New! But is it improved?

[silentknight]

I have decided to run a low-magic campaign and as part of this I have cut down on the types of spellcasting classes. I have replaced the sorcerer and wizard with the Magister from Arcana Unearthed. I got rid of bard and paladin, and replaced the ranger's spellcasting with combat rites (also Arcana Unearthed, but that doesn't matter right now).

Now to my point: I have combined the cleric and druid into one class and I was wondering how balanced or unbalanced this "new" class seems.

What I did:
The class as a whole is based on the druid: spellcasting, animal companion, and most of the nature based abilities. But I have replaced the druid's spontaneous summon ability with the cleric's spontaneous cure ability and got rid of wild shaping altogether. In its place the druid/cleric can turn undead and, at higher levels, turn/rebuke plants as well as elementals. The druid/cleric can also wear metal armor, but suffers from possible spell failure when doing so.

So, what do you all think? How does the druid/cleric stack up against the standard PHB classes including the regular druid and cleric? Does this seem like a good choice if I wanted to muzzle CoDzilla? And for those of you familiar with the Magister, how powerful would the cleric/druid be in comparison.

[Droodle]

If you're trying to muzzle CoDzilla, I think you've failed. This is going to be just as (over)powerful as a normal druid or cleric. Considering that you've already muzzled arcane casting to the nth degree, this class is going to be ridiculously over-powered compared to the other non-caster and (what's left of the) other caster classes.

[selfcritical]

If you're trying to muzzle CoDzilla, I think you've failed. This is going to be just as (over)powerful as a normal druid or cleric. Considering that you've already muzzled arcane casting to the nth degree, this class is going to be ridiculously over-powered compared to the other non-caster and (what's left of the) other caster classes.

Making casters Magisters isn't "muzzling" them.....it's using a balanced magic system.

[silentknight]

Three options I just thought of:

1) Require a Concentration or Spellcraft check to cast spells (only effective at low levels)

2) Reduce number of spells per day.

3) Increase casting times of all spells to at least 1 round.

Would any of these help bring down the power level?

Edit: I originally thought to combine druid and cleric so that there would still be a healbot and a nature-type spellcaster available to players. Any suggestions on a druid-type spellcaster that would match the Magister in balance?

[Fax Celestis]

I would recommend tossing the druid/cleric combo you've got, and replacing it with a Favored Soul or Spirit Shaman that learns spells from any divine list.

[Skjaldbakka]

Just use Greenbond and change the flavor. Or not, since you are already trying to smush Cleric and Druid, just use greennbond with the flavor. Sure, greenbond has some doofy quirks, but you could just modify those.

Also, in terms of magic, magisters (actually, just AE casters) have more powerful blow-it-up magic than D&D wizards, since only a very small number of things resist elemental damage, and AE casters can use sorcerous blast at the same time D&D casters get fireball or lightning bolt (two very commonly resisted energy types). As such, AE doesn't necessarily contribute well to a 'low magic' setting.

Another note in terms of AE casters, is that AE is very heavy on buff spells, with spells like Canny effort (gives a +10 bonus on a skill check, when heightened, which can really aggravate the 'skill' character, at least at low level), Bash/Seeker (+5 to-hit/dmg on next melee or ranged attack), and Subtle Steps (+10 Sneak for hours/level). Beastskin is also a visible magical effect that in a low-magic-item campaign, most of your party will wind up with.

[silentknight]

I know that the Favored Soul is effectively the divine sorcerer but I'm not really familiar with the Spirit Shaman.

What I was aiming for was a nature-based class (not necessarily a spellcaster) that can turn undead (so that the party wouldn't be handicapped when fighting them). I was also trying to get some healing in there.

Would the Spirit Shaman fill that roll?

Edit: Skjaldbakka, I'm only using the Magister class, not the AE spells.

[Jasdoif]

I know that the Favored Soul is effectively the divine sorcerer but I'm not really familiar with the Spirit Shaman.

What I was aiming for was a nature-based class (not necessarily a spellcaster) that can turn undead (so that the party wouldn't be handicapped when fighting them). I was also trying to get some healing in there.

Would the Spirit Shaman fill that roll?

Spirit Shamans have a Censure Spirits ability (pretty sure that's the name), you could make that work for your turning needs.

And Spirit Shaman is in Complete Divine, same as the Favored Soul.

[Skjaldbakka]

Edit: Skjaldbakka, I'm only using the Magister class, not the AE spells.

Wahuh? You do realize that ramps up the magic in your campaign, right? The magister with a D&D spell list is flat out better than sorceror or wizard. I'm not saying that's bad, but you said you were shooting for a low-magic setting. Honestly, I would take out wizard, sorceror, druid and cleric, and run Bard as the spellcasting class, for a low-magic setting solution. I would also keep in Paladin and Ranger, with spells. I think having a larger number of classes that are 'half-casters' is a better low-magic solution than having any class that is a 'full caster'.

[silentknight]

Ergh! Wow, I really didn't explain myself all that fully in my OP did I?

What I mean by low magic is that there will be little in the way of magic items and those the players run into will be low power. Therefore, I wanted the spellcasters to be more powerful (all the classes actually), if only slightly.

I am liking the sound of the Spirit Shaman, though. I will have to borrow my friend's ComDiv.

[Fourth Tempter]

In low-magic settings, spellcasters actually have even more of an advantage than usual. You do not need to empower spellcasters. It is the warriors, who will have miserable Armor Classess and low-for-the-level Attack Bonuses and saving throws without magic items, whom you should worry about.

[Human Paragon 3]

Use the generic Spellcaster from the SRD. Players can make their own clerics, druids, and sorcerers any way they want them.

[silentknight]

After considering the advice provided, I have decided that cutting all full casters and replacing them with the Bard is the best option for low-magic. I will also keep the Ranger (for the nature-type caster I wanted) and Paladin (for the healer-type caster I also wanted) because they are "half-casters" and work with the low-magic theme.

Now, a new question...

Which of the remaining classes need a boost to make up for limited magic, in both items and spells, available to a party?

[Tellah]

Have you talked to your players about this? If your players don't think that sounds like a fun campaign, it doesn't really matter how balanced or internally consistent it is.

[silentknight]

No, I haven't talked to all of them, but the ones I have are liking it. And, yeah, if the group decides not to play low-magic, then I will do something else. But I have had a low-magic campaign in the back of my mind for a while now, so I would like to give it a go.

[Skjaldbakka]

You are using combat rites, correct? Give the warmain combat rite progression to all the non-caster fighter classes, the oathsworn progression to the monk, and (most importantly), balance your encounters for your party.

Generally, if you throw lots of MM stuff, the monsters will be harder for the CR. If you throw things with levels at the PCs, it should be a fair match-up, because they should have less magic items that the PCs.

You could also consider using the athame progression from mageblade.

[silentknight]

Thank you Skjaldbakka, your input has been most helpful, and your suggestions about combat rites mirror my own thoughts.