How to defeat the greatest enemy

[Pauwel]

First of all: PETER OG/ELLER RENÉ! I MÅ IKKE LÆSE DETTE! DET VIL ØDELÆGGE HISTORIEN FOR JER, SÅ LAD NU FOR FANDEN VÆRE!







With that said, I'm planning the basic story and the major villains for an upcoming Planescape Campaign of mine. Basically, a patriot-crusader has blocked off their world so that it's impossible for them to travel back, and the campaign will revolve around the party finding out who did it and why.
The patriot (Sirion Magnificus) is trying to siphon the energy of the PCs' world so that he can use it to regain entrance to his own world; he's basically been cast out for studying the Dark Arts of Wizardry (which magic is considered to be in his homeworld).
However, he believes that he has the right to sacrifice another world in place of his own because he has been misled by a Greater Power called Lavernos, who's also known as the Divine Comedian.
Lavernos is basically a god of black humour, believing that life is too fragile to take seriously. In his practical jokes he has often destroyed entire demiplanes, and this is just another one of his schemes.

Without getting into the more intricate details, I now face a problem: The players won't be happy just defeating Sirion and his various allies. They'll want to take on the Divine Comedian himself. After all, he is the true villain, the manipulator behind the scenes, and they're going to loathe him for his uncaringness.
I've thought that he could manifest himself into a mortal form (or just pretend to do so), and that his reasoning could be that he wanted to mock them, but it just doesn't really add up for me. Lavernos wouldn't let himself be killed, which is why he could just let the PCs believe that he's dead while he really isn't, but there's just something missing.

So... does anyone have any ideas on how a couple of (most likely) 12th level Gestalt characters or so can take on a Greater Power?

EDIT: I edited the title. Now my players reading the forums have a chance to actually know who's writing the thread before it's too late.

[Reinboom]

As a god? You don't.
The god's avatar or aspect? Possible but very very unlikely.

Beyond this, may I get more information on how planescape's gods work?
Specifically, in FR, when a good loses followers, they also lose power (thanks to the time of troubles), so you could debase a god. Also, a god's manifestation could be captured, disrupting their divine powers, though this is extremely difficult.
There's also the problem that gods that prefer balance usually will not condone the killing of a deity.
Debasing their followers, removing their foundation, and provoking and eventually sealing away or killing their aspect or avatar afterwards is perhaps the only real chance.
Again, that's if planescape works in ways similar to FR though.

[Edo]

So... does anyone have any ideas on how a couple of (most likely) 12th level Gestalt characters or so can take on a Greater Power?

Plenty... or do you mean "take on, win, and conceivably survive"?

Because at 12th level gestalt, there is NOTHING that 12th level gestalt PCs can directly do to a greater deity that would bother it in the slightest. Except maybe persuade a LOT of other, equally powerful deities to take the offender out for you. (Good luck doing that, by the way.)

[Hamster_Ninja]

Like SweetRein suggested, the best way to go about this if you want them to stand a chance is have them go on several adventures to do things like weaken the Comedian (temporarily or permanently), garnering support from other gods and getting powerful weapons, all of which also confer the benefit of having the chance to level once or twice to stand a better chance. Just warn them if they decide to try and take him of his power and subtly nudge them to try and better the odds.

[The_Snark]

I'd make it a quest, rather than a fight; the PCs are obviously outclassed in a fight, so now they have to steal an obscure deity-slaying artifact from an ancient temple/deathtrap complex/ruined city near the heart of the earth/deep in the desert/on the moon. Or have them awaken the product of a long-forgotten race who bred a creature designed to slay a god. This is new quest material, for when they've finished with your other villains.

Planescape is very expansive, so somewhere, on some plane, it would make sense for there to be something like this. You probably don't want your players running around with a god-slaying artifact, though, so it could have a clause like the Annulus—once used to destroy a Power or artifact, it is destroyed itself. You could even combine the two hooks if you feel like it; the Creature is the only thing reasonably capable of killing the god, but they don't want it running around loose afterwards, so they need to find the artifact, then release the Creature, and then destroy the creature with the artifact once it's suitably vanquished the Divine Comedian.

If they show no signs of going to find the artifact/free the Creature, an aspect of the god could defeat them and choose to spare them, just to humiliate them and impress the futility of their efforts on them.

[Narmoth]

I'd make it a quest, rather than a fight; the PCs are obviously outclassed in a fight, so now they have to steal an obscure deity-slaying artifact from an ancient temple/deathtrap complex/ruined city near the heart of the earth/deep in the desert/on the moon. Or have them awaken the product of a long-forgotten race who bred a creature designed to slay a god. This is new quest material, for when they've finished with your other villains.

I think this sounds as a good idea. You can also have the group to weaken the god by visiting everyone of his temples (he might not have so many if he is a very uncaring god) and convert (not slay) his worshippers to abandon the worship of Lavernos. When he is weakened, you can send the group after some artifact in a long lost world that will enable the group to do real damage to the god. This could be a set of daggers equating the nuber of players in the group that has to be used on the same being at the same time to be effective (making the group unikely suited to use this artifact). Of course, the artifact isn't guarded by monsters and traps only, but the group will have to convince some guardian of the item to let the group try to collect the item as a conclusion of several tests proving them to be worthy of vielding it.
All this should have leveled the group to a more suitable level for going god-hunting, and hopefully they have weakened the god from greater to intermidiate or lesser status. I think that the god will at first find the groups very amusing, and then suddenly realise that they are a real treath. He will then put all his power on the task of killing them, sending avatars, worshippers and magical beasts after them. But having come so far (and the group should have aquired some magic that could either harm him or banish him from the plane they are upon), he will be afraid of facing the group face to face at this point.

"lykke til"

[lord_khaine]

really, they wont start a chance at all, without some sort of divine backup to avoid Lave just beaming down and killing them when it stops being fun.

maybe their quest could start with revealing some of those pranks he have done on his fellow gods?

[Dervag]

I'd go with having the PCs find a way to lock him away somewhere without killing him, and try to divert their attentions to that end.

To accomplish this, they'll have to do something big and ambitious and probably fight some kind of avatar of the god. But they won't have to fight an entity capable of demolishing entire demiplanes as a practical joke directly.

If I remember Planescape rightly, you could also find some way to lure him near the Spire, where divine powers don't work properly.

[Premier]

Why is it that PCs must be allowed to take on and defeat everything they set their sights on?

Oh, wait, it isn't so. If your players/PCs are stupid enough not to realise the futility of confronting a god, then let them reap the consequences and have the characters die.

[Cyborg Pirate]

Why is it that PCs must be allowed to take on and defeat everything they set their sights on?

Oh, wait, it isn't so. If your players/PCs are stupid enough not to realise the futility of confronting a god, then let them reap the consequences and have the characters die.

If this is done in a cool way (say a really nice set of objective during a "battle" with this divine trickster which after their deaths leaves him weakned), the player could actually enjoy it.

Also, a god that pulls such pranks is bound to have a couple of divine enemies. These should be good as divine support for the players.

[Stevenson]

Well, how about taking a page out of Loki from AoM's book. You kill him, what you thought was "him" is actually just a bunch of (animal that represents this god best). As as prankster, I'd guess he had some powerful illusions, such as making illusions seem real (so as for it to put up a fight.)

[Renx]

Once you start raiding his temples, a Greater God would most certainly put some of his minions on a Quest to get your people...

[Indon]

Just an FYI, generally deities native to another plane don't actually die if slain on the material plain; they generally return to their home plane. If the PC's want to get rid of this god permanently, they may have to follow him through the darkest of dark lands and strike at him at his grim citadel, etc.

[Bagera]

He's the god of dark comedy... so have a chat with him and allow the players to convince him of the dark comedy inherent in lowly PCs killing a god, and you'll have him bearing his breast for their daggers in moments.

[Knight_Of_Twilight]

Maybe they have to find an item to summon a being of equal power to take him down?

[Closet_Skeleton]

A variation on the "find the god-killing artifact" theme is "find the god-sustaining artifact".

Maybe he has some kind of contract given to him by an overdiety that he needs to use his powers. Maybe he has an object of emotional value that the heroes can steal to use as a barganing tool. Maybe he used to be a mortal and the artifact that made him a god can be used to unmake him. Maybe he has some kind of limit to his actions (such as he has to do ironic stuff) so that if you are able to "out trick the trickster" then he'll lose his powers.

[mikeejimbo]

If slaying the Divine Comedian is the last thing they will do in the campaign, and the DM can always declare it over after that anyway, then I have a suggestion.

Let the players become gods.

This would certainly involve a series of quests. For one thing, they'd have to find some ancient legend about mortals becoming gods, and then a quest where they follow the steps to become immortal (Divine Rank 0). Then make them recruit worshipers.

Also, they ought to be Epic Level.

[Umarth]

You know if this is a true planescape campaign then the Yugoloths are probably behind it.

Let's look at it this way:

1) Yugoloths come up with a plan requiring possession/capture of Lavernos.
2) Yugoloths arrange for Lavernos to learn of a way to sacrifice a world to re-enter a world you are barred from.
3) Yugoloths turn a world against magic until that world views everything magical as "Dark Wizardy".
4) Yugoloths agents teach Sirion Magnificus magic.
5) Yugoloths arrange for world to banish and bar Sirion from his home world.
6) Yugoloth agents arrange for a Sirion to meet with agents of Lavernos.
7) Yugoloths arrange for PCs to be off their home world.
8) Lavernos agents teach Sirion ritual to re=enter his own world.
9) Yugoloths plant details on how to "create" an item to kill Lavernos by fusing a priest of Lavernos, a Modron, and a Salaad in the center of the plane of Limbo. (Fake ritual says: Limbo stuff can randomly morph into anything. By adding a modron into the mix you control what's created. As the plane of Limbo is ever changing any point can be it’s center. This ritual should require them to do some horrible things to the priest, modron, and salaad as the Yugoloths are fond of spreading misery and corruption.)
10) Yugoloths teleport Lavernos capture device they created to the PCs location when they complete the "ritual".
11) PCs have to kill an Aspect of Lavernos with said device. (theoretically the device kills Lavernos when the avatars essence is reabsorbed after it's death)
12) Lavernos is ripped from his home and captured in a Yugoloth prison on Carceri.
13) In a final act of divine will before being fully captured Lavernos, having realized what's going on, reveals to the PCs they have been dupes of the Yugoloths the whole time in a giant "divine comedy".

Now we have a nice and reasonable way and why the PCs where able to take down a greater power.

They also now get to decide if they are willing to leave Lavernos in the hands of the Yugoloths and let them complete what ever goal they have. This is where the DM should drop some heavy hints as to the horrible things the Yugoloths could do with Lavernos' power.

If they are interested in stopping them the solution of course is is Sirion’s home world.

We also get some nice planescapesq things going on:

Rule of Threes:
Three foes the PCs must face. Sirion, Lavernos, Yugoloths
Three creatures in the fake Yugoloth ritual

Center of the Multiverse – nod to this on where the ritual must take place.

Unity of Rings – To finally put a stop the all the Yugoloths plans the PCs must travel back to Sirions’ home world where it all started.

[JaronK]

Technically, you could just use an Ice Assassin of the diety in question, preferably using Eschew Materials so you can make a bunch of them without actually getting bits of gods.

Just a thought.

JaronK

[Illiterate Scribe]

Remember, if you can fight him in an outlands planar bubble (or since you're in Planescape, at the base of the Sigil Spire - even better) he loses all of his magic and divine ranks. Admittedly, so do you, but at least it's doable then - warblades or rogues should have a chance.