A Wizard's First Feats

[lotofsnow]

I'm in the process of creating a Level 1 LN Silvanesti Elf Wizard (as in RotW substitution level "Elf Wizard") for an Age of Mortals Dragonlance campaign a friend of mine is running in a few weeks.

I decided to take a flaw to get a bonus feat. I chose Spell Focus (Illusion) for my first feat, mostly because I need a Spell Focus feat in either Illusion or Transmutation as prerequisites for the Wizard of High Sorcery Dragonlance Prestige Class.

I'm not sure what to take as a second feat. I got permission to use the "Collegiate Wizard" or "Precocious Wizard" feats from Complete Arcane, but I'm not entirely sure which will benefit me more in the long run.

Collegiate Wizard allows you to star with 6 + Int modifier 1st-level spells (which, with my Elven Wizard substitution level, means I start with 11 1st level spells) and you learn 4 new spells each time you level up instead of the normal 2.

Precocious Wizard allows you to choose one 2nd-level spell and you can prepare and cast it (and only it) in a single 2nd-level slot. You need to defeat a DC 8 caster level check in order to cast it though. Once you can actually cast 2nd-level spells normally, you just gain an extra 2nd-level slot. That is, you are not required to keep preparing and casting that one spell.

Both feats also add +2 bonus to Knowledge (arcana) checks.

I'm not entirely sure which one of these is best. I'm inclined toward Collegiate Wizard, not because of the extra 1st level spells, but because, with my Elven Wizard substitution level, I learn 5 new spells every time I level. That seems pretty decent to me.

I'd appreciate any suggestions or affirmations that my inclination is appropriate. Also, a suggestion for a 3rd level metamagic feat is appreciated as well, since, if I live that long, I'll need to take one.

Thank you in advance for your assistance.

Oh, and if you need my attributes for any reason, with racial modifiers, they are:

STR 13
DEX 19 (modified from 17)
INT 20 (modified from 18)
CON 15 (modified from 17)
WIS 13
CHA 12 (modified from 14)

Yes, I rolled those with a Standard die roll with my DM watching.

Thanks again.

[Sampi]

Nice rolls.

I'd go for Collegiate wizard for the long-run benefits. A single extra 2nd level slot won't look too good later on, but gaining a total of five new spells at each level will make your day. I see no questions about it.

Also, I'd prefer to focus on Transmutation rather than Illusion, but that's your own preference.

[lotofsnow]

Transmutation? Really? I just assumed that the bonus to spell DC would be better used on Illusion. I'm new to this Wizard thing though.

[Marius]

If your DM allows it you could choose "Spellcasting Prodigy", with your int you could get one more 1st level spell plus better DCs.

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/fr/20010418

[SpiderBrigade]

I second the notion that Precocious Wizard isn't a great idea. It boosts your power slightly early on, but you very quickly outpace the benefit, and by level 7 or so you will likely regret taking it.

Thus, Collegiate Wizard, all the way. A wizard's strength is his flexibility and adaptability - the more spells you know, the better. The only consideration here is how open your DM will be with scrolls. If you are pretty much guaranteed to be able to find a scroll of any spell you want, at list price, then the Collegiate Wizard ability seems slightly less cool. In that case you're spending a feat to save money. BUT, if scrolls will be in short supply, that makes the feat even BETTER. So it depends on your DM.

With that said, I would seriously ponder taking Alacritous Cogitation (from complete mage if you can get it approved) as your 3rd-level feat. With the massive number of spells you know, the ability to save one slot that can be used to cast ANY of them is...well, you'll rarely be caught unprepared, put it that way.

[lotofsnow]

Regarding Spellcasting Prodigy, I don't think my DM would allow it since we don't actually have access to that book. I see that it is described in that link you posted, but he can be picky about that sort of thing.

As for Alacritous Cogitation, that's definitely a nice feat. However, to qualify for the Wizard of High Sorcery prestige class I need an additional item creation/metamagic feat by the time I can prepare and cast 2nd level spells. Which means, my level 3 feat has to be metamagic or item creation (suggestions?).

Why, then, take levels in that prestige class? Well, it is kind of a requirement. If I don't, I can be hunted down as a renegade.

So Alacritous Cogitation will probably have to wait until level 6.

It looks like I will take Collegiate Wizard.

Regarding Illusion vs. Transmuation Spell focus, why would Transmutation be better? I assumed that large number of DC checks on Illusion spells would benefit more.

[Maryring]

First of, Strength is your dumpstat above all as a Wizard. Charisma might not be directly useful, but there are some feats that help casters that require Charisma. (Words of Creation springs to mind, but those require you to be good). Second, Collegiate Wizard. Precocious Wizard isn't that good later on.

Transmutation is simply put a better school. Illusion is one of the weaker schools, as the token spells depend a lot on circumstance, your own creativity, and DM rulings. Sure, there are some great spells, but Transmutation is still a better school.

[Telonius]

Collegiate Wizard, yes. For the next couple of levels, check out any Prestige Classes you might want to get into. Loremaster needs Skill Focus (knowledge), Archmage needs Skill Focus (Spellcraft) and two Spell Focus feats. There are lots of other PrC's you could qualify for as well. Anyway, it's important to start planning early for them, and take the prereqs early.

[Marius]

First of, Strength is your dumpstat above all as a Wizard. Charisma might not be directly useful, but there are some feats that help casters that require Charisma. (Words of Creation springs to mind, but those require you to be good). Second, Collegiate Wizard. Precocious Wizard isn't that good later on.

Transmutation is simply put a better school. Illusion is one of the weaker schools, as the token spells depend a lot on circumstance, your own creativity, and DM rulings. Sure, there are some great spells, but Transmutation is still a better school.

True, transmutation is a better school but most of the transmutation spells are buffs or don't require saves while almost all illusion spells allow saves.

[Swooper]

Collegiate Wizard without question. It's kind of a no-brainer for most wizards anyway.

As for the Spell Focus... Well, it depends on what you like to do. Sure, you've got a point that Illusion calls for a lot of saving throws, but you usually need lots of imagination to get the most of it. If that's not your strong side and would prefer to turn your enemies into toads or something of the sort, then Transmutation is more like it. A lot of Transmutation spells are harmless buff type spells though, so you'll likely get more mileage out of putting it in Illusion.

The third level feat could be several things. Extend Spell and Shape Spell are both good for only a single extra spell level, Extend Spell is good with, for an example, the Summon Monster chain, as well as other spells with a short duration. Shape spell is better if you're into AoE spells - like the wonderful 2nd level Illusion spell Glitterdust. Still Spell and Silent Spell are nice if you need to be able to cast spells discreetly. Brew Potion is OK if you have the downtime between adventures available and don't mind spending a few XPs to make potion's of Bull's Strength and Enlarge Person for your fighter buddy, or one of Invisibility for your local rogue. They'll love you if you do. Also, iIrc, PH2 has some rules for transferring XP from other characters when crafting magical items.

Last note: SPECIALIZE! It's not worth it being able to cast spells from every school for not specializing. So pick a school you like, and go over the PHB spell list and find two schools that have the least value to you. Ditch those. I'm not going to recommend anything here, it's all about personal taste and situation.

Hope that helped

[lotofsnow]

First of, Strength is your dumpstat above all as a Wizard.

I understand that. My die rolls were 18, 17, 17, 14, 13, 13. Silvanest Elf racial mods are +2 Int, +2 Dex, -2 Con, -2 Cha.

I decided that a +3 mod to my Con was more important than a +5 to Dex or Int at this time my career, so I applied the 18 to Con, which modifies down to 16.

The 17s became Dex and Int, making both 19 for pretty good modifiers +4.

This leaves me with 14, 13, 13. Should I make the 14 Wisdom? That would give me a +2 ability mod. If I apply it to Cha, it would drop down to only a +1 (due to the -2 racial modifier).

Now that I think of it, maybe I should just apply the 18 to Int for the racial 20 and the +5 modifier. That would mean an additional 1st level spell, plus the benefit of an additional 1st level spell slot! What was I thinking?

Consider my new stats as:

STR 13
DEX 19 (modified from 17)
INT 20 (modified from 18)
CON 15 (modified from 17)
WIS 13
CHA 12 (modified from 14)

No matter what I do, CHA is going to be lowest. That is, unless a sacrifice a more important stat.

[SpiderBrigade]

Swooper, he can't specialize because he took the Elven wizard substitution level, which gives you additional spells known, and 1 bonus spell/day, but disallows specialization.

On the subject of Illusion vs Transmutation for spell focus: I think you're doing the right thing. Transmutation does have some save-or-lose spells, but Illusion has more. It also has the ever-popular Shadow Evocation/Conjuration spells, which really benefit from enhanced saving throws, and enhance your flexibility even further.

[ocato]

Maybe not early on, but at some point, I like Spell Mastery from the phb. Choose a few of the spells you like to keep as "uh oh" spells and you don't have to prepare them. Scribe scroll can be nice for the same reason.

Metamagic feats are fun. I think quicken spell is mentioned regularly by the resident wizard afficianados. Still and Silent will probably save the day for you at some point. I'm not a wizard expert, that's my 2 cents.

[lotofsnow]

SPECIALIZE! It's not worth it being able to cast spells from every school for not specializing. So pick a school you like, and go over the PHB spell list and find two schools that have the least value to you. Ditch those. I'm not going to recommend anything here, it's all about personal taste and situation.

Hope that helped

I completely understand what you're saying about specializing, but I'm really hesitant to deny myself access to possibly hundreds of spells.

And also what SpiderBrigade said about the Elf Wizard substitution level is true.

I think I will probably go for Extend Spell as my level 3 feat. It seems to be all sorts of useful for relatively low cost (I haven't even mentioned Arcane Thesis to my DM yet. I think I might sneak it in later on and wait to see his reaction). Quicken spell is really much too expensive to take a lvl 3 feat. It takes a +4 spell slot, so I wouldn't be able to cast anything with it for quite a while. But I will be getting it later on, you can be sure of that.

[Sampi]

Relooking at the Spell Focus thing I do start to agree with those in favor of Illusion. I just don't like the school that much. The feat would start applying for Trans at spell level 3, with Slow - so you wouldn't get much use of it until level 5. Go with Illusion, then.

[Rad]

• The wizard of high sorcery class is just not that great. At least be sure that you use the updated version in Towers of High Sorcery. I would just take one level for Moon Magic (great flavor) but then leave it. With high Int loremaster is a feat mine.
  
• Passing the Test of High Sorcery is a prerequisite for taking the PrC. Taking the PrC is NOT required not to be called a renegade. Unfortunately most DMs just assume it to be so, but it's not as it was intended. (ditto for Knights of Solamnia/Neraka et al.)
  
• There is no need to enter the PrC as soon as you can either. You can totally wait for wizard level 5, use the bonus feat to qualify and get the PrC at level 6.
  
• The updated WoHS PrC only requires Spell Focus, but it has not to be in one of your order's usual specializations. There are enchanters among the White Robes which appreciate the array of non-lethal weapons that school provides.
  
• Spellcaster Prodigy is in the Age of Mortals sourcebook; it is dragonlance canon now.
  
• If you go for the still/silent spell, go for the sudden variations. You never know when you'll need those and what spell would be needed. Plus, usually your only modified spell per day is enough to get out of the need of those feats.

Ah, and as many pointed out, unless you expect the campaign to last not past level 4 do not pick the 3nd level slot. On the other hand, if you need even more spells in your spellbook just take some WoHS levels; they give some bonus spells known. I'd take some other feat as my general 1st level one.

Hope this helps.

[Sampi]

Still and silent: I would use a rod instead of the Sudden variations. If you want a sudden metamagic feat, pick one that you will use every day.

[Wagadodo]

Also if you are going to be playing through the Key of Destiny adventure packet, let me suggest you take the one that gives you the extra spells every level. This is from a DM that has run it. That is of course if DM runs as is out of the books.

One thing you have to remember if you do take the Order of High Sorcery PRC is that you will have a great deal of vary power by the position of the moon. But have fun, enjoy and don't get stuck with to many pointy things.

[lotofsnow]

• The wizard of high sorcery class is just not that great. At least be sure that you use the updated version in Towers of High Sorcery. I would just take one level for Moon Magic (great flavor) but then leave it. With high Int loremaster is a feat mine.
  
• Passing the Test of High Sorcery is a prerequisite for taking the PrC. Taking the PrC is NOT required not to be called a renegade. Unfortunately most DMs just assume it to be so, but it's not as it was intended. (ditto for Knights of Solamnia/Neraka et al.)
  
• There is no need to enter the PrC as soon as you can either. You can totally wait for wizard level 5, use the bonus feat to qualify and get the PrC at level 6.
  
• The updated WoHS PrC only requires Spell Focus, but it has not to be in one of your order's usual specializations. There are enchanters among the White Robes which appreciate the array of non-lethal weapons that school provides.
  
• Spellcaster Prodigy is in the Age of Mortals sourcebook; it is dragonlance canon now.
  
• If you go for the still/silent spell, go for the sudden variations. You never know when you'll need those and what spell would be needed. Plus, usually your only modified spell per day is enough to get out of the need of those feats.

Ah, and as many pointed out, unless you expect the campaign to last not past level 4 do not pick the 3nd level slot. On the other hand, if you need even more spells in your spellbook just take some WoHS levels; they give some bonus spells known. I'd take some other feat as my general 1st level one.

Hope this helps.

I checked on purchasing the Towers of High Sorcery book, but it looks to be out of print.

I didn't realize that you could take the Test without joining the PrC immediately afterward. The DL Campaign setting reads "In game terms, once a wizard character completes the test, he automatically gains the Wizard of High Sorcery prestige class." I assumed, just as you stated, I must meet the prereqs. before even attempting the Test. I'll run this by my DM and see what he says.

[Lemur]

Here's something that could work well for your character: make him middle-aged.

Your stats would go to:

Str 12
Dex 18
Con 14
Int 21
Wis 14
Cha 13

You don't lose your Dex or Con modifiers, keeping your hitpoints and AC the same, plus your wisdom gets a slight boost. More importantly, you're Int is bumped up one point, so you'll get 22 Int as 4th level instead of 8th. It won't hurt your appearance either, since elves don't really show age so much.

[Telonius]

Excellent idea. Plus, he's an elf. That mean's you'll only live for another - what, 500 years, instead of your normal 700 years, right?

[Swooper]

Swooper, he can't specialize because he took the Elven wizard substitution level, which gives you additional spells known, and 1 bonus spell/day, but disallows specialization.

Oh. I had no idea what that 'Elven wizard subsitution level' is (and I still don't quite get it...) so I just ignored it in my post. Could you explain it better? Substitution level? That's not in my D&D vocabulary

[ocato]

As I understand it, instead of specializing and getting extra spells at the cost of schools, you get some but not as many extra spells with no school-based restrictions.

[SpiderBrigade]

Substitution levels are basically an alternate version of certain class levels, usually limited by race. You get most of the same abilities as the base class, with one or two that are different. For instance a Half-Orc barbarian gets Reckless Charge instead of Uncanny dodge at 2d level, if he takes that substitution level.

In the case of Elven Wizard, it (as mentioned) removes the ability to specialize, but you learn 1 extra spell at every class level, and can gain 1 bonus spell slot of the highest spell level you can cast.

[lotofsnow]

Lemur, that is a fantastic idea! I'll run it by my DM.

Is that info on aging in the DM guide or another sourcebook?

Never mind, found it in the Player's Handbook.

[lotofsnow]

Lemur, that is a fantastic idea! I'll run it by my DM.

Awesome, he said yes.

Thank you everyone for your help. You've given me a lot to think about and I appreciate that.

[Tor the Fallen]

Your third level feat may be better off spent on something immediately useful, rather than an item crafting feat.

I'd take craft wonderous item at 5th level, and skip extend spell. It runs out of usefulness, when you start tossing around the save or die spells.
Spell focus in illusion would be the better school. It will immediately help your glitterdust spell out, and will continue to be useful at higher levels. Transmutation just doesn't have that many offensive spells, and you get access to them later on.

Sculpt spell would be a good 3rd level feat, though I think alacritous cogitation would be the better choice.

[Dhavaer]

Spell focus in illusion would be the better school. It will immediately help your glitterdust spell out

No it won't. Glitterdust is Conjuration.

There are some good save or suck 2nd level Illusions in the Spell Compendium, though. Shadowspray and Phantasmal Assailants in particular.

[Jack_Simth]

...Spell focus in illusion would be the better school. It will immediately help your glitterdust spell out...

Umm... Glitterdust is Conjouration. Unless you're mimicing it with Shadow Conjouration (with Spell Focus (Illusion), you can get a LOT of mileage out of the [Shadow] line of spells).

Extend Spell remains useful later on - especially when you have advance notice of what you'll be doing the next day - by way of letting a spell cast one day continue running the next, costing no slot as far as adventuring is concerned (at least on that first day). At 20th, prep all your 9th level slots with Extended Mind Blanks, and spam them on the party. The next day, prepare something else and enter the dungeon, perhaps keeping a Mind Blank or two around in case one is dispelled. Again, on the first day, fill your 8th level slots with Statue - at an hour a level, it will fairly readily last deep into the next day (ditto for an Extended Mage Armor, but at that point, who cares about your 1st level spell slots?). An Overland Flight Extended into the next day is also very handy.

Earlier, it's handy for little things like an Extended Rope Trick for when the party needs rest, and you're in an awkward location (5th level).

[Tor the Fallen]

Umm... Glitterdust is Conjouration. Unless you're mimicing it with Shadow Conjouration (with Spell Focus (Illusion), you can get a LOT of mileage out of the [Shadow] line of spells).

I meant Color Spray, but typed Glitterdust for some reason.

Extend Spell remains useful later on - especially when you have advance notice of what you'll be doing the next day - by way of letting a spell cast one day continue running the next, costing no slot as far as adventuring is concerned (at least on that first day). At 20th, prep all your 9th level slots with Extended Mind Blanks, and spam them on the party. The next day, prepare something else and enter the dungeon, perhaps keeping a Mind Blank or two around in case one is dispelled. Again, on the first day, fill your 8th level slots with Statue - at an hour a level, it will fairly readily last deep into the next day (ditto for an Extended Mage Armor, but at that point, who cares about your 1st level spell slots?). An Overland Flight Extended into the next day is also very handy.

Earlier, it's handy for little things like an Extended Rope Trick for when the party needs rest, and you're in an awkward location (5th level).

I usually found that at the low levels when I wanted an extended spell the most, it was usually more valuable to use the higher level spell slot on a high level spell.

Using extend spell to run into the next day is useful, though, if you've got the prep time.