Question about priests

[Narmoth]

I read this comic: http://dndorks.com/comics/8%2f15%2f2005.aspx

and I just wonder, would it be possible to create a priest in D&D that has a religion that says it is sinfull to cast spells and get it to work in the gameworld?

[TheElfLord]

Yes, it would.

[TheOOB]

It could work, though the priest wouldn't be a member of the cleric/adept class unless they belive what they do to be miracles instead of spells (A few of ignorance yes, but not totally unforseeable).

However, it should be noted that a religion that forbids spellcasting isn't likely to gain much popularity in a D&D world, magic is a common fact of life in D&D, people cast spells all the time, and a religion that cannot cope with the common facts of life has difficulty getting a large following.

[TheElfLord]

You could still be a cleric/adept, you just wouldn't cast spells. You wouldn't be an effective character, but it's an option. No one forces you to use your class features.

[TheElfLord]

You could still be a cleric/adept, you just wouldn't cast spells. You wouldn't be an effective character, but it's an option. No one forces you to use your class features.

[SpiderBrigade]

I think a lot of fun could be had with a build like this. Put your good stat in Charisma instead of Wisdom, and crank up the Turn Undead. Use all of your feats on Extra Turning or the various Divine feats, so you can use those turn attempts all the time.

Then get into a PrC that advances turn attempts. Unfortunately I can't think of all that many, but Radiant Servant of Pelor would work well for an anti-undead type. You don't gain much from the healing focus, but the greater turning is nice.

[Starsinger]

There's always the hypocritical approach of "spells are evil, but not our spells because our spells are from <insert appropriate source of worship here>"

[Roderick_BR]

I think a lot of fun could be had with a build like this. Put your good stat in Charisma instead of Wisdom, and crank up the Turn Undead. Use all of your feats on Extra Turning or the various Divine feats, so you can use those turn attempts all the time.

Then get into a PrC that advances turn attempts. Unfortunately I can't think of all that many, but Radiant Servant of Pelor would work well for an anti-undead type. You don't gain much from the healing focus, but the greater turning is nice.

And if they see wielding some mystic force that can manipulate un-living creatures as some sort of spell, then they're screwed... XD
An interesting option would be that alternate cleric, with more skill points and some bard abilities.

[Dragonmuncher]

Or, if you want to play the concept without having to nerf yourself, it could just be "all arcane spells are evil, becauses it puts power in the hands of mankind, and mankind is inherently corrupt, look at all the damage magic does, etc."

Which is actually not THAT unusual a theme, in fantasy. If my world was constantly in danger from old men that could turn me into a spider with a brief word, I might get a little bitter, too.

[ocato]

Or just be a monk who wears a robe and preaches about his god. BAM. Priests do not have to be any class really. It's like saying a town guard has to be a fighter.

[SpiderBrigade]

And if they see wielding some mystic force that can manipulate un-living creatures as some sort of spell, then they're screwed... XD
An interesting option would be that alternate cleric, with more skill points and some bard abilities.

Well, yeah, at that point you should just be something other than cleric. Like a paladin. If you really have a problem with all magical abilities, isn't there a PrC that's specifically anti-magic? Renouncer or something like that?

Or just be a monk who wears a robe and preaches about his god. BAM. Priests do not have to be any class really. It's like saying a town guard has to be a fighter.

Yep, that works. Monk, bard, fighter, even barbarian could work. You just carry around a holy symbol and say FOR THE GLORY OF PELOR! a lot

[Penguinsushi]

This, in particular, reminds me of the Forsaker class from one of the 3.0 books (masters of the wild maybe? This may be what SpiderBrigade was getting at) - a pretty cool class that I really wish they'd have 3.5'd in one of the 'complete' books. They not only forswear spells, but all magic in general - and actively crusade against it.

And therein is actually your biggest hurtle: some character classes do just fine without spells, but none can really get by without magic items (unless the entire party does and the game is specifically designed that way). And you can't really revile spells and still use magic items (since they require spells to be created) without some pretty creative/ignorant/munchkin logic.

~PS

[SpiderBrigade]

Forsaker! That's the one. And yeah, I don't think it has a 3.5 update. Sad.

[Amiria]

Hmm, Dragon Shaman (PHBII) can do healing and buffing without casting spells. Of course, it has all this draconic mechanics and flavor, which you might not like.

But it could be a good starting point for making a non-caster priest base class. Maybe change if from dragons to the outsider servants of your deity.

[SpatulaOfDoom]

Err there's the ToB's crusader. No spellcasting there, or you could take the non-spellcasting variant paladin.

[Morgan_Scott82]

Personally I believe the majority of priests in a D&D world are best represented by the Expert NPC class, and are therefore unable to cast spells. Its only the exceptional individual who attains the devotion do a deity required to cast spells and most of those take up an evangelical adventuring lifestyle.

[goat]

Well, for a standard stay at home priest, preaching in their community and the like against the evil heathen magic users, I'd probably agree with the expert thing for building them.

Maxing Int and Charisma, probably topping out knowledge (religion), Profession (preacher), diplomacy, sense motive and all languages. Probably with ranks in spellcraft so you can spot the heathens casting, heal so you can tend wounds and perform (oratory) so you give a good sermon.

Not sure what I'd go for in feats, Probably skill focuses, Negotiator, Leadership, maybe self-sufficient. They're unlikely to be a fighter, so I'd not be happy with giving them much in the way of fighting skills and feats.

[Laesin]

A further option which doesn't match that comic but is feasible is
"Using spells is inherently sinful, but it is a burden that i take upon myself in order to destroy the impure. Should I achieve my goal there will no longer be a place for me as I have joined them in order to defeat them."

[Narmoth]

Okay. Seems that my question was a bit difuse: when I wrote priest, I meant a cleric or divine caster (except paladin and ranger), that would believ his own spellcasting to be sinfull and would refuse to cast arcane or divine spells as a part of his religion. Would he be plaable at all?

[Latronis]

You want to play a full progression divine spell caster that refuses to cast spells?

That's about the equivelent of taking 20 racial HD in humanoid, except you've got knowledge (religion) and simple weapon prof.

[Telonius]

This, in particular, reminds me of the Forsaker class from one of the 3.0 books (masters of the wild maybe? This may be what SpiderBrigade was getting at) - a pretty cool class that I really wish they'd have 3.5'd in one of the 'complete' books. They not only forswear spells, but all magic in general - and actively crusade against it.

And therein is actually your biggest hurtle: some character classes do just fine without spells, but none can really get by without magic items (unless the entire party does and the game is specifically designed that way). And you can't really revile spells and still use magic items (since they require spells to be created) without some pretty creative/ignorant/munchkin logic.

~PS

Some kind of Artificer, maybe? Their infusions are neither divine nor arcane.

[Narmoth]

You want to play a full progression divine spell caster that refuses to cast spells?

That's about the equivelent of taking 20 racial HD in humanoid, except you've got knowledge (religion) and simple weapon prof.

No, I don't want to play that. I just wonder if it's possible at all. He dond't need to be the best build, but he should be able to survive 3 levels in a dungeon.

[Nero24200]

This raises another question

If you worship a god who dislikes spells, would said god even grant divine magic?

[PinkysBrain]

No, I don't want to play that.

Then don't.

You say you want to play a cleric without spells and the end result of that is what Latronis described. For the first 3 levels it wouldn't be that bad, but after that your party would essentially be carrying you ... and forcing that on other players is just poor form IMO.

[Piedmon_Sama]

leik othurs haev sedd u dont need 2 play a cleric 2 be a priest an thers no resunn Y u cudnt play a "Templar" (Fighter/Crusader) or a "Contemplative" (Monk) or even a "Holy Assassin" whos also ordaind clurge

But if u rlly want 2 try a Cleric w/out spells its not taht unresonabel since teh cleric has teh best armor profishunsee 2 start w/u just needs 2 look into teh Divine Feats in PHBII. Complete Warrior & Complete Divine. Get a high Cha for as many turn attempts/day as u can get OTOH teh problum w/dis is most Divine Feats need u 2 B ~5th lvl

Domain choys is also pretty imprtantt My prsnal choys wood B Luck sos u can get a free reroll 1/day but its not spells--its ur God intervenin 4 U. =p

Its an intrstng concept simlar 2 1 I done w/a Nihilist Cleric (his domains wer Luck, w/teh reroll rpresentin his Will-2-Power philosophy, n Death) Good luck!

[Fourth Tempter]

Piedmon--what you are doing is not only against the rules because it's nigh-illegible writing, but as you are doing it to intentionally be an annoyance, it is trolling of the basest sort. As such, I am reporting it.

[Erk]

However, it should be noted that a religion that forbids spellcasting isn't likely to gain much popularity in a D&D world, magic is a common fact of life in D&D, people cast spells all the time, and a religion that cannot cope with the common facts of life has difficulty getting a large following.

I'd say that is entirely a matter of campaign world. Just because PC's can cast spells and use magic items doesn't mean it has to be, or should be, readily available to all NPC's. In such a case they will fear that which they don't understand, and flock to such a religion. VERY common theme.

A nice house-rule for such a world is to allow mundane items with "magical" enhancements that make sense. A keen longsword +1 is just a very, very well-made sword. A defending dagger is a main gauche, with a large protective hilt that doubles as a shield. Et cetera. But I digress.

I recommend you a) use something other than cleric to represent your priest or b) talk your DM into letting you take something instead of cleric spells (eg a fighter bonus feat every 4 levels, 4 more skill points per level, and more class skills) to balance you out. I'd go for B personally... your time spent studying spells is instead spent honing your combat arts and studying religion. You become a more respectable combatant and you get to mesh it with a little skillmonkeying which is much more to a non-caster priest flavour than just being a Fighter would be.

[Quietus]

Easiest solution : Talk to your DM, ask if you can play a Fighter, but switch the normal class skills for those of a Cleric. Problem solved.

Oh, and Fourth - don't even bother. I saw the first few words, then saw that it was Piedmon and ignored the post. Just as everyone else will be doing, I'm certain.

[argentsaber]

how about reserve feats from complete mage? these could be played as divine abilities your god grants you for not casting spells even when tempted. just a thought.

[Jothki]

Reminds me of the Anima in Exile/Avernum 3, who had the philosophy that arcane magic isn't necessarily evil, but it is chaotic, absurdly dangerous, completely unecessary, and that the world would be a better place if it didn't exist. That kind of an organization would probably be reasonable in most settings, though their teachings of self-reliance don't fit as well in a setting with active dieties.