run-fall

[2old]

A halfling with a 30' move rate wants to run back down a corridor as fast as he can. The corridor has a 5' drop part way along (that he would reach in his first move action). He can tumble to avoid any falling damage but this would leave him prone so his second action would be to stand up. He has ample tumble skill but no relevant feats.
Is the above correct, or should he be able to tumble the fall as part of his move and keep going ?

[Fronko]

I´d say, with a proper jump skill check he could avoid the obstacle entirely without losing any momentum. After all, it´s just five feet down and even a halfling should be able to jump down that drop.

That's how I´d rule it.

[2old]

What about if you leave options for jump or climb out of the equation ?

[Demented]

Would you even take falling damage from a 5' drop?

[2old]

Not really concerned about any damage from the fall, more the certain death from what was following !
Does tumbling leave you prone ?

[Inyssius Tor]

I don't think it would, in this case. It's a pretty minor drop.

[Closet_Skeleton]

In real life you can break a leg on a 5 ft. drop.

[Fireball.Man.Guy.]

Only if you don't roll with/ brace for landing.

[Diggorian]

I, and other DMs I know, usually rule that successful Tumbling leaves a character on their feet, but still takes up some of their total movement.

Even if the 5ft drop is a surprise, the skill says you can do it as an instant reaction under the Try Again part of the description.

[Yuki Akuma]

Anyone with good reactions and a even a medocre Tumbling skill can take a five foot drop and land on their feet. Or get back on their feet in less than a second, at least.

[2old]

Certainly agree that in reality a 5' drop (or much less) could cause a broken leg, but character was well aware of it (travelling back).

[Charity]

What about if you leave options for jump or climb out of the equation ?

Why are we leaving jump or climb out of the equation?

I would say (as I did) that it would require a jump check for a small character to drop 5' and land on his feet so he might continue his movement (he also could have climbed down and then continued moving).
Have I been unduely harsh to require a jump roll from a distance almost twice the halflings height?

As far as I see tumble only mitigates the damage of a fall (in this case nothing) it doesn't suggest you land on your feet.

Anyone with good reactions and a even a medocre Tumbling skill can take a five foot drop and land on their feet. Or get back on their feet in less than a second, at least.

Thing is Yuki there are feats and class skills that allow you to stand as a free action, does this not esentially suggest you don't need these feats, or indeed a jump skill as you can use tumble (a skill that lets face it gets plenty of skill point love) to circumvent the need for any of these?

[Diggorian]

Have I been unduely harsh to require a jump roll from a distance almost twice the halflings height?

Not so much harsh but unfair. Small characters already get a Jump penalty from their 20ft speed (-6). Size is accounted for in RAW.

As far as I see tumble only mitigates the damage of a fall (in this case nothing) it doesn't suggest you land on your feet.

Changing part of the falling damage to nonlethal, kinda suggests it does to me. Successful Tumbling is about moving how you want despite obstables. Landing prone would ignore this, you get penalized despite meeting a DC.

Thing is Yuki there are feats and class skills that allow you to stand as a free action, does this not esentially suggest you don't need these feats, or indeed a jump skill as you can use tumble (a skill that lets face it gets plenty of skill point love) to circumvent the need for any of these?

Quick stand feats and abilities let you better deal with being prone, which can result from many actions. Tumbling doesnt replace these and these dont replace Tumbling, they do work together often though.

[Quietus]

Since there's no damage for falling, I'd just ask for a Jump check to see if you could land on your feet - DC would be all of 10 or 15.

[Kioran]

Fluff-wise this would just mean that the halfling could jump forward a bit, land and roll with the momentum back to his feet without losing speed. It is entirely possible - people doing parkour show this is true and a pretty stanard maneuver(for reference: http://www.2xfun.de/view.php?file=4705#item )

I´d say it´s covered by tumble, maybe a DC 20 check, but entirely possible.

[Charity]

Since there's no damage for falling, I'd just ask for a Jump check to see if you could land on your feet - DC would be all of 10 or 15.

which is what happened, he failed his roll and landed prone, it seemed reasonable to me.
Jumping off a ledge seems to use the jump skill to me, otherwise what is it for. 2old wanted to replace the jump roll with a tumble, as he had lots of ranks in tumble. I figured a jump was required as its the equivilant of you falling of a 10 foot high wall (over a story in height) and rolling with it instead of jumping down and maintaining your feet.
As far as I see it jump was the relivant skill.

[2old]

As a lowish level character and a climb DC20 or Jump DC15 the character was not likely to succeed in either.
Character wanted to roll as he hit the ground and carry on moving hence suggestion applying tumble.
It's kind of difficult not to succeed at doing a 5' drop once you've gone over the edge.
(To be fair DM did suggest Jump DC would be lower for a normal sized character).

[Charity]

As a lowish level character and a climb DC20 or Jump DC15 the character was not likely to succeed in either.

climb for a rogue lvl4 - 7 ranks + 2 halfling bonus = roll of 11
Jump for a rogue lvl4 - 5 ranks for the tumble synergy) + 2 halfling bonus = roll of 8
Not really that tricky.

Character wanted to roll as he hit the ground and carry on moving hence suggestion applying tumble.

The whole point of the jump roll (as no damage was involved) was so you could keep moving, if the tumble roll can be substituted then why make the jump roll in the first place?

It's kind of difficult not to succeed at doing a 5' drop once you've gone over the edge.

Jump roll was to enable you to keep your feet as you, run - jump - run.

Imagine running along the top of a garage, as you get to the edge do you
A - jump off and continue running
B - climb/drop down, reducing your movement
or as you would wish it
C - deliberately fall off the edge landing prone and roll back onto your feet miraculously losing no momentum, even though the only stated application of tumble with regard to falling is to avoid damage.
If you fall 30 feet and sucessfully avoid 10' of falling damage can you then assume you have landed on your feet? tumble doesn't do that, sorry.

[2old]

climb for a rogue lvl4 - 7 ranks + 2 halfling bonus = roll of 11
Jump for a rogue lvl4 - 5 ranks for the tumble synergy) + 2 halfling bonus = roll of 8
Not really that tricky.

Oh well, if only I had max'd every skill that I wanted too.
{Actually a 3rd rogue /1st barbarian}

Imagine running along the top of a garage, as you get to the edge do you
A - jump off and continue running
B - climb/drop down, reducing your movement
or as you would wish it
C - deliberately fall off the edge landing prone and roll back onto your feet miraculously losing no momentum, even though the only stated application of tumble with regard to falling is to avoid damage.

D'oh. When running (or in this case normal moving), you move to the edge, bend knees + stride (yes jump) then hit the ground and either stagger/roll forwards or stand with knees together, arms raised in a nice line waiting for points for style. In this case a perfect jump wasn't required for the full 5' drop merely sufficient control to execute a tumble - a fairly normal effect from the cause of forward momentum.
Option A ends in one or two broken ankles.
Or as you have it missing the DC by a couple and spending the rest of the round standing up. What happens if a gymnast fails their ideal landing off a bar- oops they take a step forwards and come last.

Chastity - we can debate in our own time, I raised this to hear the view points of others.

[Diggorian]

From the SRD:

If a character deliberately jumps instead of merely slipping or falling, the damage is the same but the first 1d6 is nonlethal damage. A DC 15 Jump check or DC 15 Tumble check allows the character to avoid any damage from the first 10 feet fallen and converts any damage from the second 10 feet to nonlethal damage.

So either one will do. I'd call for Jump if the drop is known, Tumble if it was stumbled across. Only being 5ft, no falling damage, it may not even require a check. The check is mainly to determine prone or not. DC for such a check is DM discretion, not in RAW.

I might use DC 7 (half of DC 15 for a 10ft drop). Most folks can just take 10 and get it. Untrained Jumpers have to beat the DC by 5 to not land prone per rules. Jumps are penalized by slow speed, Tumbles is trained only & take twice as much movement, both must deal with Armor Check Penalty.

[Matthew]

Chastity - we can debate in our own time, I raised this to hear the view points of others.

Heh, heh. A positive sentiment, but with an amusing error of nomenclature.

[Charity]

He just knows how long I've been married...

[2old]

Or the fact you've got kids.
One misnomer's as good as another.