Claws (again!)

[Pagz]

Hey all, the last game I was making a claw character for I kinda lost interest in. Anyway, We're starting at level 1.

Stuff I can use:
Any non-good, Human only, PHB, DMG, BoVD, all the Completes except for the Complete Scoundrel. We also get a bonus feat at level 1.

Stats (We were given stats, but hey can be changed around in any order):
Str: 18
Dex: 16
Con: 16
Int: 14
Wis: 12
Cha: 10

This is what I've got so far...

Ranger 1: Willing deformity, deformity (claws), Combat expertise.
Ranger 2: Combat Style: Two weapon
Ranger 3: Weapon focus: claws
Ranger 4:
Ranger 5:
Kensai 1: Signature Weapon (claws), Improved Natural weapon (claws)

And so on.

Now I know using claws is a massive handicap for a character, this guy is more of a RP guy, someone I've wanted to play, so I'm asking the boards as to how I can make him better (I'll reply to this thread! ). Although character sheets need to be in by Friday *gulp*, even when I've summited we can still figure out where he's gonna go (as long as it uses the levels I've already got). By the looks of the first 6 levels, however, its pretty tight to what feats I can use because of prerequisites. This guy will defiantly be sub-par, but he's in the evil party against the protagonists, its more about cool then efficiency although I'd rather him live a little at least.

I was thinking of getting into Kensai ASAP (That way, I may be able to keep up with other melee figher's of the same level), then kinda try and score more extra attacks from feats and such, however the only ones I know are the TWF way, I'm quite n00b, especially when it comes to splat books. At least with claws I don't have to worry about full attack actions!

heh...

[AtomicKitKat]

Too bad Kensai requires you to be Lawful, else you could go Frostrager(book problem too). One-Two Punch lets you get an extra punch in. Plus you can Rend towards the end of the class.

Snap Kick would net you another extra unarmed strike.

[brian c]

Man, too bad you can't use Tome of Battle. This is perfect for Tiger Claw discipline, and for going into the PrC for that.



(I've been mentioning ToB a lot on the boards lately I think, mostly because I just bought it )

[Tengu]

(I've been mentioning ToB a lot on the boards lately I think, mostly because I just bought it )

That's because ToB is so awesome that everyone who buys it starts to love it. Heck, I think it's awesome, and I even haven't read most of it and I never played DND.

[Human Paragon 3]

Half fiend template would give you natural claw attacks and a bite attack to boot. You'd also get the kick-ass batwings and a plethora of evil powers. LA+4

[Ceres]

Here is a very powerful claw-spesific build. However, it requires the psionics handbook, so I guess it's out. Personally, I'd just ask my DM to homebrew something, so he could be up to par with the other characters.

[Lemur]

Two Weapon Fighting won't work in conjunction with claws, since claws are natural attacks. You could fight with a weapon in one hand, and use your other claw hand to attack, but that wouldn't be two weapon fighting, but would instead be an iterative natural attack (at a -5 penalty).

Claws aren't necessarily handicap, but with what you have to work with they are. The biggest problem is the "human only" limitation, as well as the limited book choices. Even if you couldn't use psionics, if you could take the elan race from the XPH, you'd be able to get rapidstrike eventually. Alternatively, if you had acess to Savage Species, you could add the feral template to your human, which has good claw attacks.

Furthermore, if you could be any non-humanoid race (like elan or feral human) you could qualify for Soul Eater, a BoVD prestige class that lets you use energy drain on your natural attacks. If you ask me, that kind of thing would be scarier than kensai any day.

[Pagz]

No two weapon fighting huh... well that ruins half of a moderatly good plan... Every thing everyone has already said i've already thought of, however I cant use any of it. One thing I was thinking of was asking the DM if I can quality for soul eater even though I'm humanoid, which would make everything that little bit more ok, however I dont think she'll let it. We'll, were back to square one. I know the material I have isnt really the best, but its what I've got, and claw's are what I'm using, so I'f anyone can come up with a better build then the one above, I would be very much appreciative. (Another Idea was using the claws you get from dragon heratige feats in complete arcane for spellcasting swift claw attacks, or making a spelltheif/hexblade dragon deciple, I really dont know. Help!)

[Matthew]

You don't need Two Weapon Fighting if you're only making Claw Attacks (see the Skeleton entry in the MM), but you can use Two Weapon Fighting if you make a Manufactured Weapon and Unarmed Strike (Knee, Elbow, etc..) as Attacks, or just two manufactured Weapons. Dunno if that helps.

[Human Paragon 3]

Isn't there a monster feat that gives extra attacks with multiple natural weapons? Multi-attack or something? Your DM would probably let you take that if you had the claws... it's not like it'd be overpowering.

[Matthew]

Yeah, Multi Attack reduces the penalties from -5 to -2 for Secondary Natural Attacks, which in this case would be Claw in the Weapon and Claw combination. Claw and Claw doesn't have to worry about such things.

[Edit] Thinking about it, though, if your Claw is your Primary Attack and the manufactured Weapon your Off Hand Attack does Two Weapon Fighting not work then and why? Oh, Two Weapon Fighting / Natural Attacks, you make my head hurteth.

[Lemur]

I think that the way it works is that as long as you attack with a manufactured weapon, any natural attacks are automatically iterative. I don't think you can declare your natural attack to be primary, then attack with manufactured weapons.

The feat Juris is probably thinking of is Rapidstrike, found in the Draconomicon, and another book I can't think of right now. However, yet again humanoids cannot qualify for the feat. In any case the ultimate use of Rapidstrike is questionable, since at best you can't get it until level 12 (no one gets feats at level 10 anyway, and Rapidstrike isn't on any class' bonus feat list). If your campaign is going to get to that point and keep going, it's a consideration, but otherwise it's not such a big deal.

It's worth pointing out that since claw attacks usually come in pairs, you always get two claw attacks with a full attack action, both at your highest base attack bonus. It doesn't matter how high or low your BAB is, it always works that way. You can't use two weapon fighting and you never get iterative attacks from your BAB, but at the same time, you're already fighting with both hands.

Really though, is human absolutely required? There should be templates from your source material that will change your creature type to qualify for Soul Eater. Feral template and Elan are the close to human in terms of appearance, but even if they're out of the running, there's still Planetouched. Tiefling and Aasimar are similar to humans in appearance while not actually being humanoid.

There's also the the Half-Dragon template. While it's not really a great template in the first place, you said yourself you're not aiming for greatness. It favors melee, and can qualify you for both rapidstrike and soul eater. Thri-kreen from MM2 is a popular choice for claw builds, but it's very un-humanlike.

Sorry if I seem like I'm pushing for soul eater, but I personally really like the class. Being able to energy drain gives you temporary hit points in a fight, and the class also provides you with other bonuses. It's evil, and every time you hit your opponent weakens in more ways than just hitpoints. It's also potentially worth combining with Karmic Strike/Rolibar's Gambit.

[Pagz]

I asked, no soul eater , and yup, has to be human, as it has to do with plot.

So, wait a sec, do I get two claw attacks at maximum BAB with the feat Deformity (Claws)? If I do, that makes things a whole lot better.

Trust me, I would take Soul Eater if the DM would let me... Maybe I could try and find a prestige class that changes my creature type? Although they usually change it at level 10, so not the best idea. Is their a feat that can change your type though?

I'm pretty much writing up the character sheet now as well, so unless your comment is really quick (which I hope it is), he's starting as Ranger 1.

[Matthew]

That's the usual case. If your Character has two Claw Attacks as Natural Weapons and is making only Claw Attacks he gets both at Full Attack Bonus and without the need for Two Weapon Fighting, Multi Attack or whatever. Check out the Skeleton entry in the Monster Manual to see how it works.

[Ramza00]

Isn't there a monster feat that gives extra attacks with multiple natural weapons? Multi-attack or something? Your DM would probably let you take that if you had the claws... it's not like it'd be overpowering.

Rapidstrike and Improved Rapidstrike will give you extra attacks. It is in the Dracomicon, it is mostly a monsterish feat and thus you need to be something like a dragon, aberration, magical beast etc.

[Pagz]

You sure rapidstrike is in Dracomicon? I couldn't find it.

With Kensai's specialty weapons, I was thinking of giving him the +1d6 fire, cold, and electricity bonuses ASAP, would that be better then, say, getting to +5 enchantment bonus first? What bonuses are generally the best for this kind of situation. Also does anyone else know of anyway I can get any bonus natural attacks (say, from a bite or something) using the material I can use?

How do people see this character going in a campaign? Ranger/Kensai compared to, say, a Hexblade? What if my guy was a Ranger/Soul Eater/Kensai?

[AtomicKitKat]

You sure rapidstrike is in Dracomicon? I couldn't find it.

Yes, it is. There are 2 Feat lists in Draconomicon. Look in the "Monster Feats" section, instead of the "Player Feats" one.

Offhand, Primeval10 from Frostburn turns you into Magical Beast from "Humanoid".