NEW World of Darkness

[Yuki Akuma]

So... does anyone here actually play this? I got the books about a month ago, and only just started reading Mage. And, uh, I love it, heh.

But looking around all the sites I generally visit, no one really seems that into the new World of Darkness, and certainly not Mage. I've found one thread, ever, entirely based on the newer World of Darkness, and that was completely about Vampire: the Requiem.



So... what about that new WoD, then? Anyone play?

[Closet_Skeleton]

No, sorry.

I'm firmly in the 'put off by the pretentious stereotypes' group that stays away from all things White Wolf. I dislike that company's focus on concept based design.

The White Wolf official forums has threads for New WoD, I'm sure.

[Krrth]

I'm not sure about anyone else, but yes I play WoD.

[Renx]

I haven't even bothered reading the new WoD. Will probably read Changeling: the Lost, though.

//Edit1: Make that 'won't even read that'. From the previews it sounds like it focuses on humans made slaves by the Kithain. Uninteresting.

[Krrth]

I'm looking forward to it as well. Just make sure you at least take a look at the core book first, or it might not make much sense (or as much as Changling ever does...)

[Yuki Akuma]

I'm looking forward to Changeling, too, mainly because I want to know how the heck they're supposed to get across the Abyss from Arcadia back to the Fallen World...

[Renx]

I'm looking forward to it as well.

I'm not, not anymore :P

Just make sure you at least take a look at the core book first, or it might not make much sense (or as much as Changling ever does...)

Well, IMO it always made sense, and I liked the premises :P So I'm not very interested in the totally-revamped version of them.

[Renx]

...mainly because I want to know how the heck they're supposed to get across the Abyss from Arcadia back to the Fallen World...

From the previews it sounds like they invented 'the thorns', which separate Arcadia from 'the real world'. I wonder where the Dreaming stands in all that...

And the game sounds like it's not about the Kithain anymore... or at least not about trolls, satyrs, boggans and the such.

[Yuki Akuma]

Arcadia is part of the Supernal Realm, which is seperated from the Fallen ('real') World by the Abyss, which is basically a big load o' nothing.

I suppose the Thorns could be a sort of gateway that bypasses the Abyss totally, or is just another name for it. Either way, I want to read the explanation.

The new World of Darkness has done away with the whole "belief is reality" idea, and is now focusing on "reality is a Lie" (as well as "The Universe Hates Us"). The Supernal Realm is the truth, and fae come from there now.

[Indon]

I hear they got rid of the technocrats, which means there's little in the system to interest me so long as I could theoretically access old WoD books.

[Dant]

There are parts of the new WoD I like, parts I don't. Actually, one of the main things I disliked was the new Vampire. Who thought it was a good mechanic for more powerful vampires to become constantly weaker due to their inability to properly gather blood. Then they go into a coma and lose most of their power. Joy. Unless you take the Coils of the Dragon or whatever.

[ravenkith]

I actually own the WOD and VTR books...but I just can't get into them.

They completely changed a lot of things about the way the game works, and, as far as I'm concerned, threw out the baby with the bathwater.

One of the best things about the old character generation system was that it was simple, they had cheat sheets, and everything was self contained.

If you had extra content, great, but you didn't need it to play.

Now, at least with VTR, you've gotta get the basic WOD book too.

They've gone the D&D route, making everything tie into everything else, but frankly, I don't have enough cash to support two games like that, and I'm already heavily invested in D&D.

That, and WOD seems to attract a lot of poseurs and emo angsty types, when all I really want to do is sit down and get my fang on...be a bloodsucking, backstabbing, centuries old vamp who screws with people because it's funny.

I'll say this: I'd play the game, but I have zero interest in trying to run it.

[Counterspin]

I've enjoyed all of the new WOD that I've seen. Though I think that some of them are a bit silly(Promethean) the system is stronger and I enjoy the new takes very much. I definitely think that it's progress. And WOD movement away from the uncapped splat format with the smaller run books means you can get all the material for one game for a comparatively low price(Changeling will only ever be five books, Promethean was five, etc.)

[Closet_Skeleton]

Though I think that some of them are a bit silly(Promethean)

What, you mean the "let's take a cool idea for a player race and then turn them into a boring clone of what we've done already" game.

[LongVin]

New World of Darkness is too tablelized and based on rules written down to the point of insanity. You have to add extra dice depending on what weapons you use. I found the new mage system just confusing and unwieldly.

The nWOD requires you to have the book present when you are playing and requires you to check back and forth if something new arises.


I was also very disappointed with the new backstories for Mage and Vampire. The centurion Longinus creation story was just weak and didn't make a whole lot of sense. And all the Mages being part of the Atlanteans and all technically part of one group seemed to make them all too interconnected.


I also hate the fact they got rid of House and Clan Tremere as Vampires. They were my favorite group.

[Driderman]

I've said it before: New WoD seems like a dumbed-down version of old WoD, with stupider (is that a word?) background.
And don't even get me started on the technical aspects... Even though old WoD was dice heavy and sometimes very strange situations happened ( Yes, you shoot him in the face point blank with your Desert Eagle and he takes 0 damage. No, he doesn't have fortitude), it was bliss compared to the poorly implemented D&D ripoff in new WoD.

[....]

I also hate the fact they got rid of House and Clan Tremere as Vampires. They were my favorite group.

I'm pretty sure Tremere are a Bloodline of the Ventrue now.

And I like the new WoD. I think they've streamlined the system and made it much easier for the different types of monsters to interact with each other (since now all of them have a 'power' rating and a 'fuel' rating), and the fact that now the various groups don't seem quite so antagonistic towards one another (i.e.: Werewolves don't really care about Vampires, as long as they don't let spirits through the Gauntlet).

The whole system seems a lot more 'together' to me. I even like the idea of character creation being a normal person with a template added. (Although I do think forcing you to buy at least two books unless you want to play a plain old human stupid)

All in all, I like it. I've always liked the Storytelling system. Its nice to play a game of Monster: The Angst and do some roleplaying-heavy stuff in a realistic (kinda) world when the more hack-and-slash stuff of D&D gets old.

[Driderman]

D&D can be just as roleplay heavy, thats just a matter of playing style. Although I will say the old WoD was what really got me roleplaying as opposed to roll-playing

[....]

D&D can be just as roleplay heavy, thats just a matter of playing style. Although I will say the old WoD was what really got me roleplaying as opposed to roll-playing

I know, but people tend to have a more RP mind-set when playing WW games.

Not to mention I've always prefered RP in 'real-world' settings because its easier to imagine how people would react, and things can get much more interesting. In most D&D games, no one bats an eye if you shoot magic bolts of power from your hands or kill some bad guys in a tavern fight.

Whereas in WoD if you shoot someone you usually have the whole next session about running from the cops. (at least in the ones I've played.)

I actually seem to RP more in CofC too, now that I think of it. /shrug

[Jerthanis]

I like simplified, single roll combat. It makes it faster and more exciting than the 2 rolls per side (roll hit vs dodge, then roll dmg vs soak, repeat for multiple attacks/dodges and so forth) I like how the system is fast and easy and intuitive (to me at least). I don't like the extent to which conflict was thrown out of the Vampire and Mage games, and I don't think the new versions present as interesting worlds or philosophies.

The problem I ran into running Mage was that the book didn't come with a variety of malefactors ready to go, and I had to make up most of the customs and ideals of the players' opponents. I also had to try and figure out what the overall goal of the mage community should be, since, in Old Mage, each sect was trying to assert their paradigm as the consensual reality of the setting, and basically define the world as they wanted/believed it to be... but in New Mage, where they can't really spread knowledge about the Supernal world at risk of separating the fallen world even further from it, and since mastery of the arcane is only really useful for establishing domination over other mages and prestige in the mage community, it's not like that's a rewarding end in itself. I had a lot of trouble coming up with direction to take the players in, and the only things I could really think of which were at all interesting were 1.) Discover the reason for the Abyss, and stop the Exarchs from maintaining the staus quo, and I guess re-merge the supernal with the fallen, and 2.) Police the Mage community, dealing with those who go maverick and try to summon demons and so on. (which I would also have to figure out what end the mavericks were after as well, a chore in itself as well)

I suppose I just found it difficult to find conflict in the game.

I think running standard nWoD as a horror Cthulu styled fight against madness and terror, running from monsters beyond your character's ken and achieving victory through cleverness or simply survival would make a much better game than the proposed splat books about the actual supernatural creatures.

[Yuki Akuma]

I'm pretty sure Tremere are a Bloodline of the Ventrue now.

No, Tremere is a type of soul-eating Mage now. Backstory about how the original Tremere made a pact with a vampire clan in a bid to achieve immortality but still retain Supernal power...

It worked, of course, but they don't have souls now.

[Laurellien]

I've looked at it, but I don't really like the combat system in there.

[ChildOfLuna]

rpg.net has a good sized portion of nWoD players. Though, most of the White Wolf love is directed towards Scion and Exalted.
The Official Forums also have a good bit of chat, but again Exalted and Scion are the most active partitions of the community.

What I don't get is the hate that seems to put gamers in two camps. WoD "angst-emo" and D&D "roll-players". While I am quite biased towards the White Wolf camp (<3 for Exalted), I have played d20 and had a blast. While Exalted has a lot more supporting the rubric for roleplaying, and seems to wedge such reactions out of players because the system supports it; I don't think it's impossible in say D&D. It's just in one your reactions curve with the system, and in the other your reactions curve against the system.
Example: Exalted has Social Combat, which gives you bonuses for real rebuttals and performances, which helps spark some that might lie dormant to wing it for the bonus. Also, it rewards pitches to enemies emotions in your speech, their goals, and dynamic reactions that can be just as vivid as the combat.
In D&D, your Half-Elf Bard rolls diplomacy. It's really regardless what you say, you could say "I hate you and despise your kind. BE MY BESTEST FWEND!" and you won't incur any penalties. You could still give a dynamic speech and woo the hearts of the people, but that's going against the Rules as Written.

[The Gilded Duke]

Suprised at all the negative responces in this thread, although it took alot of getting used to I much prefer the new World of Darkness over the Old World of Darkness. Most of my experience so far is with Vampire the Requiem incorporating many werewolf elements.

In the Old World of Darkness that was a bad idea. The cosmologies didn't match up, the themes didn't match up, and the power levels didn't match up. While they still have very different views of the way things work the games still mesh together well and villians from one game can be used well in another game.

Definatly have to recommend the Predators book no matter what type of game your running in the nWod. Fear the Azlu.

Requiem

At first I didn't like the requiem and didn't like alot of the changes. I then realized I was comparing the new requiem to my own selective use of Masquerade. Just as before there are some good parts and some bad parts.

Overall there are far less bad parts. In running larps the clans actually caused major problems, there were too many of them, and in some cases the differences between two clans could be minor, such as the toreador and the brujah.

They fixed that, they reduced the clans down to just the following:
Ventrue (Ventrue/Malkavian/Tsimizce mix)
Nosferatu
Gangrel
Mekhet (Malkavian/Setite mix)
Daeva (Toreador/Brujah mix)

Each clan has a unique discipline.

If people want to be more specific they can also play a bloodline, a subset of one of the major clans. Many of the oWOD clans continue as bloodlines in the new game, including the Toreador, Brujah, and Malkovians.

Covenants

At first I didn't like the covenants. The Invictus seemed too much like the camarilla, the Ordo Dracul too draculaey. But really, they are better then the sabbat and camarilla. They don't always fight each other, they sometimes get along, and they often ally with each other against different covenants.

Also, all the covenants are better concepts then the Camarilla and the Sabbat ever were.

Carthians- There has been over 2,000 years of development in political and social thought since the creation of vampires, lets try some of it.

Invictus- Tradition and Institution insure that the greatest rewards go to those who most contribute to the system. (Kinda..)

Lancea Sanctum- We are God's monsters here to instill fear to make men good.

Circle of the Crone- What you actually believe that Longinus crap? Search harder to find the real truths.

Ordo Dracul- Vampires are better then humans. Vampires are unfinished. Through overcomming our weaknesses we can progress to become even greater beings.

The Carthian book has to be one of the best done roleplaying game books I have ever read. I even read the history of the covenant. Usually White Wolf has horrible history sections in it's books, even in changeling. That book though... its all good.

Once you stop caring that it's not Masquerade you start liking it better.

Also larp system, so much better then the old one.

[Renx]

Personally, I'm really 'meh' about nWoD. I don't have a group that has any interest in playing it, and as I've skimmed through most of the old WoD I have very little motivation in picking up any of the new books.

Of course, the fact that they completely screwed up Exalted 2nd edition doesn't really raise hopes that nWoD is anything but crap. :P

[High-Chancellor]

I like the flavour of the old Mage better than New Mage, also I think the mechanics... but that might take time to see.

Not that New Mage is bad, it would be hard for Mage not to be the most awesome of all WoD things in my opinion, but for now I prefer old mage.

[Krrth]

Well, to be honest, the whole "Atlantean" bit put me off a little, but when I actually started playing it, it was pretty fun. My Free Council Moros is fun to play. The rules are streamlined down A LOT. Also, since many people play crossover games, everything runs off of the same base now.

[Indon]

Of course, the fact that they completely screwed up Exalted 2nd edition doesn't really raise hopes that nWoD is anything but crap. :P

Hmm? I've never played Exalted 2'nd ed, but I didn't have the impression they changed very much. What kinds of things did they do?

[TomTheRat]

A fundamental flaw to nWoD is that there is an oWoD to compare it against. I think if every gamer in the world wiped oWoD from their brains and then took a look at the books they'd freak out at how awesome the setting is, how much fun it'll be etc, but we can't, and we have to relearn half of a setting.

Half of a setting is far, far more difficult to learn than a whole new one, because you remember everything in a "this has changed but this hasn't" light.

vamp stuff

I couldn't agree with you more.

Which really sucks. I've started up a new larp in the past month, and I'm using oWoD for it, just because I don't want to alienate the 3/4 of my potential playerbase who'll -never- take the time to really read the new books.


Oh, and for those of you saying 2 books is a bad idea simmer the heck down. A bad idea is reprinting 75 pages of base character creation in every damned book you print, rather than collecting all the same info in the same place, giving it the thorough attention it deserves, and then never re-printing it. How many of your oWoD books have the "What does an attribute mean?" section? mmm?

[Krrth]

This is true. Although, to be fair, the oWod was kinda getting crushed under its own weight. IMO, the reset button was desperatly needed.