Skill Point/Multiclassing Clarification

[geez3r]

For sake of argument, say you were playing a character with 2 levels of rouge, and then you decided to multiclass to ranger when you leveled up.

Now as I understand it, all of your rouge skills still count as class skills for determining your max ranks in that particular skill, and the same going for your ranger skills. Example: You could have a max of 6 ranks in Open Lock, and 6 ranks in Handle Animal.

However, because Open Lock is not on the class skills list for a ranger, in order to buy a rank in Open Lock you would need to spend 2 skill points.

Am I right in all this or am I wrong at some point(s)?

[Jasdoif]

That is correct.

[Yvian]

No, you are not correct.

Let us say you have 2 ranks of rouge. You can put 5 skill points into open lock - which gets you 5 ranks in open lock. Now you go up a level of ranger. You put 1 skill point into open lock - which gets you a 1/2 a rank in open lock, so now you have 5.5 ranks.

Or, if you had never taken put any skill points into open lock you could put 6 in [the max at 3rd level] - which would give you 3 ranks.

It matters when and how you allocate your skill points.

There are house rules to skip this - once a theif always a thief - but it is just that - a house rule.

[Jacob Orlove]

Yvian, he's right. I don't know what you're disagreeing with--both of you are saying the same thing.

There is one mistake, but it's in Yvian's post. 6 is max ranks for an in-class skill at third level, but if our hypothetical character has 14 Int, he can spend all 8 of his ranger skill points to boost Open Lock to 4 (if it had no prior ranks), rather than being limited to spending only 6. There's no restriction on how many skill points you can spend, just on how many ranks you can have.

[geez3r]

OK thanks for the input.

[silvermesh]

Yvian, he's right. I don't know what you're disagreeing with--both of you are saying the same thing.

incorrect.

this is the part that is wrong:

Now as I understand it, all of your rouge skills still count as class skills for determining your max ranks in that particular skill, and the same going for your ranger skills. Example: You could have a max of 6 ranks in Open Lock, and 6 ranks in Handle Animal.

Your skills do not continue to be class skills when you are currently not advancing that class. if you take 2 levels in rogue, your max ranks in open locks when taking that second level is 5. Now, next level you take a level in ranger. your max ranks in open locks as a ranger at character level 3 is 3. assuming you already have 3 or more in that skill, you can still always put one point into it(thus, upping your max skill to 5.5, assuming you had 5 points in to begin with), but you cannot raise it to 6 due to the fact that your max for a cross-class skill is 3. Your max ranks in handle animal is 6. if you take another level of rogue next, your max ranks for that level in handle animal is 3.5(we don't round this fraction because you can buy half ranks in cross-class skills). if you already had points in it, again, you can still always buy half a rank.

To reiterate: the class that you are currently levelling determines which skills are class and cross-class for both how much those skills cost to rank, AND their max levels.

it's a little complex, but buying skills is all about timing. there are times when you might want to wait to take a level in a certain class, so that you can get a certain skill up to the point you want it without being restricted by the max.

[Caelestion]

Oh dear. Cross-class ranks are still limited by your level - level +3 for class skills and (level +3) halved for crossclass skills.

Also, when you multiclass, all current and previous class skills are treated as class skills when determining maximum ranks, but only your current class skills can be increased at one-for-one (barring feats).

[henebry]

Wow. I had no idea how complex it is. In the database I use to keep track of character generation in my campaign, I was keeping track of max skill rank separately for each class that a character has.

Fixed!

[Edit] Wait. Now new posters have disagreed with the previous ones.

[Edit 2] New posters are wrong;

Skills
If a skill is a class skill for any of a multiclass character’s classes, then character level determines a skill’s maximum rank. (The maximum rank for a class skill is 3 + character level.)

If a skill is not a class skill for any of a multiclass character’s classes, the maximum rank for that skill is one-half the maximum for a class skill.

The confusion arises because max rank is applied for a given character globally, while the cost to buy a rank in a skill is applied within each class individually. Really it's all a question of procedure. You buy ranks as you add class levels, using the skill rank pricing for the class in which you just gained a level. Then, you add up all the skill ranks from all your classes and compare that total to your character's max rank in that skill. Your max rank is character level +3 for skills which are class skills for any of your classes; your max rank is half of that for skills that aren't class skills for any of your classes. So, Silvermesh, when a rogue multiclasses to ranger, he must pay 2 "ranger" skill points to buy more ranks in Open Lock, but his max skill rank (determined for the character as a whole) is character level +3 because Open Lock is a class skill for rogues.

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

RAW reference:

Skills: If a skill is a class skill for any of a multiclass character’s classes, then character level determines a skill’s maximum rank. (The maximum rank for a class skill is 3 + character level.)

[Ikkitosen]

Your skills do not continue to be class skills when you are currently not advancing that class. if you take 2 levels in rogue, your max ranks in open locks when taking that second level is 5. Now, next level you take a level in ranger. your max ranks in open locks as a ranger at character level 3 is 3. assuming you already have 3 or more in that skill, you can still always put one point into it(thus, upping your max skill to 5.5, assuming you had 5 points in to begin with), but you cannot raise it to 6 due to the fact that your max for a cross-class skill is 3. Your max ranks in handle animal is 6. if you take another level of rogue next, your max ranks for that level in handle animal is 3.5(we don't round this fraction because you can buy half ranks in cross-class skills). if you already had points in it, again, you can still always buy half a rank.

To reiterate: the class that you are currently levelling determines which skills are class and cross-class for both how much those skills cost to rank, AND their max levels.

it's a little complex, but buying skills is all about timing. there are times when you might want to wait to take a level in a certain class, so that you can get a certain skill up to the point you want it without being restricted by the max.

Sorry to restate what has been said, but to avoid confusion: The above quoted text is wrong.

You pay for skills as for the class you're advancing, but max ranks are determined as in-class for any skill that is a class skill for any of your classes and cross-class otherwise.

[TRM]

So let me see if I understand this (I have the same problem as geez3r):
Your maximum ranks are character level +3 if the skill is a class skill for any of your classes (a 2nd level rogue 1st level ranger could have 6 ranks in Open Lock).
But you would buy skill ranks in Open Lock as a cross-class skill (if you're a ranger).
However you could spend 4 skill points to bring Disable Device (which only has 4 ranks) up to 6 ranks.

??????

[Lord Lorac Silvanos]

Yes, exactly!

[silvermesh]

Sorry to restate what has been said, but to avoid confusion: The above quoted text is wrong.

You pay for skills as for the class you're advancing, but max ranks are determined as in-class for any skill that is a class skill for any of your classes and cross-class otherwise.

whoops I was looking at an older 3.0 FAQ I had downloaded ages ago(odd, as the newer 3.0 FAQ agrees with the new 3.5 ruling).

[Khoran]

If something was ever a class skill, your max rank is always 3+Character level, however, to advance a rank, it costs 2 skill points if it not currently a class skill.

Though if you have Able Learner, your cross class skills give a 1:1 ratio for skill points, so you'll notice no difference when you multiclass

[Khoran]

If something was ever a class skill, your max rank is always 3+Character level, however, to advance a rank, it costs 2 skill points if it not currently a class skill.

Though if you have Able Learner, your cross class skills give a 1:1 ratio for skill points, so you'll notice no difference when you multiclass