How to make the druid more powerful metagaming

[de-trick]

yeah i got a sweet plan for a druid first after i get wildshape 4th lev take Lev in master of many forms(gain ability to speck in wildform, wildshape into humanoid help sneaking around lol) then take 2 more levels in druid then take a level in warshaper(immune to critical and stunning,and morpic weapon gain natural attack in wildshape)

6th druid/1 master of many forms/ 1 warshaper

all that no natural spell though dm wont let me take it oh well

feats as human
1st alertness
1st combat casting
3rd endurance
6th extra wildshape

[greenknight]

Druids are already one of the most powerful classes in the game. If you want some ideas, try reading through this.

[melchizedek]

Do you actually think the druid needs to be more powerful? As far as I can tell, the druid is already ridiculously powerful. Increasing their power is only going to break the game even more. Unless your campaign is designed for extremely optimized characters, don't even try it.

[de-trick]

players are always trying to have best character so taking a overpowered class and get a prestige that makes the character better

[greenknight]

players are always trying to have best character so taking a overpowered class and get a prestige that makes the character better

It might make the character better, but will it make the game better? Your DM has already disallowed Natural Spell, so I'm guessing the DM is trying to keep the class in balance with the others. If you do this, then the DM is probably just going to nerf even more stuff.

[Leon]

players are always trying to have best character so taking a overpowered class and get a prestige that makes the character better

Are they.....?

Last PC i played was a lvl 16 Ranger, prior to that was a Lvl 10 Fighter - two classes that a regarded with less favour on these boards and i had a ball with them

Am curently playing a Druid with the Zilla Features removed and suplemented with Variants - focused around a sole aim that suites the setting, havent done much yet but it looks to be good

[Neon Knight]

Are they.....?

Last PC i played was a lvl 16 Ranger, prior to that was a Lvl 10 Fighter - two classes that a regarded with some scorn on these boards and i had a ball with them

Am curently playing a Druid with the Zilla Features removed and suplemented with Variants - focused around a sole aim that suites the setting, havent done much yet but it looks to be good

I think you're misinterpreting what people on these boards say. From reading, I got the impression that no scorn was involved.

They aren't saying, "ZOMG, teh fighter suxxors!"

They're saying "The fighter and other classes have less power than casters and CoDzilla. They have less ability to effectively defeat challenges and affect the game world."

They aren't scorning it; they're stating that mechanically, it is weaker. Mechanics and Roleplaying, although related, are not joined at the hip. They have some independence from the eachother.

[de-trick]

well unless u want ur character to die or something also it helps the entire party if a player in the group has a powerful character

[Neon Knight]

On topic, I'd be careful about trying to get too much power. It sounds like the DM is trying to compensate for the greater ability of the Druid, and attempting to foil his efforts will only earn you the wrath and malice of someone who is effectively god to your character.

[de-trick]

true but fun to try and have super stone character

[MeklorIlavator]

Having 1 super-powered character in a group is ussually not good. The DM either gives the 1 super power a challange that kills the party, or the party continues, but the super power makes everything a cakewalk. Thus it is better to have a relativly even power level in any given power.

[Amphimir Míriel]

Druids are already one of the most powerful classes in the game. If you want some ideas, try reading through this.

Thanks, I will be taking a look at it to see what else needs to be banned

De-Trick: please let me know of your findings, there might be something they missed.

On the meantime, Natural Spell is banned, Dinosaurs have type "Dinosaur" instead of "Animal" (exact same thing, save for the name) and Dire/Celestial/Fiendish/Horrid/etc. animals are not valid wild-shape options nor valid animal companions...

Alternatively, PC druids that reach 5th level are encouraged to select the "Aspect of Nature" which is flavorful and easier to manage that regular wildshape.

Also, the gods of nature frown at a Druid that summons animals as expendable meatshields... Scouts? yes, Guardians? certainly... but the responsible druid doesnt summon something that he knows will be dead in a round or two, having fulfilled no other task than to give a flanking bonus to the wildshaped druid.

-

Now, seriously... while I have indeed implemented some house rules to limit wizards and CoDzilla, I have been blessed with players that are either newbies or very balance conscious, so I have never yet used them...

[Leon]

I think you're misinterpreting what people on these boards say. From reading, I got the impression that no scorn was involved.

They aren't saying, "ZOMG, teh fighter suxxors!"

They're saying "The fighter and other classes have less power than casters and CoDzilla. They have less ability to effectively defeat challenges and affect the game world."

They aren't scorning it; they're stating that mechanically, it is weaker. Mechanics and Roleplaying, although related, are not joined at the hip. They have some independence from the eachother.

Ok, i'll take back the scorn, but i stand firm that being mechancialy weaker is no means to not play something and that powerful isnt necessarly better

[Tweekinator]

well unless u want ur character to die or something also it helps the entire party if a player in the group has a powerful character

true but fun to try and have super stone character

players are always trying to have best character so taking a overpowered class and get a prestige that makes the character better

{Scrubbed}

[Fawsto]

More powerful? Try polymorphing into Pun Pun.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Planar Shepherd.

3 wishes/day at no cost
20:1 time dialation
game-breaking forms to change into...

Short of pun-pun, this is it.

[Starbuck_II]

Also, the gods of nature frown at a Druid that summons animals as expendable meatshields... Scouts? yes, Guardians? certainly... but the responsible druid doesnt summon something that he knows will be dead in a round or two, having fulfilled no other task than to give a flanking bonus to the wildshaped druid.

But the animals aren't even harmed in the battle?

Or is the DMs houserule that they are?!

[Person_Man]

Read the various errata and sage articles about polymorph/wildshape. It's been seriously nerfed, largely as a reaction against Master of Many Forms and similar boneheaded PrC and PC's who want to turn into War Trolls. You no longer take on the type or many of the special abilities of the forms you take, along with a bunch of other very difficult to understand restrictions. Rich even wrote two articles trying to come up with a workable house rule system for it.

Also, from an optimization point of view, Warshaper is a poor idea. It doesn't progress spellcasting, animal companion, or the maximum HD of your Wildshape form. You can get all of its useful abilities (better Str and Con, Immunity to crits, better reach) by just progressing in Druid and taking the right feats.

And finally, its a very poor idea to try and purposefully thwart your DM or other players. I love to optimize. For those of us who enjoy statistics it can be a fun exercise. And it gives you and everyone else in your party more options, thus allowing the DM to throw more difficult, varied, and complex encounters at you. If done well, it raises your D&D game to a much higher, and in my opinion better, level. But unless everyone in the party is at vaguely similar power levels, the game can quickly break down. And then no one is having a good time. And who in their right mind would want that?

[Matthew]

[Scrubbed]

Erm, whilst I agree with the sentiment. There are friendlier ways to express it and we're encouraged to so on these Forums, or such is my understanding.

[de-trick]

i was in a hurry ok i had to get off the computer for my sister to go on.

[Illiterate Scribe]

How to make the druid more powerful - Planar Shepherd. Wild shape into a Solar to gain full Cleric casting, 6 times each day? Yep.

Theoretically optimised builds are never that fun when playing in a group, though.

[Matthew]

"Call that a Knife? THIS is a Knife!"

[Piccamo]

{Scrubbed}

I don't know that the editing was necessary. All he was doing was quoting Jules Winnfield at an appropriate time. Its not like he was insulting the person, he was asking an honest question.

"Call that a Knife? THIS is a Knife!"

"Thats not a knife, thats a spoon!"

[Amphimir Míriel]

But the animals aren't even harmed in the battle?

Or is the DMs houserule that they are?!

How do you expect a wolf/bear/eagle not be be harmed if you order it to attack a displacer beast/hill giant/troll in order to cover your escape?

[greenknight]

How do you expect a wolf/bear/eagle not be be harmed if you order it to attack a displacer beast/hill giant/troll in order to cover your escape?

The description of Summoning type spells indicates that even if a summoned creature is "killed", it doesn't really die. It just goes away and reforms after 24 hours (presumably none the worse for wear). By implication, it would seem that any harm which comes to a summoned creature is undone when the spell ends, or at least within 24 hours, so while a summons might inconvenience a creature, it will never cause it's death.

[Rama_Lei]

Thanks, I will be taking a look at it to see what else needs to be banned

De-Trick: please let me know of your findings, there might be something they missed.

On the meantime, Natural Spell is banned, Dinosaurs have type "Dinosaur" instead of "Animal" (exact same thing, save for the name) and Dire/Celestial/Fiendish/Horrid/etc. animals are not valid wild-shape options nor valid animal companions...

Alternatively, PC druids that reach 5th level are encouraged to select the "Aspect of Nature" which is flavorful and easier to manage that regular wildshape.

Also, the gods of nature frown at a Druid that summons animals as expendable meatshields... Scouts? yes, Guardians? certainly... but the responsible druid doesnt summon something that he knows will be dead in a round or two, having fulfilled no other task than to give a flanking bonus to the wildshaped druid.

-

Now, seriously... while I have indeed implemented some house rules to limit wizards and CoDzilla, I have been blessed with players that are either newbies or very balance conscious, so I have never yet used them...

While I like the concept behind aspect of nature, it doesn't really allow for much variety. It's much cooler to transform into a bird,or wolf, than be able to fight like one. If they added more aspects and more flavor text, it's a real possibility.