What's a good AC?

[Dhavaer]

I'm not good at boosting my characters' AC, generally to the extent of having AC 10 or so points lower than attack bonus. I might, though, be missing something, and having an AC this low is normal.

So, what is an average AC for a frontline combatant? Say levels 1, 5, 10, 15 and 20.

[Spiryt]

I can only join the question. It's kinda dumb that only offensive abilities of melee fighters are growing up...

[Matthew]

At Level 1, 18-20 is fairly normal (+2 Dex, +4 Armour, +2 Shield, +X)

By Level 5 you should be capable of getting an AC anywhere from 20-30.

By Level 10 you should be getting 30+

After that, it's beyond my experience of averages

[Rahdjan]

I don't have much experience in the higher end game, but I'm pretty sure at that level, defense is more defined by Damage Reduction and straight up miss %. Besides, if you build up a really high AC, that usually means your sacrificing your offensive capabilities and that doesn't help you at all. A front line fighter that can't hit or be hit is going to be ignored.

[Smiley_]

For level 1, an AC of at least 17 is pretty good, seeing as how most opponents don't have much Attack Bonus.

For level 5, you should have at least a +1, maybe + 2 enchantment on your armor. You should have breastplate or full plate rather than scale mail or a chain shirt rather than leather armor. This should give an AC of at least 20.

For level 10, you will have minor rings and amulets of armor and natural armor. this should boost your AC to at least 25.

For level 15, the armor should at the very least be 28.

At level 20, assume everything is maxed out. An AC of..lessee...about 41.

If you have trouble with AC, I suggest playing a constitution based barbarian. You can have them last longer than other, more heavily armored characters while having a significantly lower armor class.

[TheOOB]

What constitutes a good AC is based on what kinds of enemies your DM throws at you. Generally speaking, as a frontline fighter my goal (which I don't always meet) is to have an AC equal to my attack bonus plus 10, which gives me a fifty percent chance to avoid an attack from a opponent who is equally skilled as me. Since most opponents won't be as skilled as me that means I take fairly little combat damage.

Anyways, heres some entirely subjective good AC scores.

Level 1: 14
Level 5: 19-20
Level 10: 25-26
Level 15: 31-32
Level 20: 36-40+

AC isn't to hard to buff, and you can get pretty insane AC scores at high levels without trying too hard. For example at level 20 the following is reasonable

43AC = 10 Base +13 Armor(Mithral Full Plate +5), +3 Dex, +5 Deflection(Ring of Protection +5), +5 Natural(Amulet of Natural Armor +5), +7 Shield(Heavy Shield +5(Animated if needed))

With combat expertise, conditional modifiers, dodge and insight bonuses you could pump that even higher.

[The Vorpal Tribble]

Yeah, it depends on the level. I'm not much good with it either. Basically if you don't have high dex or a class that oomphs it up you gotta burden yourself with a dozen or so magical trinkets.

Personally I prefer the Defense Bonus alternate system. Even then I think you should STACK that with armor.

[Matthew]

TheOOB: 14 AC for a Level 1 front line combatant? Wow, that's interesting. Are we talking just Scale Armour, then?

[TheOOB]

TheOOB: 14 AC for a Level 1 front line combatant? Wow, that's interesting. Are we talking just Scale Armour, then?

While you would optimally have a lot more (say 5 from chain mail, 2 from a heavy shield, 1 or 2 from dex for 18-19AC), 14 AC is survivable and not difficult to obtain with the resources of a starting character (that would be scale mail, which is common for first level characters). Considering that +4 is about how much attack bonus a 1st level warrior type would have (1 BAB, 3 from 16 Str) that fits into my trying to get around a 50% miss chance.

[Icewalker]

Basically, if you are trying for maximum possible AC, almost to the point of minmaxing (but without), you could have 26 at first level (+3 dex, +8 plate, +4 tower shield, +1 buckler).

[Starbuck_II]

I'm not good at boosting my characters' AC, generally to the extent of having AC 10 or so points lower than attack bonus. I might, though, be missing something, and having an AC this low is normal.

So, what is an average AC for a frontline combatant? Say levels 1, 5, 10, 15 and 20.

Shoot for: 15 + 1.5 Character level (round down in D&D if decimal)
Level 1: 16 (more is better but this is good)
Level 5: 22
(Level 7: 25)
Level 10: 30
Level 15: 37
Level 20: 45

This is what is needed to not be hit regularly (bases on CRs in the MM).

To add more:
I am a level 7 a Wu Jen with 26 AC (I'd be 8 but I crafted gear). Parties mostly level 8.
I don't get hit often due to AC around the "good" rating. (it is hard spending on gear when have to buy spells as well).

You'd be suprised how often enemies get near me (we have like 4 melee guys and none of them holds enemy back...sadly). A CW human Samurai, a dwarven Fighter, a Human Dragon Shamen, and Level 6 a Elf Fighter (kinda a new guy to the game + died).
We have a big party though: 4 melees, the scout (he is melee/ranged), the Favored Soul (heals/fights), human wizard (he is big on blast spells), my Wu Jen (never tried one before: they have a few interesting spells), and sometimes a Druid.

But yeah: I'd say that is a good guideline. It is okay to deviate a little from that (the Fighter and the Samurai do as well as the wizard but the has stuff like mirror image)
But you'll be hit more often than not (at least they do).

[Smiley_]

Basically, if you are trying for maximum possible AC, almost to the point of minmaxing (but without), you could have 26 at first level (+3 dex, +8 plate, +4 tower shield, +1 buckler).

What rules are you using? A suit of Full Plate costs 1000 or so GP and out of the buying range of first level characters. at most, they can get a suit of scale mail if you take into consideration all the other junk he buys. The plate mail only allows + 1 dexterity maximum, and you can't stack shields. A tower shield gives + 3 AC at most and you need a feat to use it. That would be 20 AC for that build, assuming you have a DEX score of 16 or higher.

[Starbuck_II]

What rules are you using? A suit of Full Plate costs 1000 or so GP and out of the buying range of first level characters. at most, they can get a suit of scale mail if you take into consideration all the other junk he buys. The plate mail only allows + 1 dexterity maximum, and you can't stack shields. A tower shield gives + 3 AC at most and you need a feat to use it. That would be 20 AC for that build, assuming you have a DEX score of 16 or higher.

The Psi Warr can do this with the power Call Armor, but no tower shield.

So Max AC (for a few minutes/per manifesting): AC 10 + 1 (dex) +8 (full plate) + 2 (heavy shield)= 21 I think.

[Matthew]

While you would optimally have a lot more (say 5 from chain mail, 2 from a heavy shield, 1 or 2 from dex for 18-19AC), 14 AC is survivable and not difficult to obtain with the resources of a starting character (that would be scale mail, which is common for first level characters). Considering that +4 is about how much attack bonus a 1st level warrior type would have (1 BAB, 3 from 16 Str) that fits into my trying to get around a 50% miss chance.

Truly, the mind boggles. Interesting viewpoint, though. I would have thought AC 14 was the minimum for frontliners at level 1, rather than the average, but I suppose Orcs have about that.

[JaronK]

If it helps any, the gestalt gish I built recently for a level 15 campaign has an AC of 28, DR 1/-, and 40% concealment, plus the ability to cast mirror image.

JaronK

[Ramos]

An average unbuffed (counting short-time buffs as separate) AC is 10 points higher than the total attack bonus of an equal CR full BAB opponent.

At level 5 you're facing Archierais, Trolls and young Black Dragons. The average attack bonus of these is +10 so you need an AC of 20 to be hit only half the time.

At level 10 you're facing Bebiliths, Fire Giants and adult White Dragons. The average attack bonus of these is +21 so you need an AC of 31 to be hit only half the time.

At level 20 you're facing Balors, Pit Fiends and old Red Dragons. The average attack bonus of these is +33 so you need an AC of 43 to be hit only half the time.


So, average AC is:

lvl 5: 20 AC
lvl 10: 31 AC
lvl 20: 43 AC

Good AC means you're hit only 1 out of 4 times so it is 5 points higher:

lvl 5: 25 AC
lvl 10: 36 AC
lvl 20: 48 AC

Superior AC means you're hit only on a natural 20 so it is another 5 points higher:

lvl 5: 30 AC
lvl 10: 41 AC
lvl 20: 53 AC


Note however that these numbers are when both you and the monster are unbuffed meaning without short-time buffs you both may cast just before combat. Also, these are the average numbers-some monsters have notably lower attack bonus while others have notably higher. E.g. the Tarrasque has +55 average attack so against it a 20th level character must have an AC of 65 to have average chance to avoid hits. To have superior AC against the tarrasque, you must have an AC of 75. You'd better look for other defences against Big T.

In Epic games, the required AC gets higher and higher. Do not, for any reason, go in epic games without an AC of 50 minimum and a touch AC of 40 minimum. You'd be toasted by the first meele critter you'll meet.

[Belial_the_Leveler]

Scary, is it not? How high a good AC is? Us DMs usually go easy on you PCs most of the time. If that dragon power attacked as it should, you'd all be dead in one full attack.

[02youeng]

Best AC on a lvl 1 character I can think of [base races]:

10 + 1 [small] + 5 [chainmail] + 4 [tower shield] + 2 [dex]

22 AC

[Matthew]

Nope. There are loads of ways to increase that. Three Feats = +3 AC, for instance.

[Shoyliguad]

at higher levels its more about increasing your miss chances so its like a 1% to hit and then you have to try and get through armor.

[Gralamin]

I find a Binder with improved Binding is a good way to get AC at level 1.
By Binding Savnok you can get masterwork full plate (+8), Add in some dex (+1), and The Damage Reduction (DR 1/Piercing) and you've got a fairly effective AC (at 19) with some Damage Reduction.
By taking Fighter on the next level, and adding in a Tower shield (or taking proficiency) you can get AC 23 by level 2.

[Armads]

Kobold Binder 1 binding savnok
+8 armor from called full plate
+4 shield from tower shield
+1 dex modifier
+1 natural armor
+1 size modifier
+1 dodge from Dodge target
+4 dodge from total defense
AC: 30

[the_tick_rules]

there's always a better AC.

[Gralamin]

Kobold Binder 1 binding savnok
+8 armor from called full plate
+4 shield from tower shield
+1 dex modifier
+1 natural armor
+1 size modifier
+1 dodge from Dodge target
+4 dodge from total defense
AC: 30

penalty on attack rolls from not being proficient with the shield. You also do not have the feats to take Dodge (having 1 feat, before flaws).

Also total Defense is almost never worth it. Your no good if you can't hit stuff.

[Tokiko Mima]

Well, I think the easiest way to analyze this is to look at Attack bonus progressions. A roll of 20 will always hit you, so you want your AC to be high enough so that the critter needs a roll of a 20 to hit you with a regular attack roll.

So an ideal AC would probably be (your level + 20) give or take a few points depending on how strong/weak the foes are you're fighting. A good AC would be a few points less than that.