The Depression Thread

[Sisqui]

Most of this forum is humorous, and he thinks this paticular thread is supposed to be funny.

LOL, I wonder what part of "The Depression Thread" would give someone that idea?

[sheepofoblivion]

... It's common knowledge in my school that many "emo or depressed people" cut themselves... Sort of an inside my school joke thing... a ma bob....

[Sisqui]

... It's common knowledge in my school that many "emo or depressed people" cut themselves... Sort of an inside my school joke thing... a ma bob....

Well, based on the question then, I would guess you either need to more carefully consider how that joke would go over in the particular thread you're in- or you genuinely need serious help. Which is it?

[sheepofoblivion]

who knows.... Maybe I do need some help... (ask my (imaginary) friends, they'll probably agree *cuts self)

[Sisqui]

who knows.... Maybe I do need some help... (ask my (imaginary) friends, they'll probably agree *cuts self)

If that is a legitimate statement, there is no maybe about it. I ask you again. Which is it?

[sheepofoblivion]

... .... Sure... the first one... It was supposed to be a (if lame or unfitting (is that a word?) ) joke.... I do not actually cut myself and may be a bit on the pessemistic side, but probably not depressed (seriously).

[averagejoe]

Yes, indeed. I spotted your post just after that magical 'Send' button was pressed. However, even so I think you oversimplify things. I understand this is probably a huge tangent from the rest of the thread, so I shall continue the spoiler way.

Spoiler

Show

You mention that things like bulimia need an action of will to improve. Now, either this is totally trivial (even a schizophrenic needs to actually take his drugs, even a cancer patient needs to actually go to chemotherapy, etc.), or it still may not necessarily be the case. Bulimia is a terribly complex condition, and it is entirely possible for there to be sufferers out there for whom no amount, literally no amount of good will and strength of mind will help their condition on its own. For these people, drugs may well be essential. And once this possibility is understood, it becomes conceivable that there are people for whom, with the right drugs, the rest becomes easy.

Basically, what I'm trying to stress is that there's no singular theory, no singular cause, for these conditions, so no matter what you're looking at to say definitively "drugs are not enough" seems almost callous to me, as there will be people that need the drugs. There's also a certain unfalsifiability to the idea that if drugs alone don't help then clearly the individual isn't trying hard enough. One conclusion I often see scarily drawn from this is that if someone needs drugs then they're also not trying hard enough. I guess if I had to boil this down to a core issue, it would be: "if you remove drugs (and all the biology that comes with that), cognitive-behaviour therapy, etc., what is this 'force of will' that we're left with?" I understand that one needs to not expect a passive approach to getting better to work, but beyond saying "go to a professional, and listen to them" I don't see what more there is to it. Of course that just opens up the can of worms of how capable someone really is of seeking help if they have a serious condition... Oh dear.

Anyway, I also think that my second point still stands though that a thread for collects woes can indeed encourage them.

I don't think that's what she was saying at all. It isn't that meds are never the right thing, but it's that personal initiative matters a lot. In fact, I find that's true in general. Something I hear all the time is, "The secret to X is Y," but the truth is that there is no secret to doing anything. Sure, you can get some useful advice and helpful hints, but in the end you have to just grit your teeth and do it.

For a few years (or so) I was pretty depressed. I would sit in my room for hours on end trying to work up the courage to just give one of my friends a call, and I would never seem to go through with it. I would want to be with someone else so bad, just to hang out and talk and do normal stuff, because that made it hurt less, but I could never seem to do it. I'm much better now, but I still have nights where I won't go outside my apartment even to eat, just because I don't want to run into anyone who will recognise me. Heck, I never even talked about this to anyone until after the fact; most people who know me were suprised to find out.

There are some days where I feel like I could take on the world. There are some days where I feel like I could take on the world, that I have the world in my palm, and that all I have to do is close my fingers around it, but I won't for whatever stupid mental reason. The thing is, however, that for me to get out of my depression, I had to realize that there would be no one besides me bailing me out. Even when I realized that it wasn't easy; sometimes I still have trouble initiating contact with people. Change for the better is most often slow, painful, and hard-just ask anyone who has tried to loose weight. However, the responsibility ultimately rests with the person trying to make the change.

There's something an old teacher of mine used to say. I didn't used to think it was true, but as I've grown I've come to think that maybe it is. He would say, "You know what the difference is between a good excuse and a bad one? There is none." I'm not saying that meds never help. Indeed, I sometimes wonder if my own climb out of depression might have been easier with medication. However, it is up to the person to take the next step. I'm not saying that anyone who is taking meds isn't trying hard enough. All I'm saying is that, "I cannot do this," is a much less healthy attitude than, "I can, and will, do this. Now let's figure out how." Whenever someone tells me that I can't do something, my answer is invariably, "**** you, I can do anything I want if I choose to." (Well, I'm never that rude to people in real life...) I'm not saying that this is "the secret" to good mental health. However, I'd bet that such an attitude is at least as helpful as most medication.

[Serpentine]

I don't know if this applies to your reasons for being uneasy or not but one thing I have noticed is that people will put their doctors in the dominant role in their relationship. They seem to assume that the doctor is in control and then they take this pill and change that habit etc... based on what the doctors say. But a doctor is a private contractor. YOU have hired HIM. He is the employee. Seeing the relationship that way can be very empowering in that you get to be much less shy about asserting yourself. After all, you are the one footing the bill. If you don't like the quality of the work or his personality- FIRE HIM!

To be fair, a doctor can only advise based on what you tell her, too. Take my grandmother, for example. Near the end of her life, she was in extraordinary pain. She was only ever eating when meals on wheels turned up, and that wasn't every day. Various members of the family were furious at her doctor for not looking after her properly, so my aunt finally accompanied her to her appointment. It went like this:
Doc: So how have you been?
Gramma: Oh, okay...
Aunt: WHAT?! Mum, you've been in agony!

So yeah. If you don't tell your doctor exactly how you're depressed, she can't help your depression. If you don't tell her that you're uncomfortable with relying on medication, she can't advise you on other options. If you don't tell her the effects of the medication on you, she can't consider whether to change you. If you don't tell her, she doesn't know, and she can't treat you properly.

[13_CBS]

Heh, whaddya know. I try to get back on my feet and cheer myself up, but life decides to remind me of how much I suck.

"Ok, punk, you're not going to cheer up. Not on our watch."

Edit: Rofl, if I didn't know any better I could almost whine about how a greater power seems to want to keep me depressed.

[Sisqui]

Heh, whaddya know. I try to get back on my feet and cheer myself up, but life decides to remind me of how much I suck.

"Ok, punk, you're not going to cheer up. Not on our watch."

Edit: Rofl, if I didn't know any better I could almost whine about how a greater power seems to want to keep me depressed.

All I can say to that post is:

To be fair, a doctor can only advise based on what you tell her, too. Take my grandmother, for example. Near the end of her life, she was in extraordinary pain. She was only ever eating when meals on wheels turned up, and that wasn't every day. Various members of the family were furious at her doctor for not looking after her properly, so my aunt finally accompanied her to her appointment. It went like this:
Doc: So how have you been?
Gramma: Oh, okay...
Aunt: WHAT?! Mum, you've been in agony!

So yeah. If you don't tell your doctor exactly how you're depressed, she can't help your depression. If you don't tell her that you're uncomfortable with relying on medication, she can't advise you on other options. If you don't tell her the effects of the medication on you, she can't consider whether to change you. If you don't tell her, she doesn't know, and she can't treat you properly.

Actually, this goes along with what I was saying about depression and with my later post you quoted. You have to take the initiative- you have to take charge of your health. It is YOUR responsibility. The doctor is an advisor, YOU are the decider. And if you don't get assertive, if you just sit there and do whatever the doctor tells you (or worse, if you feel like telling your doctor what is wrong is just whining and wasting his time) YOU WON'T GET BETTER! And it won't be the doctor's fault. YOU have to get a doctor you are comfortable with. YOU have to get a doctor who will listen to your complaints. YOU have to get a doctor who doesn't make you feel as if you are a petitioner begging for his attention within the confines of his own private sanctum. Whether it is your depression or some other aspect of your health, you can't just tell your MD "Well, whatever you decide" as if HE is the one with the most interest in the outcome of the decision. And most of all, you have to accept that you have the RIGHT to demand these things. If your doctor doesn't measure up- like I said, fire him. You don't need a second rate employee deciding your health issues for you. But, that comes with a caveat: if you take back the decision making power that is rightfully your own- YOU are the one ultimately responsible. You aren't going to hurt the doctor any by keeping your medical complaints to yourself. YOU are the one who will suffer for it. You wouldn't want an electrician rewiring your house unless he knew all the pertinent facts. You shouldn't want your doctor medicating you with less than full disclosure on your part either. That is YOUR responsibility.

[13_CBS]

Confusing post, eh? The gist is this: I've taken some of the advice given here and so I've tried to not be so glum. But today and yesterday just...put me in a very bad mood again.

I think another of my recent emotional issues stem from my long run of complete lack of self esteem. Events from yesterday and today only reinforced it.

And the fact that I have no friends anymore is probably doing me a number, as well.

[Don Julio Anejo]

Woo! I'm doing a specialized training course for helping people who are thinking and/or are about to commit suicide in about 2 weeks! Should be good...

[Rex Idiotarum]

Everyone I have ever considered a good friend has turned their back on me.

I never thought that until you did as well.

I don't care anymore, I'll go back to hating everyone, to being cynical, bitter, and evil. And if you wanted to kill whatever part of me that cared. Well, then good for you. I guess I'm not meant to have friends.

It's the same thing now that happened that day.

Already depressed, that girl yelling at me, screaming that everyone hates me, that no one will ever like me. Pressured by the crowd, my "Friends" backed her up. Well what does it matter?

I tried being friendly, it gets me stepped on. If I'm doing this from now on, it will be by my way, or I'll just face exile. I'd rather have hatred and mistrust, than the crushing sound my soul makes upon you dropping me like a hot potato because someone from the popular crowd doesn't like me. That's the thing I loved you, you were above the crowd, you did things in your own way, what changed? A few words from a silver tongue, and suddenly I'm the enemy. And the moment someone does to them what they did to you, then who will be left?

It's always the same thing, I've seen it a million times, when someone I considered a friend betrayed me, just so that they could get into the "Cool" crowd.

I am angry, I am kind of sad, but, can I say I'm surprised? No. It's the story of my life.

[Siligero]

Depression? Well, I can't say I'm depressed, but more like in a furious angry rage. Because people are stupid. Reeeeeally stupid. More stupid than I can even imagine. No, literally. I cannot fathom the depths of mental futility plumbed by the denizens of this earth. It drives me to insanity. Failing that, it drives me to a ridiculous cynicality that mutes all hope for the human race. It's like over half of the population is devolving mentally, but unable to adapt physically, leaving useless beings with no way to survive other than to utilize a small metal square to flip the patty of their lower middle class lives, just to serve the fruit of their labors to other obese, unintelligent, too-lazy-to-perform-menial-tasks citizens exactly like them. I mean, I know I'm exaggerating, but when less than 3% of people the United States of America even read books on a daily basis (in fact, it's rather disgusting how reading is shunned), you know something's wrong.

[Sisqui]

Depression? Well, I can't say I'm depressed, but more like in a furious angry rage. Because people are stupid. Reeeeeally stupid. More stupid than I can even imagine. No, literally. I cannot fathom the depths of mental futility plumbed by the denizens of this earth. It drives me to insanity. Failing that, it drives me to a ridiculous cynicality that mutes all hope for the human race. It's like over half of the population is devolving mentally, but unable to adapt physically, leaving useless beings with no way to survive other than to utilize a small metal square to flip the patty of their lower middle class lives, just to serve the fruit of their labors to other obese, unintelligent, too-lazy-to-perform-menial-tasks citizens exactly like them. I mean, I know I'm exaggerating, but when less than 3% of people the United States of America even read books on a daily basis (in fact, it's rather disgusting how reading is shunned), you know something's wrong.

Well, is a lesser being such as myself at least allowed to point out that the word is "cynicism"? I mean, I may be stupid, but at least I know that much. Time to go flip my patty again.......

[Cyrano]

Depression? Well, I can't say I'm depressed, but more like in a furious angry rage. Because people are stupid. Reeeeeally stupid. More stupid than I can even imagine. No, literally. I cannot fathom the depths of mental futility plumbed by the denizens of this earth. It drives me to insanity. Failing that, it drives me to a ridiculous cynicality that mutes all hope for the human race. It's like over half of the population is devolving mentally, but unable to adapt physically, leaving useless beings with no way to survive other than to utilize a small metal square to flip the patty of their lower middle class lives, just to serve the fruit of their labors to other obese, unintelligent, too-lazy-to-perform-menial-tasks citizens exactly like them. I mean, I know I'm exaggerating, but when less than 3% of people the United States of America even read books on a daily basis (in fact, it's rather disgusting how reading is shunned), you know something's wrong.

I agree! I mean, seriously, most people everywhere are stupid. Like, 95% of everyone I know is stupid. And most of the people I don't.
Wait.
95%. Those aren't good odds. Especially since Sisqui already posted here.
So.... why am I listening to you?
Possibly because you're misguided. And your facts are wrong. Honestly, I understand you're venting and being over the top, but even you can see the economy does not rest on beef patties and processing. I'm not a psychiatrist or even a nice guy, so I'm not going to attempt to guide you through whatever made you spit this stream of bile at the world, but please at least attempt not to exagerate quite so heavily. Or nastily.

[Rex Idiotarum]

You wanna find some iffy people, chill at a community college. I mean, I have had brilliant conversations with older students and teachers, but other times, I've had conversations which kinda shut me off of them. Biggest conversational turnoff for me is to state something that is completely obvious to me as if it were something extraordinary.

Still, I would have you refrain from that talk about patty flipping. having worked at a few fast food restaurants myself, I can tell you that the people flipping patties are 16 year old high school students or Illegal Aliens, both of which work there because they have no where else to turn. Try to get a whitecollar job when you can barely speak English. Even then, they work 40 hour weeks, and then they have a second 40 hour week as well.

People aren't stupid. I say this fully knowing that stupidity is a subjective term. Most people have talents, something that makes them good.

A Cynic is a Pessimist with people. You seem too focused on society's faults, that you fail to realize that there is no society. There is just persons. Talk to a person some time, and your life can be changed forever.

[averagejoe]

You wanna find some iffy people, chill at a community college. I mean, I have had brilliant conversations with older students and teachers, but other times, I've had conversations which kinda shut me off of them. Biggest conversational turnoff for me is to state something that is completely obvious to me as if it were something extraordinary.

I'm curious as to why this is. I've never been considered one of mean intelligence, at least if the people in my life can be believed. Even so, or perhaps because of this, I can find great pleasure in appreciating mundane things which are nonetheless extraordinary. *shrug* Maybe it's because I'm a scientist. We're all a bit mad when it comes to things like this.

[Sisqui]

Actually, Rex, a lot of these "McJobs" as they are called are a necessary part of the economy: low skill, entry level jobs that allow relatively untried and unskilled workers to gain experience before moving onwards and upwards in the work force. These jobs give people, be they new to the market or new to the country, a starting point- a springboard to wherever their working careers take them. They just use these jobs as a way of learning to be on time, how to meet employer expectations, how to learn a work ethic, or even just an opportunity to learn basic English, etc... as well as building a work record that future potential employers can check on before giving them a position. Not too shabby for a "patty flipping" McJob, eh?

[Rex Idiotarum]

You'd think, but I've seen the same people working the same positions for years.

And, you start that off as if you were correcting me, rather than adding to what I was saying. And yeah, I agree with you, don't disrespect someone for their job.

O! Yeah, great news, I finally got a new job. I sort stuff for a Contracting company. They work on big projects all across the nation. I guess, you can have some months that screw you over and others that are awesome. I'm already seeing good stuff going on. I have my own Forum (Still in the works, but it's getting better), a job, what next? Who knows?

[Sisqui]

And, you start that off as if you were correcting me, rather than adding to what I was saying. And yeah, I agree with you, don't disrespect someone for their job.

I was just suggesting that they aren't dead end jobs for people "with nowhere else to turn to". That was the only part I disagreed with.

O! Yeah, great news, I finally got a new job. I sort stuff for a Contracting company. They work on big projects all across the nation. I guess, you can have some months that screw you over and others that are awesome. I'm already seeing good stuff going on. I have my own Forum (Still in the works, but it's getting better), a job, what next? Who knows?

Congrats!

[Volug]

I just need someone to make me happy right now

...I'd never think I would say that.... I'm always happy...

[Rex Idiotarum]

Damn. I'm on duty? Fine.

You're a good kid, not afraid to stick to unpopular convictions, an admiral trait if any. I say, out with it, what makes you feel bad?

[Volug]

To put simply, I hurt someones feelings without intending to do so. I apoligized... more times then I can count. But it just keeps naging at me. Then someone brings up the stupid subject again and I'm starting to feel really horible... For something I didn't intend to do.

I really hate hurting peoples feelings. It just kills me to see someone un-happy. I like to help people find joy in life and that there are things worth living for. I know people have down days... But I don't want this issue to drag me back down to..... then...

No I'm not going to speak another word about "Then". I hate it more then everything I dispise about this world. I'll leave it at that, and say no more about it.

[SurlySeraph]

To put simply, I hurt someones feelings without intending to do so. I apoligized... more times then I can count. But it just keeps naging at me. Then someone brings up the stupid subject again and I'm starting to feel really horible... For something I didn't intend to do.

I've been in that situation many, many times. Basically all you can do is work on something else. Do something that feels like the right thing to do (that is, something that seems like it benefits yourself or others) for a while and just pour your effort into it. Whether it's homework, work work, reading about something that interests you, or whatever, just do it for hours until you aren't thinking about anything else. Then you'll feel fine.

[Rex Idiotarum]

I don't think she's made you into an enemy, and I doubt she's taken complete offense to it, but it's your choice of words that has people offended. I mean, I wouldn't refer to the Venus De Milo as porn due to the fact that she's topless. Even if it's you're convictions, phrasing should be worked upon.

I guess you should live, learn, and forgive. Even if, as in your case, the hardest person to forgive is yourself.

((I'm on your side, the person should not've brought that up, I would've responded, but I wouldn't want anything that seemed even remotely hostile or could seem or lead to flaming to happen, so I just went to another page.))

[Skippy]

I'm kinda depressed right now, for no good reason. I'm just down.

I hate it when it happens...

[Serpentine]

Masato, if you feel like you insulted someone, and apologised, and were told you were forgiven, noone else has the right to get involved. If you feel like you insulted someone but haven't apologised and feel guilty for not doing so, do so. It will make both of you feel better, and again, it won't be anyone's place to have a go at you for it. I admit I was mildly disturbed by that incident, but (I think) it mostly wasn't directed at me, and if I got a bit riled up at the time it was mostly just rather bemusing, and I'm quite over it now.

[Micate]

Masato, take a moment and think about how they feel. Put yourself in their shoes, and think about how silly your concerns are. They don't care, they've moved on (I assume), and so should you. That's easier said than done, but like Rex said, its a simple matter to distract yourself with something amusing. Just start doing something, keep yourself busy and don't dwell on the problem.

And Skippy, I feel your pain. Random depression sucks. If only internet hugs really worked... *goes to his room to sulk*

[Bor the Barbarian Monk]

To put simply, I hurt someones feelings without intending to do so. I apoligized... more times then I can count. But it just keeps naging at me. Then someone brings up the stupid subject again and I'm starting to feel really horible... For something I didn't intend to do.

I have a Bor story that I am ashamed of, but it serves two purposes. One is that it exemplifies the ability to open one's mouth and insert one's foot up to the knee. The other is to show part of the long journey to become who and what I am today.

*When I was fifteen, I met a girl named Tara. She was newly diagnosed as having leukemia. It was also thought that she might be a diabetic on top of it. Well, these were my fields. Conversations with my mother about the combination of both diseases had occurred when I was younger. Having met Tara, this was a time for me to share my mother’s “professional” thoughts on the matter and demonstrate her versions of understanding and love. While talking with Tara, I quite casually told her that anyone with both diseases was doomed. Death was the only thing that awaited the poor soul thus afflicted. Not once did I consider the impact on this girl. I just went on and on, gabbing away as if I was talking about someone who wasn’t even in the room.

I traumatized that poor kid without even realizing it. She required sedation and therapy thanks to me.

What was I thinking when I shared these golden nuggets of information? Nothing. Not a damn thing. She would ask her questions, and I just opened my mouth and did more damage in a few minutes than a lifetime of abuse could…and all through that conversation, not a single brain cell in my head said, “Don’t tell her that, you moron!”

I was restricted to my room after that, and I wasn’t even permitted to talk to my roommate. With few visitors, it became a lonely stay, but a valuable one. It was the first of many lessons that taught me to think before I opened my big mouth. It would take a few more such lessons for me to fine-tune my mouth and brain, getting them to cooperate in a socially acceptable manner.

Tara and I crossed paths many months later. I asked for special permission to see her, to apologize for my previous act of stupidity. After all but dropping to my knees and kissing her feet and begging for forgiveness, she told me that everything was fine between us. She had forgiven me a long time ago. As it turned out, she wasn’t a diabetic.

I was glad. It would have been a terrible loose end to have hanging in my life. Knowing she’d forgiven me became the most important event of my life when she died. Yes, after the hope that remission brings, the leukemia came back and took her brilliantly lighted soul from our mortal realm. I shed many tears over her passing...

The story includes the lesson. Learn it, Masato, and you can start saving yourself some grief.

*This tale is quoted because it's take from a book in progress called The Suicide Note: Memoirs of an Insulin Dependent Diabetic.