Issues with Player: Do Your Homework Edition

[Ninjaxenomorph]

So I'm running a Pathfinder game, and I'm having trouble with a few players, some more than other. It's an urban campaign set in a world we (me and two of the players) are testing, and while intrigue is sorta low on the totem pole for now since the party is still relatively unknown. I have five players, whom I will address by their classes:

Medium- The one who initially came up with the setting. Originally he GMed the group, until it bloated and I suggested we split into two groups. We hemorrhaged players, and now I'm the only GM. He had to switch out characters after the first session, since I deemed his first character irredeemably evil. I decided to make him change characters to nip the problem in the bud before alignment issues came up. His current character is a bit ambitious in concept, but the only problem we seem to have is that he says "My character wouldn't do that" when the activity in question is to actually go adventuring and do stuff in general. Medium has gotten me a backstory.

Wizard- The other co-developer of the setting. Playing a full arcane caster for the first time, and is slowly getting the hang of it. Is a much better face-man than the Medium, despite a 8 charisma difference. No backstory, but I've been verbally told a rough outline.

Barbarian- New to the system, but one of the oldest players. Has trouble with the fiddly mechanics, but overall solid. Very good at guiding the team, and giving me advice when I need it. Has gotten me a backstory. It's simple, but it's all I asked for.

Slayer- A new player. Forgets to use abilities, but picking up the pace. Is a couple with the Paladin's player. She has a backstory, but its scribbled on the back of a notecard. Which I have only seen a few times.

Paladin- The other newest player, a bit faster on the uptake than his girlfriend, but isn't taking the game seriously enough for my tastes. Rolled up a dwarf paladin despite all of my advice not to, and followed that by assigning his stats in a very sub-par manner. Started by having a joke name, followed by a joke religion, and hasn't gotten me a backstory.

Now, it might just be me, but the first thing I ask players for after character creation is to give me their character's backstory. I prefer something involved, that I can bring up. Three of my players have not gotten me a backstory. For two its just a matter of typing up and sending me what they have, but for the Paladin's player is starting to get on my nerves in this respect; I've told him to get me a backstory, and he's blown me off.

So, two questions: How to make my players buckle up and give me a backstory, and how to deal with this player. For the former I am thinking about imposing an XP penalty per session until they get me a backstory, but I don't really have a solution for the latter.

[cobaltstarfire]

Is there any particular reason why the players absolutely must give you a backstory?

[Ninjaxenomorph]

I'm a story-driven GM. If I don't know where these characters came from, I can't tailor my plans for them. What would Star Wars have been if Han wasn't fleeing Jabba?

[JoeJ]

If a backstory is that important, then create one yourself. A player who is not interested in creating a backstory for their character is most likely also not going to object to anything reasonable you come up with.

[Ninjaxenomorph]

I have threatened that, yest. I've also informed them that the backstories I create aren't the... most flattering. A pair of bounty hunters from a Star Wars game were pretty much indentured to a guild because they never gave me a backstory.

[StealthyRobot]

If you make him a backstory, try to make it cool. That way he sees it and is like, "woah, thats pretty neat."

I have also had a player who refused to make a backstory. He didn't come to the first session because of it.

[cobaltstarfire]

If they don't give you a backstory just don't tailor the game for them beyond mechanics. Some people like to come along for the ride, or prefer to have the game be the characters story.

You don't need characters to start out with a backstory in order to build a story with them.

[Ninjaxenomorph]

If they don't give you a backstory just don't tailor the game for them beyond mechanics. Some people like to come along for the ride, or prefer to have the game be the characters story.

You don't need characters to start out with a backstory in order to build a story with them.

... Except they do. In my game at least; I recognize there are other ways to address a character, and I recognize there are other ways to run a campaign. Compositing the player's backstories, the setting, and the campaign direction I have in mind together is my way.

[JoeJ]

I have threatened that, yest. I've also informed them that the backstories I create aren't the... most flattering. A pair of bounty hunters from a Star Wars game were pretty much indentured to a guild because they never gave me a backstory.

I didn't mean as a threat. Just create a backstory that you can work with, and that the player will think is cool.

[Flickerdart]

What would Star Wars have been if Han wasn't fleeing Jabba?

Pretty much the same - Han would have taken Obi-wan to Alderaan anyway because it's easy money, and the only other time Jabba becomes involved at all is a few encounters at the start of Return of the Jedi that could have been cut without anything important being lost.

[Ninjaxenomorph]

Pretty much the same - Han would have taken Obi-wan to Alderaan anyway because it's easy money, and the only other time Jabba becomes involved at all is a few encounters at the start of Return of the Jedi that could have been cut without anything important being lost.

The implied answer to my rhetorical question was that Han's character would have been cheapened.

Basically, this boils down to I'm running a serious game and some players aren't taking it seriously.

[Comet]

Backstory is not homework. You don't issue penalties for players who are doing it wrong. You are not a teacher and your players are not ten years old.

Just tell your players that you would all have a more interesting story if they gave you some background information about their characters to work with. If they don't want to, tell them you're just going to make stuff up. That can be fun for the players to discover, too. Getting the players interested in contributing to your story is all about getting them excited about that story and that's not going to happen if they're just getting ridiculed and penalised because they're not satisfying your inner George Lucas.

Or you could just get new players if these ones are so bad at serious gaming.

[tgva8889]

From my reading, it sounds like what you want from your players and what your players want from the game don't align. In such cases, the best policy is always to have a conversation where you explain what you want and why you want it, and you give the players the chance to explain what they want. Perhaps it is as simple as discussing a reasonable compromise; there are many short backstory tools that exist. Perhaps it is simply that what the two of you want out of this game does not align, and you might have to change your expectations, play a different game, or play with a different group of people. Making sure everyone is on the same page is helpful to making sure everyone has a good time, which you should really want more than anything else. (Unless you don't like these people, in which case why are you gaming with them?)

As someone who likes to do what you do and has had a wide variety of backstories to deal with in a campaign (from someone who wrote a small essay to someone who gave extremely short bullet-point answers to someone who just stream-of-consciousnessed for a few minutes) I can certainly understand your frustration. However, these are always things you can bring up with your players and ask them about. I would certainly say "I can't use a backstory I don't have" is a reasonable thing to say to your players; if someone has a backstory that they want to be incorporated, they need to give you some words you can use. Perhaps focusing the initial story on background elements from the players who have actually given you those elements might inspire the players to say "oh, that's cool" and write some background (or at least develop a background of some sort) so they can get included in a similar way. I'd avoid negative punishment, as such actions would more likely inspire me to leave a game rather than actually submit a backstory with effort applied.

It's possible the player is just a flake; I've played with someone like this. If the person says things like "Yeah I'll get to it" and then never does, then perhaps it's time to move on without them. Sometimes you can't change people, and in that case perhaps that person is just not a person you should be playing this RPG with. I've certainly done this with a friend before, and I think me and my players have been happy with the results despite us liking this friend otherwise.

[DiscipleofBob]

Maybe they don't know what their character's backstory is yet. Sometimes all the player has is their stats on paper and hasn't figured out every minute detail of their childhood yet.

I'd say just make sure everyone's on the same page in terms of the party working together towards whatever the plot is, and let things be figured out over time. To some players, backstory isn't important, but maybe after a few sessions and they see what kind of long term game this is going to be they'll be able to come up with something.

[Ninjaxenomorph]

We've been playing for two months. I asked for backstories before we started, and I ask every time we meet.

[Bulhakov]

Basically, this boils down to I'm running a serious game and some players aren't taking it seriously.

Do the players want a serious game?

This comes down to the frequent argument who's more important - DM or players, and why are you gathering to play at all? In my long DMing carreer I always took the stance that the DM's job is to give the players what they want, and help everyone to have fun (not force them to). If some players are ruining the fun for the others - bring up the issue, resolve conflict, etc. But if some players are ruining the fun for you but everyone else is enjoying the game - I say suck it up and adapt a more casual style, so everyone has more fun, or just don't DM.

[Segev]

Games are for fun. If "homework" isn't fun, people are less likely to do it. Do you want them in your game? If so, work with them, don't berate them. If you don't want them in your game (perhaps because they won't put in the time and effort you feel is necessary to make the game enjoyable), that's fine, but you need to recognize that and let them know this.

If you want them in your game and don't want to just kick them, then don't tell them they owe you a backstory, like they're wayward students and you're their teacher. Instead, invite them to spend some time with you coming up with backstories.

Don't use "I'll make unflattering backstories" a threat. That's antagonistic and punitive, and not likely to make them enjoy the game more.

Instead, look at what they're building and think about what YOUR plot could use, and then discuss with them options and ideas for how their PCs fit into the world. Run ideas for their backgrounds past them; they might latch onto something and build from it, or they might just say "sure, whatever," but either way, you'll have a backstory they are at least not upset with and thus everybody can play in the depth you feel necessary.

[ReaderAt2046]

It's also possible that your problem players want to determine their backstory organically, during the course of play.

At the beginning of a campaign I'm in, I had no backstory for my character beyond the idea that he was a generic sort of goon/bruiser. During the course of the first couple of sessions, I noticed that I was roleplaying my character as being a lot smarter and a lot more educated than a average street goon would be. So I started thinking about why a person who had been raised in the higher echelons of society would be pretending to be nothing more than a plain bruiser. So I came up with the idea that my character was a bastard of a high noble house, who had been raised among nobility due to his mother being the favored daughter of the House leader, but had been kicked out onto the streets upon her death. I floated this idea to the GM for approval, and he OK'd it. Shortly thereafter, plot points began surfacing that were connected to my new backstory (I ran into an old acquaintance who'd made good in a big way, and learned that my birth family was going through a bit of a succession crisis).

[JoeJ]

I strongly recommend reading the post by the Angry GM about the eight kinds of fun. Not everybody enjoys coming up with a backstory for their character, and for some people, being forced to do so can ruin part of their fun.

[LibraryOgre]

So, you want backstories, they're reluctant to give you one. One option is to make that part of the game... they don't know where they came from. You start putting things in the game that react to the backstory they don't know.

Alternatively, rather than making a crappy backstory (indenture to a guild or something), make a convenient one. What will make your bigger story work? Nine times out of ten, I find a backstory gets you started, but the main drive of a story is what happens in the game. The players tend to be more invested in it, and they tend to be more invested as a group, rather than "Crap, we've got to deal with Bob's backstory" it's "We need to get the bastards who screwed us over."

[Lvl 2 Expert]

I have nothing to add on topic, but this title is awesome. It sounds like someone is gaming with their parents. "That's 286 damage, you're dead, again." - "Go do your homework!"

[Flickerdart]

The implied answer to my rhetorical question was that Han's character would have been cheapened.

Han's character would have had less stuff about him in the movies, but Star Wars would have been fine. The same is true of your players - if they don't flesh out their characters, the characters will be less interesting, but the game will be fine.

[Ninjaxenomorph]

Part of this comes from the fact that in a lot of games I play, my backstories have been snubbed, even when others have theirs brought up. It's a sign of GM neglect to me when the GM does not consider the character and the backstory. I always look for ways to bring it up. For example, out Medium mentioned above is an important noble that fled her family. Her family is also the ruling family of a fairly expansionist empire; the next arc I have planned is going to start hinting that this empire is taking steps to take over the city. A player that dropped out had his backstory pursuing his father, who had insinuated himself into the city's underworld. Guess who would start antagonizing the party?

But yeah, my problem with this was stated earlier: I can't do anything with what I don't have.

[Honest Tiefling]

Firstly, talk to them. Present them not just the request, but the reasoning behind it. Tell them you want it so you can involve their character. If it doesn't appeal? Then I suggest focusing on the ones who have.

Secondly, use the carrot, not the stick. If a player has given you a backstory, show off a few benefits of it. Give the wizard a bonus because he's wandered into another apprentice at the same mage academy he studied at. The Medium encounters rumors of a powerful doodad from the region they are from, so gain a bonus to know about it. Or heck, say that since they are contributing to YOUR fun, you're giving them an EXP bonus. A modest one, but never doubt the obsessive lust for experience points players have.

Thirdly, suggest the bullet format. Bullets are easily enough for me to read to comprehend, and not having to type up paragraphs has gotten me some backstories. Also, if they come early or the story focuses on someone else, see if you cannot get them to take a few moments to write an e-mail during that. They could be quite busy.

Fourthly, speak to the paladin. It isn't just the issue of no backstory, it is an issue of playing differently. See if there is a compromise that can be reached, and if he's aware he's ruining the game for you. Newer players don't always realize that their waaaaaacky antics are not amusing everyone. Asking for a backstory is not going to help after two months.

[Ninjaxenomorph]

I have spoken to the paladin's player, and he has agreed to let me come up with a backstory for his character. And I have one in mind, one that both ties into the world and explains some of his... idiosyncrasies. Hopefully the other players will follow suit.

[Segev]

I have spoken to the paladin's player, and he has agreed to let me come up with a backstory for his character. And I have one in mind, one that both ties into the world and explains some of his... idiosyncrasies. Hopefully the other players will follow suit.

Good luck!

[Kami2awa]

The implied answer to my rhetorical question was that Han's character would have been cheapened.

Basically, this boils down to I'm running a serious game and some players aren't taking it seriously.

This is a bit harsh on your players. After all, gaming is a leisure activity, not a job! And it's one that inherently can get a bit silly. Your players may not be as on board with the serious business as you.

How much backstory are you demanding? A lot of people lack the time or energy (or creativity) to churn out reams of backstory, most of which may not come up in game. If I was insisting on backstory for my PCs, I'd ask for a few sentences maximum, or give them a short list of questions to answer.

Secondly, why not let them create ad hoc backstory after a few sessions of play? My experience is that this leads to backgrounds that actually fit the character's performance and behaviour a lot better.

[Comet]

I had a period where I though that creating the kinds of dramatic stories I saw on TV and in literature was the goal of playing roleplaying games. So I enforced that vision on my friends, telling them pretty aggressively to create backstories and otherwise take things more seriously.

Their playstyle did not change, they did not take things that much more seriously and I feel like I almost lost them as friends thanks to them feeling like I did not appreciate them at the table. But they did turn in their backstory homework after that: a page or two of the most bog-standard orcs-killed-my-parents stuff you can imagine just written to get it out of the way. They did this even months later when I had mellowed out somewhat and no longer explicitly demanded it. Again and again, those two pages of barely new material for each character.

I had accidentally taught them that this hobby is about bogus paperwork and an entry fee of two pages filled with Times New Roman. They never saw backstory as an opportunity to influence the story, they just thought they had to hand out a token gesture of effort to justify their presence at the table.

[Amphetryon]

... Except they do. In my game at least; I recognize there are other ways to address a character, and I recognize there are other ways to run a campaign. Compositing the player's backstories, the setting, and the campaign direction I have in mind together is my way.

From what you have said, it doesn't seem to be the way your Players are particularly interested in. Are their opinions on the matter important to you, or not?

[Kami2awa]

By expecting players to do additional work outside of the session, you may be hugely overestimating how much free time they have. Any of them work full time? After a day's (or night's) work they may not have a lot of time or energy to do anything. Any of them have children or other family commitments?

If you need backstory so strongly, it might be good to have some time set aside during a game session to create it - this is time people have already put aside for gaming, so why not do it then? It would also potentially allow your players to create interlinked backstories that explain why they are adventuring together!