Barbarian turned Knight... Worth it?

[Skyserpent]

I ran a game a year ago and one player did something that intrigued me...

Pop 1 level of Barbarian in, and then go PHB2 Knight for the rest. Basically your getting some pretty decent skill points and +10 feet to your movement speed but that's pretty much it. Rage goes down the tubes but the big thing is Synergy, with that +10ft movement speed and then armor mastery... you get a tank that moves at 40ft per round in FULL PLATE... pretty nifty I think, but worth it? What do y'alls think?

[Nebo_]

I ran a game a year ago and one player did something that intrigued me...

Pop 1 level of Barbarian in, and then go PHB2 Knight for the rest. Basically your getting some pretty decent skill points and +10 feet to your movement speed but that's pretty much it. Rage goes down the tubes but the big thing is Synergy, with that +10ft movement speed and then armor mastery... you get a tank that moves at 40ft per round in FULL PLATE... pretty nifty I think, but worth it? What do y'alls think?

You won't be moving 40 feet. Fast movement can still only be used in light or medium armour, that has no synergy at all with armour mastery.

[Skyserpent]

You won't be moving 40 feet. Fast movement can still only be used in light or medium armour, that has no synergy at all with armour mastery.

None? none at all? really?

Hello Mithril Full Plate.

nonetheless, that's still some extra dough you'd have to shell out for full usage... is that 10 feet worth it?

[ZeroNumerous]

It's not. 10 feet? Thats not nearly enough. It'd matter alittle more if your barbarian friend took the Whirling Frenzy variant, but otherwise it's just another tank build.

[Skyserpent]

Whirling Frenzy? whassat?

[AtomicKitKat]

Armor Mastery (Ex): Starting at 4th level, you are able to wear your armor like a second skin and ignore the standard speed reduction for wearing medium armor. Starting at 9th level, you ignore the speed reduction imposed by heavy armor as well.

From what I can tell, the "standard speed reduction" part doesn't work with the Fast Movement, but the 9th level version says "the speed reduction", so that works.

[ZeroNumerous]

Whirling Frenzy. It's the form of Rage that functions better when you multiclass out of Barbarian.

[Shhalahr Windrider]

From what I can tell, the "standard speed reduction" part doesn't work with the Fast Movement, but the 9th level version says "the speed reduction", so that works.

Huh?

Is there a "non-standard speed reduction" that does something funky with fast movement that I am not aware of?

Whirling Frenzy. It's the form of Rage that functions better when you multiclass out of Barbarian.

But it replaces rage, so you still lose it if you go lawful. It's still no use to a knight.

[AtomicKitKat]

Is there a "non-standard speed reduction" that does something funky with fast movement that I am not aware of?

"Non-standard speed reduction" being the Barbarian's Fast Movement not working in Heavier Armour.

[ZeroNumerous]

But it replaces rage, so you still lose it if you go lawful. It's still no use to a knight.

Uh, no. Unlike Paladin, Barbarian loses nothing from going Lawful.

[Thomix]

he lose nothing, exept his ability to rage.

[ZeroNumerous]

Rage is not tied with being Chaotic. You cannot be Lawful and take a level of Barbarian, but once you change to Lawful it no longer matters. Alignment restrictions are only in place for when you take the level, not for retaining the abilities of the class.

[Renegade Paladin]

Rage is not tied with being Chaotic. You cannot be Lawful and take a level of Barbarian, but once you change to Lawful it no longer matters. Alignment restrictions are only in place for when you take the level, not for retaining the abilities of the class.

*Sigh* Read the class. If a barbarian becomes lawful, he loses Rage.

Ex-Barbarians

A barbarian who becomes lawful loses the ability to rage and cannot gain more levels as a barbarian. He retains all the other benefits of the class (damage reduction, fast movement, trap sense, and uncanny dodge).

The Player's Handbook has some tripe about primal rage being unable to live in a lawful soul, but of course flavor text is cut from the SRD.

[ZeroNumerous]

Thats incredibly idiotic. Honestly, if I were playing a Barbarian in any campaign I'd ask my DM to houserule that bit away. Now it's really not worth it. Why bother getting that extra +10 when you can just look into getting boots of longstrider instead?

[Nero24200]

Why house rule it away? It makes perfect sense. Rage isn't something that happens simply because the barberian gets angry. It involves primal rituals and such, hence why the barberian -chooses- to use it. Thats also why it confers a bonus, last I checked, being angry didn't make you any stronger.

If you obtain an alignment which shuns these rituals, why should they work?
It would be like saying that Cleric's of Lawful Deitys should still get their powers if they turn chaotic.

[de-trick]

if u want a fast character i'd say play half-elf barbarian wildrunner with boots of speed thats 30+10+10+10=50

[Counterspin]

House rule it away because forgetting how to do something because your alignment changes is asinine. If a now lawful barbarian chooses to not use that knowledge because he now finds it distasteful, fine. But it's not something the system should strip away. Alternatively, ditch it because it makes certain flavorful combinations mechanically crummy.

[Roderick_BR]

None? none at all? really?

Hello Mithril Full Plate.

nonetheless, that's still some extra dough you'd have to shell out for full usage... is that 10 feet worth it?

A full barbarian can use a Mithril Full Plate too, so that's not really that weird.
Yes, you get more skill points at level 1, good, but no too weird. If he were rogue at first level, he would get twice as much.

[Rincewind]

I ran a game a year ago and one player did something that intrigued me...

Pop 1 level of Barbarian in, and then go PHB2 Knight for the rest. Basically your getting some pretty decent skill points and +10 feet to your movement speed but that's pretty much it. Rage goes down the tubes but the big thing is Synergy, with that +10ft movement speed and then armor mastery... you get a tank that moves at 40ft per round in FULL PLATE... pretty nifty I think, but worth it? What do y'alls think?

Whenever a barbarian goes lawful, and a knight MUST be lawful, the barbarian loses ALL of his class abilities, including the speed.

But if you customized your game and removed the rule of knights being lawful.. Well, DMs are made of mistakes, welcome the the broken game my son.

[DaMullet]

Did you look at the quote just a few posts up before you spoke? It quite clearly states:


Ex-Barbarians

A barbarian who becomes lawful loses the ability to rage and cannot gain more levels as a barbarian. He retains all the other benefits of the class (damage reduction, fast movement, trap sense, and uncanny dodge).

I've bolded the relevant parts.

[Setra]

if u want a fast character i'd say play half-elf barbarian wildrunner with boots of speed thats 30+10+10+10=50

Or just a Monk.

[Spiryt]

Why house rule it away? It makes perfect sense. Rage isn't something that happens simply because the barberian gets angry. It involves primal rituals and such, hence why the barberian -chooses- to use it. Thats also why it confers a bonus, last I checked, being angry didn't make you any stronger.

If you obtain an alignment which shuns these rituals, why should they work?
It would be like saying that Cleric's of Lawful Deitys should still get their powers if they turn chaotic.

I doubt it work that way. You DON'T have to be member of some primal tribe to be barbarian. If you take it as a second class ec, you can just represent person who fights (and generaly behave) in reckless, wild way, and almost certainly like it.
Still, such person for sure isn't lawful. If she is, she can't throw self in such state.

[Person_Man]

If you want Rage + Lawful alignment, you can pick up a few levels of Half Orc Paragon. They don't have an alignment restriction.

Or anyone can just buy Boots of Striding and Springing for +10 movement, in any armor, for only 5,500 gp.

I'd also note that Knights tend to do best on a mount with a lance, so they'll benefit from a fast movement rate and have a reach weapon they can use with a shield (though an animated shield and a lance wielded 2 handed is even better). Plus they get Mounted Combat for free. My preferred Knight build uses a mounted Strongheart Halfling.

[de-trick]

it would be a lot of role playing though how does a savage beast of a man turn into a noble knight

[Spiryt]

Maybe he will combine both those personalities.
Berserkers want what we all want. Civilization.

Although to be well spoken ec. you still absolutely had to be lawful

[Skyserpent]

He got the bootsw of striding and springing TOO which gave him a 50ft movement speed. He seemed to like it. and it honestly gave him some pretty good tactical options considering no one expected someone in full plate to be able to move that quickly and I can't remember exactly what else he did with that speed.