Buying magic items: Ever wonder...

[Talya]

...where the multitude of 17th level wizards making your ubiquitous metamagic rods are?

My DM made me travel to waterdeep just to find a LESSER metamagic rod of extending. His explanation?

"Even in Faerun, Level 17 wizards don't grow on trees. And most of them have better things to do than make metamagic rods for sale."

[Ikkitosen]

I imagine things like Wizards Guilds have specialist enchanters whose primary role is creating income for the guild by creating magic items.

[Indon]

Well, you see, whenever a Lawful Neutral wizard dies, they're damned to an eternity of producing magical items in a factory in Mechanus.

Mechanus then exports to fund further production.

[Swooper]

Poor guys. They'll never make the high levels, spending all their XP on magical items like that. I miss 2nd Edition, when you actually GAINED XP for making magical items. I play casters most of the time, and I don't think I've made as much as a scroll since 2nd Edition.

[JellyPooga]

This is called "Good DM-ing" IMO.

All those high level Magic Items have to be made by someone and there really aren't that many high level characters (let alone those with spellcasting ability AND the required Craft feat(s)).

This is why, if I ever DM a game, Magic Items are pretty rare and if the players want something specific, they either have to be really Lucky or make it themselves....on the other hand, special materials are relatively common in my games (probably about equal with other peoples' 'normal' games...i.e. if you have the money, it's available.), though there are some exceptions (dragonhide being one of them).

[Talya]

I miss 2nd Edition, when you actually GAINED XP for making magical items.

That actually makes far more sense.

[Talya]

This is called "Good DM-ing" IMO.

All those high level Magic Items have to be made by someone and there really aren't that many high level characters (let alone those with spellcasting ability AND the required Craft feat(s)).

This is why, if I ever DM a game, Magic Items are pretty rare and if the players want something specific, they either have to be really Lucky or make it themselves....on the other hand, special materials are relatively common in my games (probably about equal with other peoples' 'normal' games...i.e. if you have the money, it's available.), though there are some exceptions (dragonhide being one of them).

This is my DM's attitude, too. To be fair, it makes far more sense than treating the entire campaign setting as a magical walmart.

[Ikkitosen]

That actually makes far more sense.

And is completely unbalanced :(

[Funkyodor]

I really hate the feeling I get sometimes when the DM allows anything you can afford, it kinda turns the entire city into a Toys are Us. Great twist was that we spent alot of money in town, the local 'Guild' got wind of it, and demanded their cut. Three guys ambushed the Bard in a back alley and gave him a couple of good shiners when he couldn't produce the goods. Curtailed spending and started a good campaign at the same time.

[Emperor Tippy]

I do all my shopping in Sigil or Union at high levels. So I don't worry overmuch about it.

[Ikkitosen]

I do all my shopping in Sigil or Union at high levels. So I don't worry overmuch about it.

What about in worlds where these places don't exist though?

[Morty]

Heh. Actually, my current campaign takes place in Faerun too, but my DM is even more restrictive about magic items. Not only we can't just buy every item we can afford, but our DM specifically states what we can find in shop- we ususally find items or take them as reward. Well, between the two, I like my DM's approach better. There's only few things I hate more that "Good day my stout yeoman, I'd like to buy one Cloak of resistance +1 and one Belt of Giant's Strenght, please" .

[Shiny, Bearer of the Pokystick]

Meh, if you're in a low-magic setting, dandy-fine for you if you can't buy potions/scrolls/rods/whatever.

Forgotten realms, though, what the...that's a pretty dang epic setting.
Elminster probably produces metamagic rods as part of his digestive process (the end part).

If it really bothers you, posit specialized crafters that (while not great wizards in the usual sense) are great crafters.

But in the end, this is just another "This is unrealistic and I dislike it for that reason, even though it's one of the factors that balances the game/makes the game playable."
I am seeing this far too often. If you really try, honestly, I'll bet you can both allow classes that need magic items to get them, and be logically consistent.

For instance- let's say the Zhents are branching out into producing magical items for sale. Their caravans travel widely, they almost certainly have potent wizards at their command, any criminal syndicate needs cash. Could be? Could be.

Also, many and more magic items are part of hoards, i.e. from the distant past/lost empire. So if you're really bothered, put the rods there and blame it on the ancient empire of blahblah.

[Gamebird]

I say that magic items don't degrade over time. Then posit a sufficiently long-term society with few sunderings/destruction of magic items and they build up.

[Eldritch_Ent]

Nono, you guys have it all wrong- the Fine people at Mojotech Incorporated make all of your magic items, and just use Wizards as Fences. :P


Actually, I'd have to agree that 17th level wizard's don't grow on trees, and that they ahve better things to do than make magic items for you... However it might be fun as a DM to actually have people try to comission magic goods from the party Wizard.

[Roderick_BR]

I have a DM that says "if you have enough money, anything can be found in WaterDeep" Of course, that rule usually bites his ass time and time again, bue he doesn't learn

[Talya]

Actually, I'd have to agree that 17th level wizard's don't grow on trees, and that they ahve better things to do than make magic items for you... However it might be fun as a DM to actually have people try to comission magic goods from the party Wizard.

Party...wizard? I'm the party wizard. I'm a sorceress without item creation feats.

[Knight_Of_Twilight]

One of my players is an artificer currently, and he wants to start an economic empire by cheaply making Magic items and selling them to people. Aye yai yai.

[Illiterate Scribe]

Actually, I'd have to agree that 17th level wizard's don't grow on trees

Apparently you don't know the Faerun setting very well .

[Talya]

One of my players is an artificer currently, and he wants to start an economic empire by cheaply making Magic items and selling them to people. Aye yai yai.

I'm reminded of Varsuuvius and the potion sale...but this board is too slow during the day to look it up.

[Aurumvorax]

If it really bothers you, posit specialized crafters that (while not great wizards in the usual sense) are great crafters.

QFT
Yes, wizards do not grow on trees, but it's entirely possible that there are wizards that earn they living by making magic items, especially if they don't feel like adventuring and/or are too lazy to research new spells.But you're probably right that they aren't of very high level.
Maybe the best solution for getting potent magic items is to have them commissioned from a local WizGuilt (well, maybe not *local*, but one in the big city)

[PinkysBrain]

Wow there must be an awful lot of Americans here ... only Gamebird seems to grasp the concept of recycling.

[lord_khaine]

i must say i would call this bad Gm'ing as well, you are in the freaking forgotten realms, you got countless forgotten empires full of ancient artifacts, you got more epic lv wizards than just about any other campaign setting, and you got a entire empire who is specalised in selling magical goods.

and as it has been mentioned before, its assumed you have access to stuff like that in your challenge rating.

[Innis Cabal]

i think your DM needs to remember something about FR....level 17th mages dont grow on trees, but when there are multiple ARchmages running around there is a high probablity that there will in fact be wizards making items...like Thay...

[Morty]

Yeah, but if players can just say "alright, we buy this and this, thank you" it's bad GMing. The fact that it's high magic setting doesn't have to mean that magic junk is lying on every shelve in every shop, you know.

[Innis Cabal]

well in FR....yes it does...go to Nar for a little while and look around if your 17th level, the demons wont be to bad. Or heck, go to Thay, they are the wal-mart of the wizard world. The fact there is an empire's whole idea for conquest is to buy out the magical items market....yes you can buy this this and this, though you might have to go over hells half acre to get it

[Laurellien]

Meh, if you're in a low-magic setting, dandy-fine for you if you can't buy potions/scrolls/rods/whatever.

Forgotten realms, though, what the...that's a pretty dang epic setting.
Elminster probably produces metamagic rods as part of his digestive process (the end part).

Consider yourself sigged

[Morty]

well in FR....yes it does...go to Nar for a little while and look around if your 17th level, the demons wont be to bad. Or heck, go to Thay, they are the wal-mart of the wizard world. The fact there is an empire's whole idea for conquest is to buy out the magical items market....yes you can buy this this and this, though you might have to go over hells half acre to get it

Yep. But you have to go somewhere, which is exactly what I mean. You can't buy them anywhere you like. Which I belive is the whole point of the thread.
It's a shame actually. FR is really nice setting, but as I see, it's knee deep in magic junk. As much as I love magic in fantasy I hate magic items. So our group plays FR as lower-magic setting.

[Jayabalard]

That actually makes far more sense.

Not necessarily.

in order to create a magic item you have to give up a portion of your essence (XP) to create it... certainly, you learn more about being a wizard by making the item, but not enough to offset the potion of your being that you have to give up to make the item.

[Amphimir Míriel]

I tend to do the "The shopkeeper has so and so for sale" too... That way, I keep some sort of control over the magic items the party has...

And my players are (at least as of today) very naive when it comes to looting their enemies... At least twice they have passed on taking an enemy's magic weapon "because it was covered in evil runes and icky decorations"