisma mod to my saves.

[Karsh]

If you are a Nymph Paladin of Slaughter 3/Hexblade 2/Blackguard 2, you are an ECL 20 character with Charisma to saves 3 times all the time and 4 times against Spells and Spell-like abilities.

[brian c]

I think Karsh ahs the right idea, use an evil Paladin variant and stack that with Blackguard for the best way. I was gonna say that, but he beat me to it

[Tor the Fallen]

If you are a Nymph Paladin of Slaughter 3/Hexblade 2/Blackguard 2, you are an ECL 20 character with Charisma to saves 3 times all the time and 4 times against Spells and Spell-like abilities.

Ooh, that's wicked.
Heh. Imagine running into a paladin of slaughter nymph nigh immune to spells.

[edit]
Hexblade 3/Paladin of Slaughter 2 for mettle would be superior. So, so recoculous.

[Jasdoif]

And don't forget, a nymph's Unearthly Grace gives her a deflection bonus to AC (including touch AC, since it's deflection) as well.

[Seffbasilisk]

The feat 'Force of Personality' replaces Wis with Cha for Willsaves. Might want to give the Nymph that again, so you can dump Wis and get another use for Cha.

Additionally in a Cha-based thing, there's the Gauntlets of Heartfelt Blows. Add your Cha bonus to melee attack damages.

[Tor the Fallen]

Now I just need a way to negate the "a 1 is always a failure" so I can sit in that box of Cloudkill for 20 minutes.

[Ramza00]

http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=320889

[Inyssius Tor]

And hey, it's gestalt. Make that ECL 18, or way less if you use some crazy house-rule for level adjustment and//or racial HD.

[Douglas]

Let's see, if you can manage to satisfy the various requirements, a Gloura (Underdark, ECL 9) Paladin of Slaughter or Tyranny 2/Blackguard 2/Corrupt Avenger (Heroes of Horror) 3/Hexblade 2 gets charisma to saves 5 times against spells, 4 times against everything else, and is only ECL 18 without gestalt. If alignment weren't an issue it would be possible to add several more without going epic for a gestalt character. A good aligned character has about as many sources of charisma to saves available, but the stacking argument is a lot shakier as most of them are named exactly the same (Divine Grace) and might be considered the same source and therefore not stacking depite the untyped nature of the bonus.

[Shhalahr Windrider]

No I just need a way to negate the "a 1 is always a failure" so I can sit in that box of Cloudkill for 20 minutes.

Cloudkill? That's a Fort Save. Then all you need is Steadfast Determination, a feat from PH2. It lets you apply your Constitution modifier to Will Saves instead of your Wisdom and it also removes failure on a natural 1 for Fort Saves.

But Cloudkill is Fort Partial, so you'd still be taking Con damage. For 20 minutes, that's 200 Con damage. You'd still be dead.

[Falconsflight]

Just so you know. You can get both Blackgaurd and Paladin abilities. level 2Paladin/level 2 Blackgaurd-then become Lawful good Via atonement. You gain both, becuase The Blackgaurd doesn't have a "If yuo change alignment/class" restriction on it.

So yeah, do that plus all the other abilities people have lsited.

[Douglas]

The Knight class from PHBII gets to ignore auto-fail on 1 for all saves, but you have to wait until level 17 in the class to get that feature.

[Ramza00]

Corrupt Avenger requires non-evil.

Second to make sure you never get a natural 1. Aura of Perfect Order (Crusader 6, IL 11) will allow you to treat once a round a d20 roll as an 11

[ImperiousLeader]

Cloudkill? That's a Fort Save. Then all you need is Steadfast Determination, a feat from PH2. It lets you apply your Constitution modifier to Will Saves instead of your Wisdom and it also removes failure on a natural 1 for Fort Saves.

But Cloudkill is Fort Partial, so you'd still be taking Con damage. For 20 minutes, that's 200 Con damage. You'd still be dead.

Hmmm, I can't recall, is there a version of evasion for Fort saves, iow, a successful save negates instead of a partial effect? I think there's Mettle, but isn't that just will saves?

[storybookknight]

You may also (should you have the levels) want to take about 2 levels of rogue for evasion purposes. Mettle + Evasion + saving throws... now all you need is a race with SR!

Edit: and if you took 4 levels of monk, you might as well also take Ascetic Mage to glean charisma to AC again!

[Annarrkkii]

DROW!

...What? No takers? Slap on the final two levels as Occult Slayer, and invest in some Mage Slayer feats, and you might be set.

[TheOOB]

Cloudkill? That's a Fort Save. Then all you need is Steadfast Determination, a feat from PH2. It lets you apply your Constitution modifier to Will Saves instead of your Wisdom and it also removes failure on a natural 1 for Fort Saves.

But Cloudkill is Fort Partial, so you'd still be taking Con damage. For 20 minutes, that's 200 Con damage. You'd still be dead.

If you take enough levels in hexblade you get mettle which would help in that situation.

[Shhalahr Windrider]

Hmmm, I can't recall, is there a version of evasion for Fort saves, iow, a successful save negates instead of a partial effect? I think there's Mettle, but isn't that just will saves?

No, Mettle is both Fort and Will saves.

I forgot about Mettle. Yeah, Steadfast Determination, and an obscenely high Fort Save, and you'll be sitting pretty. No trouble at all with any cloudkill.

[Da Beast]

This is a list of everything that allows you to add an abilitiy to something.

[Dausuul]

No I just need a way to negate the "a 1 is always a failure" so I can sit in that box of Cloudkill for 20 minutes.

Wouldn't it be better to find something that would make you immune to poison instead?

[Falconsflight]

What is Mettle? I've seen people talk about it before. I've never seen it before. What does it do?

[Dausuul]

What is Mettle? I've seen people talk about it before. I've never seen it before. What does it do?

Basically, it's Evasion for Fort and Will saves. Any time you get hit by an effect that's "Fort partial" or "Will partial" and you make your save, you're unaffected. For instance, if you made your save versus finger of death, you wouldn't take 3d6 + caster level damage.

[Tor the Fallen]

Cloudkill? That's a Fort Save. Then all you need is Steadfast Determination, a feat from PH2. It lets you apply your Constitution modifier to Will Saves instead of your Wisdom and it also removes failure on a natural 1 for Fort Saves.

But Cloudkill is Fort Partial, so you'd still be taking Con damage. For 20 minutes, that's 200 Con damage. You'd still be dead.

Mettle turns fort patial to fort not at all.

[edit]
I see that's been addressed.

[Tor the Fallen]

Gloura's on the wizards site, and holy cow, what a beaut that is. Only LA +2 (and 7 fey hd, bleh) for +10 dex, +4 con, +2 wis, +6 cha, good fly speed 60', and unearthly grace.

The corrupt avenger is any non-evil, so that wouldn't work with the blackguard.
There's also this caveat with grim resolve:

Grim Resolve (Ex): Starting at 3rd level, you gain a bonus equal to your Charisma bonus (if any) on all saving throws. This benefit does not stack with other effects that allow you to add your Charisma bonus to saves (such as divine grace).