Shrink Item, LETS GET CHEESY!

[Guinea Anubis]

As we all know Shrink Item can be one of the most cheesy spells, lets see just how cheesy we can get with it.

So here is my cheese I posted some time ago, a mental exercise on how to more or less make a tactical nuke with the spell Shrink Item.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/shrinkItem.htm

Shrink Item

Transmutation

Level: Sor/Wiz 3Components:V, S Casting Time:1 standard action Range:TouchTarget ne touched object of up to 2 cu. ft./levelDuration ne day/level; see textSaving Throw:Will negates (object) Spell Resistance:Yes (object)
You are able to shrink one nonmagical item (if it is within the size limit) to 1/16 of its normal size in each dimension (to about 1/4,000 the original volume and mass). This change effectively reduces the object's size by four categories. Optionally, you can also change its now shrunken composition to a clothlike one. Objects changed by a shrink item spell can be returned to normal composition and size merely by tossing them onto any solid surface or by a word of command from the original caster. Even a burning fire and its fuel can be shrunk by this spell. Restoring the shrunken object to its normal size and composition ends the spell.
Shrink item can be made permanent with a permanency spell, in which case the affected object can be shrunk and expanded an indefinite number of times, but only by the original caster.

Now the key part to this work is this line "You are able to shrink one nonmagical item (if it is within the size limit) to 1/16 of its normal size in each dimension "

Now take the normal Item Alchemists Fire
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/...alchemistsFire

Alchemist's Fire

You can throw a flask of alchemist's fire as a splash weapon. Treat this attack as a ranged touch attack with a range increment of 10 feet.
A direct hit deals 1d6 points of fire damage. Every creature within 5 feet of the point where the flask hits takes 1 point of fire damage from the splash. On the round following a direct hit, the target takes an additional 1d6 points of damage. If desired, the target can use a full-round action to attempt to extinguish the flames before taking this additional damage. Extinguishing the flames requires a DC 15 Reflex save. Rolling on the ground provides the target a +2 bonus on the save. Leaping into a lake or magically extinguishing the flames automatically smothers the fire.

Now since Alc Fire comes in a Flask that has a weight of 1lbs we can safely say this it is a 1 pint flask, thanks to Oil coming in a 1 pint flask and having the same wieght. Even if it does not it really does not matter.

Now for the math, let's say for the sake of easy numbers that one flask of alchemist's fire is a 16 in. cube.

Reducing it to 1/16 size in all dimensions makes it a 1 in. cube, letting you stack 163, or 4096, in the space you could normally fit one. This number (4096) holds true for any object, no matter what its original dimensions.

Now 1 cubic foot = 59.844 155 844 pint [US, liquid]

So at 20 level a wizard can shrink 40 cubic feet = 2393.76623376

So at level 20 you can only fit 2393 alchemist's fire in to a 1 pint.

So you Now have a Flask sized Nuke that can do 2393 d6 fire damge with 2393 splash damge. Since the rules for Shrink Item does not say that it changes the Items damge.

[Fax Celestis]

Arcane channeled shrink item, used during a sunder attempt.

[Quietus]

Arcane channeled shrink item, used during a sunder attempt.

I likes it... turn the object into the "clothlike" option, and win!

[DreadArchon]

Well, it's not at all creative, but since it hasn't been mentioned yet:

If you think it's bad when big rocks fall and everyone dies, try solid lead balls of the maximum size allowed by the spell... brought back up to size right before they hit...

Warhulk/Hulking Hurler as a Centaur: Because it's funny to knock the moon out of orbit at level 15.

[Storm Bringer]

The spell doesn't actually say the object gets any lighter due to the shrinking, just smaller. being pendantic, using the spell in a delayed action format could allow weapons grade uranium to achive critical mass and explode.

boy, now THEIRS a D20 modern plotline....................

edit= dammit, spotted the 'mass' bit. um......it would still work, just needs s few changes. have the spell ware off, expand to bring the mass to citical level, then go form thier.

[Emperor Tippy]

The spell doesn't actually say the object gets any lighter due to the shrinking, just smaller. being pendantic, using the spell in a delayed action format could allow weapons grade uranium to achive critical mass and explode.

boy, now THEIRS a D20 modern plotline....................

edit= dammit, spotted the 'mass' bit. um......it would still work, just needs s few changes. have the spell ware off, expand to bring the mass to citical level, then go form thier.

to about 1/4,000 the original volume and mass

the quantity of matter as determined from its weight or from Newton's second law of motion

the force that gravitation exerts upon a body, equal to the mass of the body times the local acceleration of gravity: commonly taken, in a region of constant gravitational acceleration, as a measure of mass.

Someone needs to read better.

[Aquillion]

Someone needs to read better.

This can only mean one thing. When you cast Shrink Item, the gravitational constant changes to keep the item's weight the same despite its lowered mass!

[Emperor Tippy]

Haha.

Although if you apply real world physics you can make some positively nasty kinetic energy weapons with Shrink Item.

I'm talking gigaton explosions.

[PinkysBrain]

That's assuming speed is preserved rather than momentum.

Alchemist fires are needlessly complex, as was said earlier ... just drop some shrunk rocks (and dispel them while they are dropping).

[Jayabalard]

Since the rules for Shrink Item does not say that it changes the Items damge.

The rules also don't say that you don't take damage every time you cast the Shrink Item spell.

Since there's not a rule one way or another, I tend to think that most DMs would probably base it on common sense: if you have less than a pint of alchemist's fire, it doesn't do as much damage as a pint would.

Although if you apply real world physics you can make some positively nasty kinetic energy weapons with Shrink Item.

If you apply real world physics, then

1. You couldn't change the mass of the object
2. even if you could, the kinetic energy wouldn't change when the mass changed, the velocity would

[Emperor Tippy]

That's assuming speed is preserved rather than momentum.

You can still reach megaton or greater range fairly cheaply.

[Roderick_BR]

If you want to use physics on D&D, just make an enemy grow or shrink. In any case, he'll suffocate because the new size doesn't support his usual breathing system.

But I like the tactical nuke idea. Even if the DM rules that each flask deals only the splash damage, it's still good enogh to obliterate any non-red/gold great wyrm.
The "toss shrunk item then expand it during mid-air" is a old trick.

Another idea I read once is turn a log into a stick, make an arrow with it, hit the enemy, and once the arrow is deeply into his wound, revert it.

[Wooter]

I'm sure I'd use Shrink Item for purely petty reasons.

Is the Paladin getting on your nerves? Give him a nice pat on the back and shrink his armor. While he's in it.

[Roderick_BR]

Sorry for the double posting, but I just remembered a nasty one. Turn a rock into a tiny peeble, and put it in someone's food. After he eats, and complain about bitting into something hard, revert it again. Maybe add a handfull of them small enough to be mistaken with some sort of salt, and watch the "rock explosion".
Who needs poisons?

[DreadArchon]

Sorry for the double posting...

You didn't, though. Impressive luck.

I'd like to point out that conservation of momentum isn't important if you're dropping an item (rather than throwing it) because the Shrink was only necessary to carry it up high. You can enlarge it again when you're up there, so that it falls the whole way at full size (and momentum).

[Guinea Anubis]

I did not come up with this one but its to good not to post

Behold the 'Boom Bubble':

1) shrink a **** ton of water and put it in a vial.

2) summon a celstial badger. tie the vial to the badger.

3) Otilukes Resiliant Sphere the badger.

4)Dismiss the badger, leaving the vial inside an indestructable sphere of force.

5) Unshrink the water. An insulting amount of water is now in a vessel far too small for it that is indestructable. Water doesn't normally compress. WElcome to the world of magic.

6) Have the barbarian push the sphere to the desired location.

7) Dismiss the sphere and behold the awesome power of potential energy.

[the_tick_rules]

shrink spheres of annihilation. Instant death in grain-of-sand sized packages.

[SpiderBrigade]

8) Catgirls die.

[Guinea Anubis]

shrink spheres of annihilation. Instant death in grain-of-sand sized packages.

Sorry but you can not do that the spell says

You are able to shrink one nonmagical item

[Renx]

Ohh! The poor catgirls!

[bdh5533]

If you want to use physics on D&D, just make an enemy grow or shrink. In any case, he'll suffocate because the new size doesn't support his usual breathing system.

But I like the tactical nuke idea. Even if the DM rules that each flask deals only the splash damage, it's still good enogh to obliterate any non-red/gold great wyrm.
The "toss shrunk item then expand it during mid-air" is a old trick.

Another idea I read once is turn a log into a stick, make an arrow with it, hit the enemy, and once the arrow is deeply into his wound, revert it.

Doing this causes a log to come back wherever the arrow is not in the person. still nasty, just not as nasty as most people think. (a shrunk item cannot be used to break things open) if your dm for some reason allows this, get a hung chunk of iron and shrink it and use your iron pebble in every lock you find. insert pebble, bam door and lock explode open :D


now firing arrows and using warp wood to twist and bend them inside a creature does work.

[Citizen Joe]

The shrunken alchemical fire doesn't really work because the oils don't do the damage directly. The Alchemical fire sets you on fire which in turn causes damage. If you're on fire, more fire isn't going to have any further effect. Its more likely that it will simply burn longer as there is more fuel. But it won't burn more intensely (and thus more damage) unless there is some other environmental effect happening... more likely, that small splash item would simply become a larger area effect splash item, but same damage regardless.

[bdh5533]

Arcane channeled shrink item, used during a sunder attempt.

doesn't work on any magic weapon :D

[Guinea Anubis]

The shrunken alchemical fire doesn't really work because the oils don't do the damage directly. The Alchemical fire sets you on fire which in turn causes damage. If you're on fire, more fire isn't going to have any further effect. Its more likely that it will simply burn longer as there is more fuel. But it won't burn more intensely (and thus more damage) unless there is some other environmental effect happening... more likely, that small splash item would simply become a larger area effect splash item, but same damage regardless.

I would have to say the RAW says it does since they say "A direct hit deals 1d6 points of fire damage" not sets target on fire for 1d6 damage.

If PC #1 throws an Alk Fire at an Orc and does lets say 3 damage and sets the orc on fire. Now if PC #2 also throws an Alk Fire at the same orc who is on fire the RAW say that PC #2's Alk Fire also does 1D6 of damage, Not just add more fule.


Is it stupid, YES. Is it Cheey, YES. Would any DM in his right mind let something like this work, NO.

[Indon]

Hey, what happens if you shrink something, and then let it expand in something that is smaller than its' original size? Does it break/take damage, or can the expansion fail? What are the rules behind that?

Also, every time I see this thread, I think of Darkwing Duck. >.>

[Guinea Anubis]

Also, every time I see this thread, I think of Darkwing Duck. >.>

Congrats on getting the joke.

[Caduceus]

Baker who is secretly a sorcerer or wizard bakes a dagger affected by shrink item into a cake. Someone eats the cake. The spell wears off. The individual who consumed the cake is now face down in the street with a dagger protruding from his back with no entry wound and no one who could have stabbed him.

Perfect for a mystery intro.

[Fax Celestis]

Baker who is secretly a sorcerer or wizard bakes a dagger affected by shrink item into a cake. Someone eats the cake. The spell wears off. The individual who consumed the cake is now face down in the street with a dagger protruding from his back with no entry wound and no one who could have stabbed him.

Perfect for a mystery intro.

OHDAMN neat.

[Emperor Tippy]

I prefer a spiked iron sphere for my assassination needs.

Get a 1 foot diameter iron sphere that is covered in spikes. Now use shrink item to shrink the sphere down to about .00025 inches in diameter. Even if the DM goes with the "It can't expand to a size larger than its container" ruling the sphere will expand to exactly the size of the creatures stomach.

How would you like a sphere covered in razor sharp spikes in your stomach, and one that you can't get out (trying just makes it more stuck.).

What is also fun is using the cloth like option to turn water into cloth and then making clothes out of it.

Iron is good for this as well. Shrink a foot thick sheet of iron down and turn it cloth like. Now whenever you need a tent or to block a path you just throw it out in front of you and your protected.

Or how about rope that turns to iron? I wonder what the escape DC of that is.

It's also great for prison cells.

And if you wrap yourself in a cloak of it and then turn it back you have a nigh impenetrable sphere of iron to hang out in for a bit.