Good alignment Lloth and drow variant setting; Thoughts/suggestions/interest?

[SouthpawSoldier]

Got to talking today with my better half about creative writing assignments I'd had while in school, as a segue from worldbuilding and how D&D gets my creative juices flowing. Things like her abhorrence for fanfic, and my appreciation for good fanfic (I argue that most Star Wars novels are just that), and such. I remember more than a few assignments requiring using the last sentence/paragraph of a short story as a jumping off point for a final chapter of our creation, and used them for argument that fanfic is original, just using the source material as a seed.

One particular assignment that popped to mind was a creation myth story; just a short blurb with something original. Mine was arachnid centric; the lunar phases were explained as an egg sack filling and emptying; stars were dewdrops caught on a web holding the firmament together, things of that nature.

Remembering that story, I got to wondering how hard it would be to incorporate into worldbuilding for a D&D setting. Arachnid deity; maybe a duality between a stern, matronly female and an Anansi clone. Drow are surface dwellers, and pale elves inhabit the Underdark (similar to lack of pigments in cave dwelling species). Drow are still nocturnal, but in the nature of Tolkien's elves, worshiping the moon and stars. Any class is suitable; seeking the tranquility of the night, the dual order/chaos of nature, the music of crickets and night birds; all elements that can be lent to Monks, Druids, Bards.

Spiders are worshiped for their constructive abilities, and the art of an orb-weaver is held higher than that of any city dweller. Retain some drow tropes, but with a twist (matriarchal society; males are chaotic and flighty by nature, females provide the order and structure of the hearth). Have the cave-dwelling pale elves be lost cousins; maybe they retreated there after a calamity and were afraid to return to the surface?

[Ninja_Prawn]

First thoughts: I really like these elements in particular:

stars were dewdrops caught on a web holding the firmament together

Drow are still nocturnal, but in the nature of Tolkien's elves, worshiping the moon and stars.

Spiders are worshiped for their constructive abilities

And as for this aspect:

Retain some drow tropes... Have the cave-dwelling pale elves be lost cousins; maybe they retreated there after a calamity and were afraid to return to the surface?

• It would be a simple matter to convert wood elves into cave elves - just swap Mask of the Wild for Stone Camouflage, and add the superior darkvision/sunlight sensitivity combo and you're good.
• Perhaps eliminate high elves from the setting entirely? Maybe include eladrin, but they all live in enclaves / different planes and are militantly obsessed with civilisation and order (LN default), to the point that they're generally antagonistic towards the drow? After all, a violent schism between the elven racial groups is a time-honoured and narratively-useful trope

Other thoughts:

• The chief drow deity seems like a mixture of Lolth and Eilistraee... both are usually depicted as beautiful, semi-naked drow women, though Lolth sometimes appears as a drider and Eilistraee is usually holding a longsword. Maybe the hybrid deity should be a drider with a longsword?
• Is there an evil counterpart to Drizzt? To be honest, it's probably not necessary.
• What else is going on in the setting?
• In the vanilla material, drow are distinguished by having longer maximum lifespans than other elves, and astronomically higher birthrates. They're only kept in check by their fondness for murdering each other. Take away the murder (and give them a fertile surface empire), and there are... implications.

[goto124]

Have the new drow be pale.

If the players ask, say 'they live underground, why do they need melanin in their skin for? To protect them from sunlight?'

This is more of a joke suggestion, but why not.

[Frozen_Feet]

Well, as vanilla Drow are pretty much a spoof on arachnid mating habits, you might want to take a look at those for inspiration.

Specifically: some male spiders allow themselves to be eaten after mating so that the female has enough protein to supply their offspring. So you could have majority of the males be very much into self-sacrifice and chivalry towards the females. And this could splash on their attitudes towards other humanoids species as well; drow males could have a reputation as fierce protectors of women everywhere.

As for the minority of males, the chaotic, flighty kind... with some species of spider, the male ties the legs of the female during mating, so it can get a headstart afterwards and not get eaten. So for the "rogue" male elements of Drow society (worshipping the Anansi equivalent), you could play up Casanova and Chivalrous Pervert tropes. Very polite, very chivalrous, very charming.... and very much gone the morning after. Handily explains all those half-elves (or in this case, half-drow).

As for the female part of the population, to prevent issues of massive overpopulation, you could have them be very, very selective of their mates. In contrast to hypersexuality of vanilla Drow, they would be extreme prudes and very much "wait untill marriage" types. This could loop back to the roguish males - the chaotic males are sort of reverse "defectors from decadence", running from the extreme moral and behavioral demands and obligations their society places on them.

The resulting combination from extreme longevity and high bar for marriage and breeding would mean that drow women look after children only for very small portion of their lives. This would free them for other pursuits, such as a higher education, body-building etc.. This could mean your average drow woman is not very feminine by human standards - they are architechts, construction workers, warriors (etc.) first, mothers second. You could downplay or reverse sexual dimorphism for them - unless a drow woman is anticipating to get pregnant in short order (which is very, very rarely), they're indistinquishable from males and have very little body fat compared to human women (not having visible breasts unless nursing, for example), or they are as a general rule, much taller and more muscular than the males.

[Ninja_Prawn]

So you could have majority of the males be very much into self-sacrifice and chivalry towards the females
...
unless a drow woman is anticipating to get pregnant in short order ... they are as a general rule, much taller and more muscular than the males.

I like these suggestions, though I want to point out that if the men are running around being chivalrous etc. &co., they'd benefit from being big and muscular as well. Maybe just all of new-drow society places more emphasis on athleticism than other races... such as by having lots of sporting contests and so on.

[goto124]

Maybe the drow society sees muscle on males as ugly, while females are supposed to be big and muscular :D

[Frozen_Feet]

Oh, it's possible the males are muscular and strong by human standards as well, with women just being much more so. Kind of reversal of the "elves are thin and frail".

But it's just as possible that the male protective instinct takes a social, rather than physical, bent. It could be that at least when it comes to their own kind, male-on-female violence is something of a foreign concept, or not treated very seriously by drow males - for the simple fact that if a male gets into physical competition with a female ( that's not running away very fast...), the male loses (and is possibly killed and eaten). On the other hand, social and sexual manipulation of females is viewed very dimly, as female sexuality is sacred and a male is not entitled to it without extreme diligence and honesty. So males would be very quick to shame and discredit other males engaging in dishonest flattery, arrogance, seduction or any other "improper" behaviour endangering a female's honor, social, sexual or economic status.

Another possibility is that protectiveness of male drow towards females of other humanoid species is not a form of sexual competition, but a parenting instinct. If drow women are very large and strong compared to other humanoids, it follows females of other species might appear juvenile / child-like to drow males. So unlike fully-grown drow females (who are assumed to be able to defend themselves), human females (etc.) would be seen as "kids" and in need of special protection.

This raises more interesting questions of how the flighty, chaotic males are perceived by their society.

It also raises questions of how drow females would perceive other species. They too might have protective instinct towards smaller humanoids, but also be weirded out by how human females never "grow up". I can imagine a female drow adopting a human female infant and eventually growing very sad and worried that their adopted daughter is unable to keep up with drow physical standards.

[Ninja_Prawn]

I can imagine a female drow adopting a human female infant and eventually growing very sad and worried that their adopted daughter is unable to keep up with drow physical standards.

"...I mean, she just stopped growing! I'm so worried!"

"Yeah, that can't be right. You should take her to the vet."

[goto124]

If you want to make the new drow society out to be Good (does it matter if it's Lawful, Chaotic, or Neutral kinda Good?), it's probably best that they not use other sapient races as slaves. Or pets.

'She's no animal! Take her to the cleric!'

[Nifft]

One particular assignment that popped to mind was a creation myth story; just a short blurb with something original. Mine was arachnid centric; the lunar phases were explained as an egg sack filling and emptying; stars were dewdrops caught on a web holding the firmament together, things of that nature.

Neat.

One thing I did in a previous campaign, which might be of some use to you, was say that Lolth was originally Arachne. She was a mortal weaver (elven of course) who challenged the gods, and for her hubris (and their jealousy) she was cursed.

The Drow in this setting weren't necessarily evil, but they were very much against the gods. They summoned demons & devils because "at least demons are honest about stabbing you in the back".

Some familial houses were more demon-tainted than others. Some did the whole extreme BSDM stereotype. Some did other disturbing things. Some were fairly normal.

[goto124]

As for the birthrate thing, there's always 'really low natural fertility' (surface elves can have this too), and/or 'magical contraception'.

The Drow in this setting weren't necessarily evil, but they were very much against the gods. They summoned demons & devils because "at least demons are honest about stabbing you in the back".

I thought devils were CE and thus not "honest about stabbing you in the back"? Also, isn't that line more of a Lawful/Chaotic thing?

It's hard to convince players that demon summoners are Good anyway.

She was a mortal weaver (elven of course) who challenged the gods, and for her hubris (and their jealousy) she was cursed.

Sounds like a neat setup for a CG version of Lolth. Can also explains why she (and her followers) have dark skin. Might have to portray the other gods as being evil, or at least derserving a cry of 'why the Nine Hells are you doing that?'.

Some familial houses were more demon-tainted than others. Some did the whole extreme BSDM stereotype. Some did other disturbing things. Some were fairly normal.

Speaking of BDSM, it's possible to include Good BDSM as a thing, depending on your players' views on the subject. How prudish are they?

Again, if we're trying to build a Good society, yet have aspects of Evil ones... it's a bit harder to convince people that the society actually is Good, for starters. Then there's the problem of how it works out in-game to be Good not Evil.

Nifft, your version of Drow is rather nicely built. I'm just pointing out possible ways it could be tweaked to better fit OP's purposes.

[Nifft]

I thought devils were CE and thus not "honest about stabbing you in the back"? Also, isn't that line more of a Lawful/Chaotic thing?

It's hard to convince players that demon summoners are Good anyway.

1/ You have devils exactly backwards.
2/ Nobody said they're Good -- what I did was make them rational users of evil by necessity, rather than being inherently evil.

You're confusing explanation with justification.

Sounds like a neat setup for a CG version of Lolth. Can also explains why she (and her followers) have dark skin. Might have to portray the other gods as being evil, or at least derserving a cry of 'why the Nine Hells are you doing that?'.

Nah, that's way too simplistic.

The Greek Gods weren't Evil, but neither were they particularly Good.

Painting one side of a disagreement as unilaterally wrong is ... cartoon evil. My world was built around the idea that many different kinds of Good can exist, and they don't always get along.

[goto124]

Ah. We have different goals then.

How do the 'Good drow' interact with the 'Evil drow', if 'Evil drow' exist at all?

What is the purpose of this drow variant? Is it going to be inserted into any pre-existing setting?

[Nifft]

Ah. We have different goals then.

My goal is to help the OP, who wants:

Retain some drow tropes, but with a twist

I'm doing this by presenting how I retained some Drow tropes, but with a twist.

My hope is that this will be of some use to the OP.

I'm not sure what your goal is, but if it's not helping the OP, then ... uh ... okay?

[Arbane]

Sounds like a neat setup for a CG version of Lolth. Can also explains why she (and her followers) have dark skin.

Or you could go with the less-pr96lematic reason real-world people have dark skin - their ancestors lived somewhere with a lot of sunlight.

[Ninja_Prawn]

Another thought: this has to exist in this setting! It's too perfect!

[gadren]

After Mystra died in the Forgotten Realms, Llolth wanted to seize control of her divine essence and take over the Weave.

Of course, she gets stopped by meddling adventurers, but I always thought it'd be interesting if she'd succeeded.

Every other time in FR that another's god's portfolio gets absorbed, the absorber can't help but take on aspects of the predecessor. So what if Lolth had succeeded, and she lost her evilness in the process, as she became more interested in the Weave than in chaos and destruction? What kind of effect would this have on Drow society?

[Ninja_Prawn]

So what if Lolth had succeeded, and she lost her evilness in the process, as she became more interested in the Weave than in chaos and destruction? What kind of effect would this have on Drow society?

Now that is interesting. There's always been some tension between the drow noble houses, who strike me as largely LE, and the cult of Lolth, who is very much CE. So what would happen if Lolth moved towards Mystra (who I have down as NG) on the alignment scale?

The priestesses aren't going to change overnight... you don't get to be a drow priestess unless you buy into the system, and systems tend to be self-sustaining. Perhaps less so if they're chaotic evil systems, but a strong high priestess could hold it together at least for a while. Perhaps in the longer term, there'd be a merging of church & state, given that they're not so adamantly opposed any more? Would the new Lolth muck in an effect a regime change? She does seem like a hands-on goddess to begin with, and I was under the impression that the latest incarnation of Mystra is a recently-ascended mortal, who would presumably still remember what it's like to do things for herself.

[Nifft]

Every other time in FR that another's god's portfolio gets absorbed, the absorber can't help but take on aspects of the predecessor. So what if Lolth had succeeded, and she lost her evilness in the process, as she became more interested in the Weave than in chaos and destruction? What kind of effect would this have on Drow society?

That's a super cool idea. And obviously, Spiders are things which Weave, so that's her conceptual continuity tie-in.

Thought #1: Arcane magic users are now also favored of Lolth. That means Drow dudes can now rise as high as their (former) overlady matrons. All are equal before the Great Weaver.

Thought #2: What if she still kinda disliked all other Elves? (Elf now has Favored Class: oops.) Perhaps the new batch of Wild Mages are due to Lolth feeling conflicted about Elves and Half-Elves using "her" magic.

Thought #3: The Shadow Weave is going to come under assault. IIRC the previous Weave incarnations were fairly pacifist. Lolth? Not so much. An enemy stands before Her, and there shall be war. Weaver Is Coming!

Thought #4: Maybe the Underdark Weave will get repaired to the degree that teleportation works in & out?

[SouthpawSoldier]

Just....wow. I only had a passing familiarity with FR pantheon and lore. I was just using Lloth as a way of relating a decade old idea to D&D, because it was a something different, and I was curious how hard it would be to work up for a setting. The idea that it could be a new direction for actual lore (Lloth supplanting Mystra) is just incredible. The way everyone has chipped in ideas to take my random musings and mesh them with established material reminds me why I play D&D and frequent this forum.

I had originally come up with the idea as a random creation myth. Now I'm going through everyone's input, and getting all kinds of ideas. Schisms within drow society and religion, maybe a societal collapse? Imagine the power vacuum in the Underdark, as the entire structure of the drow power base upends itself. A House that rejects all trappings of the former society, an becomes more like a Barbarian clan. The possibilities for stories are mindboggling.

I hadn't even considered the relation to the Weave, etc. Too good to pass up.

The main idea I had was males taking longer to mature; hence the flighty behavior. Only a chronologically older male has the relative maturity to be a suitable mate/parent. This, combined with relatively few males living that long, would serve as a population check. But the ideas of sexual dimorphism, of the societal roles, inter-species relations (be interesting to incorporate the change in the cultural xenophobia of traditional drow); mind-blowing.

Thought #1: Arcane magic users are now also favored of Lolth. That means Drow dudes can now rise as high as their (former) overlady matrons. All are equal before the Great Weaver.

Heavily reliant on ritual magic, drawing diagrams reminiscent of a spider's web? Something akin to a Grace, from Sword of Truth, or the runes from Death Gate Cycle? May serve as a new magic mechanic/class? Could also tie into the summoning/pacts; maybe an upsurge in drow Binders?

What if Lloth HERSELF had a schism? A theme in lots of fantasy with active deities (Weis' Rose of the Prophet springs immediately to mind) is the creation/strength of a deity relies on quantity of worshipers and their piety. What if the holdovers within the drow faith are strong enough to maintain the original Lloth, but only a shadow of her former power. The newer "Lloth+" is stronger thanks to Mystra's added power, but still finding herself; reflects the drow society being in shambles. Maybe a diaspora of the drow, as the old guard are strongest in the Underdark.

^Could serve as a source for the reduction in xenophobia; the surface drow are trying to find themselves in the new world, and the new societal order. Casanova males are latching onto other societies and races, sine it's easier to adopt a new identity than create your own. Demonstrated all the time in immigrant cultures. Females are much more selective, and somewhat conservative in personality, so there's less outsiders being raised among the drow compared to half drow in surface cities.

All this just from random musings over a 20 year old writing assignment. I had no setting or story set in mind when sharing this; I just like the brainstorming creative process. The idea that it could be incorporated into FR never crossed my mind. With al the ideas being kicked around in this thread, I can easily see a drow-centric campaign or dozen being built being built. So. Many. Story hooks. Political and religious intrigue. Drow refugees flooding a biased surface world, being treated as an invasion by some. Drizzt being thrust into the role of ambassador/leader, helping drow new to the surface find a place. I had no idea my germ of an idea could turn into something so big.

[goto124]

Do people still want to see Drizzt?

[gadren]

Do people still want to see Drizzt?

The main problem I have with Drizzt is just how much brooding he does. He is very much the stereotype of a 90's hero.

[goto124]

Make him a Hate Sink, then count the number of seconds it takes for him to get killed brutally

[GungHo]

Within FR, I've done this by way of having a culturally isolated section of the Underdark that left Lolth-worship some time ago and replaced it with worship of the elementals. Still afflicted by the curse. Not necessarily good, not necessarily evil. Just people surrounded by elemental spirits who can wreck your day.

The main problem I have with Drizzt is just how much brooding he does. He is very much the stereotype of a 90's hero.

The only thing he doesn't do is walk away from explosions... and that's only because Bob hasn't given him a necklace of missiles.

[Ninja_Prawn]

The only thing he doesn't do is walk away from explosions...

It took me literally one minute to find this, which looks suspiciously like an explosion.

Spoiler

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[illyahr]

This has become one of my new favorite campaign ideas. I love this place.

It took me literally one minute to find this, which looks suspiciously like an explosion.

Spoiler

Show

Whelp, there it is. Drizz't needs to see a doctor and take some prozac. NO. MORE. EMO. HEROS! We are done with the 90's, it needs to stop!

[SouthpawSoldier]

This has become one of my new favorite campaign ideas. I love this place.

My sentiments exactly. I've yet to play a game, though I've had the books since release. All I can do to get my fix is come up with random ideas and stories. Bringing them here is the only way I can get the alteration and expansion that would normally come from play. Writing in an echo chamber is dull.

I threw He-Who-Shall-Not-be-Named-Again in here because I only know two famous drow; him, and a female wizard who moved to the surface and married a human barbarian (can't remember her name, just remember story was interesting).

Back to the topic at hand; I love creativity. Take a recent discussion I had on kobolds. Ideas are polychromatic kobolds are neophyte dragons, changed like 3.5's Dragonborn when they prove themselves; also discussed kobold tribes that are specific colors (incl. metallic) dedicated to their local dragon. All from discussion and comparing influences and ideas.

[illyahr]

I threw He-Who-Shall-Not-be-Named-Again in here because I only know two famous drow; him, and a female wizard who moved to the surface and married a human barbarian (can't remember her name, just remember story was interesting).

Did she happen to lose a hand so the barbarian made a knife-hand for her? If so, I read those books also.

[Segev]

If you want to go with the "men lay down their lives to preserve the women during pregnancy" angle, you could stick with women being the stronger, larger sex, but add that they're capable of multiple births from different fathers. More spider-like or insectile in that sense. The males who gather around their drow matron take up the duties of defense, laying down their lives and substance to support her until she gives birth. Traditionally, each of these men is responsible for one of the children she births, though if one or more of the men dies, survivors take more than one child under their wing. Post-birth, during raising of children, the female is the provider. It's expected that it takes multiple men to do the work of one woman, which is why the women go out to do the work. Because women are the warrior sex, there usually are fewer of them; they die to violence as well as to childbirth. Men are protected as the weaker sex except during their wife's pregnancy, when they are known to take on elements of tropes more akin to "Mama Bear" in protecting her and their unborn children.

Lithe and graceful and beautiful men are valued, but the stereotype of the weak and vulnerable and submissive man is inverted to "do NOT mess with a man's pregnant wife" in the same sense that one does not, in real-world stereotypes, want to mess with a woman's children.

[LudicSavant]

A snippet from my own pantheon the OP might find helpful:


Lolth, The Hunted

Domains: Abyss, Cavern, Chaos, Darkness, Destiny, Destruction, Dream, Drow, Evil, Family, Fate, Knowledge, Luck, Lust, Oracle, Pride, Spider, Trickery
Portfolio: Assassins, ambition, chaos, cunning, darkness, destiny, drow, fate, luck, mothers, post-traumatic growth, potential, spiders, self-actualization, strength
Theme: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iApGYxLTpXo

Knowledge (Religion) DC 10:
Lolth is the patron goddess of the Drow. Tales of her treachery are infamous amongst the high elves. Known as the "Queen of Spiders" or "Queen of the Demonweb Pits," she is reviled for her betrayal of Corellon Larethian, perverse cruelty against her own subjects, and disturbing fixation with spiders.

Formerly the wife of Corellon Larethian, Lolth was corrupted by greed and lust. Not satisfied with her divine rank, she conspired to aid Corellon Larethian's enemy Gruumsh, and steal his power. This led to a great war between the elves, at the end of which Lolth's wicked followers were driven underground.

In art, Lolth is typically depicted as a beautiful drow woman, sometimes with the body of a great spider.

Knowledge (Religion) DC 15:
The Drow tell the story of Lolth rather... differently from the rest of the elves. Formerly a minor goddess and the humble lover of Corellon Larethian, Lolth is said to have realized her own beauty, acquired a sense of self worth, and determined that she and her people were destined for greater things. She came to realize that the ways of the gods of higher divine ranks (almost all men in standard D&D cosmology, and Corellon and Moradin are alone at the highest divine rank, meaning Lolth was basically Hera) were short-sighted, corrupt, and stifling, causing history's problems to endlessly repeat themselves in a cruel drama. Refusing to play second fiddle to Corellon Larethian, whose ways would forever hold the elves back, she left him and instead fell in love with Gruumsh, whose sense of honor she respected. With her guile and wisdom, she managed to secure a greater portfolio for herself.

For this transgression, Corellon Larethian cursed all of her followers, forcing them to flee underground as the other elves turned against them. Ever since, Lolth has sworn vengeance against Corellon Larethian, and promised to restore the drow to their rightful place in the world.

According to her followers, Lolth's philosophy is one of the virtues of ambition, strength, individuality, self-actualization, and realizing your full potential.

The veneration of spiders is based on Lolth's parables. She would often point to the nature of spiders as demonstrations of moral principles, particularly regarding femininity and motherhood. Perhaps the most famous example is the parable of the brood, wherein the new-born spider broods tear each other apart to survive, such that the next generation will be stronger than the last. Another is the parable of the mother, which points to the nature of female spiders to illustrate the strengths of women when we cast off our presumptions.

Knowledge (Religion) DC 20:
Lolth presents a rather novel set of moral principles. She rejects patriarchy, monarchy, chivalry, and other such principles in favor of other notions of honor and virtue. A few examples are as follows:

To a follower of Lolth, there is no concept of "fighting fair." Such notions are invented by the weak-minded to corrupt the cunning. Chivalry states that men may not gang up because nobles are individually better armed, trained, and educated, while peasants are numerous. Chivalry states that poison and assassination is vile, because it deals with the individual who transgresses rather than making war on their minions while they hide within their castles. Chivalry states that fire and swords are honorable, because castles do not burn like cottages, and steel does not slice like linen.

A follower of Lolth would also say that the idea of the strong protecting the weak is a flawed idea, akin to the proverb of the fisherman. To give a man a fish is to feed a man for a day, but to teach a man to fish is to give him the strength to feed a family for a lifetime. To spare the rod is to spoil the child, denying them the strength of discipline. Competence is borne of struggle, and the most saintly character is as worthless as a lifeless stone if it lacks the power to impose itself on the world and thereby better it. Lolth's philosophy speaks volumes about self-realization and self-actualization, and of creating a stronger individual through ambition and trial.

The notion that the weak should not be protected has some limits or exceptions... the duties of an adult is different from the duties of a child, and the sacred duties of a mother are to make their children strong. Also, some trials are so mismatched that they will grant no strength, only destruction.

To a follower of Lolth, strength means more than simply muscle. It means strength of will, strength of character, and strength of mind, as well as pursuing grand dreams and ambitions. Cleverness and guile are respected even more than strength of arm. They often claim that in these respects, women are truly the stronger gender amongst the elves.

One major effect of Lolth's unique philosophy is that drow society seems to be the largest community able to survive with no true central government or monarchy of any kind, though some scholars would note that their society is dwarfed by those of the greater races, considering the drow little more than a loose confederation of tribes (or "houses" as the drow call them).

Lolth is sometimes known as Arachne, Araushnee, or Megwandir in ancient sources. Her connection with spiders goes back to her original role as Corellon's wife and the Weaver of Fate, in which she weaved destiny like a spiderweb. Indeed, it is said that the reason Lolth encourages her followers to cultivate strength is because of the way fate works. She desires to craft the greatest of destinies for her children, but one must be strong enough to seize a grand destiny intended for them.

Drow are not the only worshippers of Lolth, and her philosophy has found traction with many cults, such as that of the human cleric Lareth the Beautiful.

Knowledge (Religion) DC 25:
In ancient times, Lolth was known as the Weaver of Destiny, a patron goddess of luck, fate, and motherhood. Her role was to weave the threads of fate for the elves, to ensure they lived up to their destinies, as well as to protect mothers and promote childbirth.

It was Lolth who urged the lords of the gods to appoint Wee Jas as psychopomp in the Age of Winter, despite Corellon's skepticism that she could fill such a crucial role.

It is said that Lolth was not satisfied with the petty fates she was able to craft, with roadblocks put in her way at every turn, and that this desire to craft a greater destiny for her children (essentially, what she saw as being allowed to do her job properly) was the first seed of her resentment for Corellon Larethian.

It is also sometimes speculated that the reproductive problems of the elves began because of Lolth's schism from Corellon, and that the high infant mortality rate of the elves results from her absence... or perhaps her vengeful curse.

Some give thanks to Lolth when they accomplish great deeds, paying homage to her as the weaver of their grand fate. Some high level adventurers claim that they have received omens from Lolth, telling them of how they may seize their destinies.

There is much speculation of Lolth's role in divine events, as it is uncertain how much influence she currently wields in the pantheon, and her influence as the weaver of fate (now shrouded by her portfolio of darkness and assassins) is nothing if not subtle. Many believe that she is plotting something big... while skeptics say that she is merely hiding from the forces that hunt her.

Knowledge (Religion) DC 30:
A fragment of the apocryphal Leaf Stone claims that Lolth was a goddess of minor stature in early times, one of many lesser deities with small portfolios working under the greater deities such as Corellon Larethian. According to it, dissatisfaction with her role began even earlier than her relationship with Corellon, and indeed it was her dissatisfaction that drove her to seduce him in the first place. Desperate to secure the desiny she longed for for her children, she hoped to steal some of Corellon Larethian's vast divine power. She used her inside position to aid Gruumsh, supporting his ill-fated revolution in which he lost his eye... and indeed making such a fight possible in the first place against the two highest ranked deities. In some ways, Gruumsh holds his failure against Lolth, and their relationship is at best inconsistent and dysfunctional.

Recovered writings of the scholar Esegrius claim that Lolth was actually responsible in part for Joramy and Vecna's ascension to godhood. Why she would do this is unclear.