I wanna be a wizard!

[Glaivemaster]

Sounds like a bit of a petulant title. Sorry about that, that's just how I view this problem.

Let's start this by giving the relevant information. My D&D group doesn't manage to meet up very often (like, once every few months), and so we never really get long campaigns going. We just stay at someone's house for a few days, and run a mini-campaign with new characters at whatever level I decide to put them at. I'd love to get a campaign going, but that's not possible as it is, and since everyone's leaving for university shortly anyway, there's no point trying now.

Anyway, because we don't have the ability to run a campaign, most of my players like to try a new type of character that they haven't tried before, or that isn't exactly the same as the last one. The character might be different in many or very few aspects; change of class, gender, race alignment or just personality. I encourage this sort of thing, since I like them to see what they do and don't enjoy

However, there is one person in the group who doesn't do this at all. When I first suggested the idea of this group to them, he had had some experience of D&D, and said he wanted to be a Wizard. Lawful Neutral, no special schools. When he played, he was the quiet type of character, roleplayed as someone wise who sat quietly at the back of the party only saying something when necessary. Fair enough, I thought, it's a good enough character concept.

Then I arranged the next session, and told everybody I'd like them to try something new. This guy said he wanted to be a wizard again. I asked if he was going to be pretty much the same as last time, and of course, he was going to be. Wizard, LN, no special schools, quiet character. I tried to convince him he might try something different, but he steadfastly refused. I let it slide that time.

Of course, the next time we met up, he wanted to be a wizard, again I tried convincing him to be something else. First, I tried to convince him to be a different class entirely, a fighter or something. No, definitely not. Ok, maybe someone else who uses spells, like a druid or cleric. Still no. A sorceror maybe? Nope. How about, just being a wizard specialising in a school? No. He won't even play the same class but with a slightly different spin on it, he has to be the same character every time.

At first, I wanted to convince him to try something new for his own benefit. I thought it would be good if everybody got to experiment, and try something new, so that they knew what they enjoyed. Then I wanted him to change for the benefit of the party, so somebody else could take the role of wizard without feeling that it had already been taken (they don't like to overlap too much). Now, I just want him to change because it's annoying me, and it's getting tiring.

Basically, I'm looking for advice on how to get him to try a new character, even if it is a close move to sorceror or specialising in a school. I'm going to run another mini campaign in a couple of months, most likely, and so I've got until the beginning of August to convince him to be a different class.

He knows that I want him to change, I'm not subtle about it any more. So I don't mind any type of advice from straight-out to more subtle measures, but as this is the last campaign I'm probably going to run for a while, I don't want it to be an in-campaign solution which would convince him to be different next time.

Any ideas on how to get him to change?

Thanks in advance

[Like a Lion]

So what you're asking is "how can I make him play something he doesn't want to?"
You pretty much can't.

A better question would be "how do I reconcile what my player wants and what I want peacefully?" That's a tough one. It probably involves communication.

[PlatinumJester]

Uh, kill his wizard in his sleep and then if he makes another one do it again and again and again and again and again and again and again until he gets the point.

[Like a Lion]

Uh, kill his wizard in his sleep and then if he makes another one do it again and again and again and again and again and again and again until he gets the point.

Yeah! Kill the player's character! Wooooo, he'll sure be having fun then!

[Saph]

Does the rest of the group feel the same way? If so, keep on making fun of him for it. After the hundredth crack about Wizardy McWizardBoy and offers to show him which end he's supposed to pick up a sword by, he might change. Then again, he might not.

This is the kind of thing where group nudging works best. After enough nudges, most people usually make an effort to do something different, if just to shut everyone else up. And sometimes, they find that it's not so bad.

Of course, they might just go right back to what they were doing before. In which case, hey, you've done all you can.

- Saph

[PlatinumJester]

Yeah! Kill the player's character! Wooooo, he'll sure be having fun then!

Yeah, thats the point. If he stops liking a Wizard, then he won't play one anymore. His fault for being conservative.

[Dark Knight Renee]

Unless someone else in the group actually wants to play a wizard, just let him play it. If they do, though, you and said player can either ask or insist that it's someone else's turn to play a wizard.

Failing that, top trying to change his class choices and try to get him to play the same crunch differantly. I suspect you've tried this already, though, in which case... just let him play what he enjoys playing. He's not exactly being disruptive by doing so.

[Quietus]

Here's an idea; Try running a game with premade characters. Take the number of players you have, make twice that many sheets, and let them decide whether they want to pick from the pile or just roll and see who gets what.

Don't include a Wizard in the pile of premades.

::Edit:: Alternatively, run a low/no magic campaign, and disallow ALL full casters.

[PlatinumJester]

Persuade him to play a prestige. I would recommend Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil (complete mage or arcana).

[Like a Lion]

Yeah, thats the point. If he stops liking a Wizard, then he won't play one anymore. His fault for being conservative.

Because what you want someone to play should totally take precedence over what they want to play, and it's OK to screw them over until they do what they want?

Geez, come on. A GM should work with the players, not against them.


Edit: I doubt the player will want to play in a no/low magic game, Quietus.

[Glaivemaster]

Does the rest of the group feel the same way? If so, keep on making fun of him for it. After the hundredth crack about Wizardy McWizardBoy and offers to show him which end he's supposed to pick up a sword by, he might change. Then again, he might not.

This is the kind of thing where group nudging works best. After enough nudges, most people usually make an effort to do something different, if just to shut everyone else up. And sometimes, they find that it's not so bad.

Of course, they might just go right back to what they were doing before. In which case, hey, you've done all you can.

- Saph

I'm fairly sure that the rest of the group are annoyed about it in some way, though not as much as me. I've tried the joking, but that doesn't seem to have changed him.

I don't really mind if he goes straight back to it afterwards, that's his choice. If he doesn't like the new class, I have no problem with him not playing it. The fact he claims that he likes the wizard best, despite not actually having ever played anything different is the main thing that gets me

Here's an idea; Try running a game with premade characters. Take the number of players you have, make twice that many sheets, and let them decide whether they want to pick from the pile or just roll and see who gets what.

Don't include a Wizard in the pile of premades.

That is an idea that I've considered before, the main problem being that no-one else gets as much freedom that way. And despite the fact that it sounds hypocritical, I like to give my players freedom, but this is just really starting to get to me. I might do a random adventure before the rest of the campaign with this idea though, see what happens

[MeklorIlavator]

Has he given a reason why? If he has, make the reason untrue. For insance, if he says its becasue the other classes are weak, make the adventures highlight the weaknesses of wizards, and at the same time focus on the strengts of the other classes.

Also, talk to the rest of your players without him, too get their opinions. They might not be annoyed as you think.

[lotofsnow]

Why not just have someone steal his spellbook and spell component pouch? Or, if he's standing in the back of the party, a sneak attack kills wizards pretty easily unless they know it's coming.

[Like a Lion]

Why not just have someone steal his spellbook and spell component pouch? Or, if he's standing in the back of the party, a sneak attack kills wizards pretty easily unless they know it's coming.

Becuase that won't make him like other classes, that'll make him like wizards and hate this game.

[lotofsnow]

Becuase that won't make him like other classes, that'll make him like wizards and hate this game.

That's a good point. I also mis-read the request that it not be an in-game solution.

[Glaivemaster]

Has he given a reason why? If he has, make the reason untrue. For insance, if he says its becasue the other classes are weak, make the adventures highlight the weaknesses of wizards, and at the same time focus on the strengts of the other classes.

Also, talk to the rest of your players without him, too get their opinions. They might not be annoyed as you think.

As far as I can tell, he plays wizard because he likes it best. Though he hasn't had any experience with others, so I don't know how he knows. I think he finds other classes a) Too boring and b) Not enough like a wizard

Why not just have someone steal his spellbook and spell component pouch? Or, if he's standing in the back of the party, a sneak attack kills wizards pretty easily unless they know it's coming.

Like I said, I don't want it to be an in-campaign solution, as we probably won't play again after this, or not within a short enough time that he'd actually remember. And I don't want to just hurt his character to be vindictive if he is a wizard despite my protests

[Dausuul]

I'm fairly sure that the rest of the group are annoyed about it in some way, though not as much as me. I've tried the joking, but that doesn't seem to have changed him.

I don't really mind if he goes straight back to it afterwards, that's his choice. If he doesn't like the new class, I have no problem with him not playing it. The fact he claims that he likes the wizard best, despite not actually having ever played anything different is the main thing that gets me

That is an idea that I've considered before, the main problem being that no-one else gets as much freedom that way. And despite the fact that it sounds hypocritical, I like to give my players freedom, but this is just really starting to get to me. I might do a random adventure before the rest of the campaign with this idea though, see what happens

Why is it getting to you? Presuming that there will be a wizard in the party, why do you care if this guy is the one who plays it? Does he play it in some obnoxious fashion?

If someone else specifically wants to play a wizard, then you should bring it up with the wizard-player and ask if maybe he could take a different role so the other player could try it out. If you have problems with the wizard class itself, disallow it or modify it. If you don't like the way this guy plays his wizards, explain your objections and ask him to change his approach.

But I really don't see any reason why this guy should be forced to change simply for the sake of change. Hey--if playing a wizard is what makes him happy, more power to him. If only all players were so easily satisfied, a DM's job would be much easier than it usually is.

[Skjaldbakka]

You might take a look at magister, from Arcana Evolved, which is very much like a wizard, and fills that role pretty much exactly, but has different flavor. That way, he's doing something different, but still very similar.

That, and I take every opportunity to promote AE spellcasting.

You might also suggest prestige classes (I think Loremaster suits his described temperament).

But in all seriousness, some people just like to play a certain type of character, and will always play that kind of character. Gaming is about escapism, and if he likes to be the wise sagely wizard in his fantasy, by all means encourage that. Its much better than the guy who always wants to play the obnoxious halfling who lies and steals compulsively.

[lotofsnow]

How does he play his wizard? Is he more of a blaster? Battlefield controller?

If you have access to PHB2, the Beguiler is a really sexy class and could be worth pointing out to him.

[Dausuul]

How does he play his wizard? Is he more of a blaster? Battlefield controller?

If you have access to PHB2, the Beguiler is a really sexy class and could be worth pointing out to him.

Ugh. No. Do not encourage the playing of beguilers. You're better off with a wizard.

Beguilers have two settings: Off and Win. There is no middle ground. In any given encounter, a beguiler will either completely dominate, or be totally useless. It's a fantastically annoying class for a DM.

[Like a Lion]

Ugh. No. Do not encourage the playing of beguilers. You're better off with a wizard.

Beguilers have two settings: Off and Win. There is no middle ground. It's a fantastically annoying class for a DM.

How so? Beguilers have plenty of options even against things like undead (Slow) and golems (Solid Fog... + ventriloquism, if you took it), and humanoids with good will saves (like clerics) can be challenging.

[Alysar]

Have you asked him why he wants to never play anything but a wizard?

[Quietus]

Edit: I doubt the player will want to play in a no/low magic game, Quietus.

Maybe, maybe not. I have no doubt that he'd gripe about it, but that doesn't mean he wouldn't play. He might decide to go Bard, though, but at least that's a change - and as long as the DM makes it fairly clear that a "quiet, unassuming bard" just doesn't make sense, that should be fine.

Remember, there's a lot of people out there who are of the opinion that "A game where I can't play my favorite class, is better than no game at all".

[SpiderKoopa]

Lol.
You: A man in full plate runs by while shoving a helmet on your head.
Him: What the hell?
You: It was a helm of opposite alignment! Yay! Now you are playing something a little different. =D
...
Oh, also preists, I forgot to say, no god grants remove curse.

[Glaivemaster]

To those who are saying that letting him play the wizard if he likes it best: Yes, normally I'd be ok with this. However, there are two reasons I'm not: 1) The style in which we play asks for a little variety. Since there is no stable campaign it's nice to have a completely fresh party each time to make sure that each experience is as different as I can make it. 2) He can't know that wizard is his favourite class if he's never tried any others, which he hasn't

Skjaldbakka and lotofsnow: I don't have access to either of those books, and since I don't play often and my money is short as it is, it doesn't feel worth buying them either

Alysar: I've asked him, but he's always quite vague about it. Like I said, his main reason is that it's his favourite class, and that it's his favourite because, well, yeah, whatever. He just likes wizards (that's basically the sort of answer I get)

Quietus: Using a low/no magic game would be the equivalent of just banning him from playing a wizard. If I was willing to do that, I'd have done it already. I'm not going to, because then he'll just be annoyed at not being able to play a wizard, as opposed to actively trying a new class

Remember, the aim is to convince him that other classes might be a nice idea to play, not to force him into not playing a wizard

[ravenkith]

Ban arcane casters.

Allow psionics.

He'll play a psion.

Or, simply say, this campaign, everyone must pick a different class from last campaign: if you don' like it, here's the door.

Or, write up characters yourself, and hand them out to the players, making sure he gets a psion.

It's close enough to a wizard to be something he might like, but it's different enough he might get interested in playing other things.

The bottom line is: if it's bothering you that much, you, as the DM, are the one who's going to have to get the stones up to do something about it.

[Dausuul]

To those who are saying that letting him play the wizard if he likes it best: Yes, normally I'd be ok with this. However, there are two reasons I'm not: 1) The style in which we play asks for a little variety. Since there is no stable campaign it's nice to have a completely fresh party each time to make sure that each experience is as different as I can make it. 2) He can't know that wizard is his favourite class if he's never tried any others, which he hasn't

Skjaldbakka and lotofsnow: I don't have access to either of those books, and since I don't play often and my money is short as it is, it doesn't feel worth buying them either

Alysar: I've asked him, but he's always quite vague about it. Like I said, his main reason is that it's his favourite class, and that it's his favourite because, well, yeah, whatever. He just likes wizards (that's basically the sort of answer I get)

Quietus: Using a low/no magic game would be the equivalent of just banning him from playing a wizard. If I was willing to do that, I'd have done it already. I'm not going to, because then he'll just be annoyed at not being able to play a wizard, as opposed to actively trying a new class

Remember, the aim is to convince him that other classes might be a nice idea to play, not to force him into not playing a wizard

Hmm... okay.

The defining trait of the wizard is that he has a box of clever tricks for every occasion. That's probably what this player enjoys. (Speaking as a lover of arcane casters myself, I sympathize, although I have to say I much prefer spontaneous casters to prepared ones.)

I'm guessing you don't have access to the Book of Nine Swords, or I'd suggest a swordsage. So here's a thought: Make a reasonably high-level game (10-12 or so), and require everyone to multi-class at least three levels. That way the wizard player is not unduly singled out.

He'll probably go with eldritch knight or arcane trickster, of course, but at least he'll be out of the "all wizard all the time" rut, and he will gain some exposure to the abilities of other classes.

[Morrandir]

Show him the Archivist, from Heroes of Horror.

EXACTLY like the Wiz, except it casts Divine spells, instead of Arcane.

Bonus feats are changed as well, but I can't remember what to, and I don't have the book handy, but he might want to give it a shot.

[Glaivemaster]

Ban arcane casters.

Allow psionics.

Ban arcane casters? No

Psionics? I know nothing about (seriously, I need to actually find out what they even are sometime)

Like I said, I don't have any books apart from Core, so I don't want suggestions about classes or abilities from other sources that aren't free and easily accessible.

Dausuul's multiclassing idea sounds like a good one. I might make the characters lower level since we're quite slow at character creation, and we have little enough time. (We generally make them on the day, because nobody else knows what they're doing) But it would certainly be interesting to see what he picks as a different class.

I might even suggest the idea of multiclassing to him with a low level character. Like, level 4, only 2 levels multiclassed.

Oh, and that's the other thing. I wouldn't mind him playing a wizard if he were a different race (he sticks to human), or a different alignment (he's LN), or anything. So any suggestions on how to change these (race especially) would also be great

[Dausuul]

Ban arcane casters? No

Psionics? I know nothing about (seriously, I need to actually find out what they even are sometime)

Like I said, I don't have any books apart from Core, so I don't want suggestions about classes or abilities from other sources that aren't free and easily accessible.

Dausuul's multiclassing idea sounds like a good one. I might make the characters lower level since we're quite slow at character creation, and we have little enough time. (We generally make them on the day, because nobody else knows what they're doing) But it would certainly be interesting to see what he picks as a different class.

I might even suggest the idea of multiclassing to him with a low level character. Like, level 4, only 2 levels multiclassed.

Oh, and that's the other thing. I wouldn't mind him playing a wizard if he were a different race (he sticks to human), or a different alignment (he's LN), or anything. So any suggestions on how to change these (race especially) would also be great

Ah, okay. So it's not just all wizards all the time, it's the Magical Self-Cloning Wizard. Now I start to see why it's getting on your nerves.

The race issue is relatively easy to solve. Make a race-specific scenario. For instance, you could run a drow game; it's set in the Underdark and all the PCs have to be dark elves.

Alignment and personality are harder... many players have "types" that they inevitably drift toward, and it can be tough to break out even when the player is actively trying to do so. Habits die hard.

One possibility is to take the multi-class idea I suggested above, and extend it to a specific class: Everybody has to have at least 2 levels of, say, paladin (an Arthurian-style "Knights of the Table Round" scenario). Paladin is a good choice for this because it backs up its alignment restrictions with a fairly well-defined code, which is not trivial to follow. He can't just be his regular Lawful Neutral self and toss a few coins to beggars. At the same time, since the entire party will be following the same code, he won't have to struggle with it as much.

And then, one other option: If you can't beat them, join them. What if you ran an all-wizards game and required each person to specialize in a different school?