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2020-06-06, 05:59 PM (ISO 8601)
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Any books where the Hero actually accepts the villains offer?
I am, of course, referring to the cliche moment in a story where the villain or villainesse offers a position working for them, possibly also a romantic relationship, and other assorted goodies, if the Hero(or "Hero" I suppose) will come over to their side.
Because I can't be the only person who thought that would make a good read right?
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2020-06-06, 06:04 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2010
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Re: Any books where the Hero actually accepts the villains offer?
If you can stomach anime/manga, medieval politics and economics and the "villain" being a cute anime girl, then Maoyu is basically this premise but with more "I can stop the war peacefully if we just do this complex socio-economic stuff."
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2020-06-06, 06:05 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2005
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Re: Any books where the Hero actually accepts the villains offer?
Arguably, if they're willing to switch sides and join the villain they were never really a hero in the first place.
Or do you mean a double-agent gambit where they "pretend" to join Evil but are still heroic?NOW COMPLETE: Let's Play Starcraft II Trilogy:
Hell, It's About Time: Wings of Liberty
Does This Mutation Make Me Look Fat: Heart of the Swarm
My Life For Aiur? I Barely Know 'Er: Legacy of the Void
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2020-06-06, 06:18 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2010
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Re: Any books where the Hero actually accepts the villains offer?
No I think its more like "hm, maybe it WOULD be better if we worked together by cooperation and I can influence the villain from within to be a better person and thus by cooperation we truly change the world for the better rather than villain change the world for the worse" which y'know probably not the best move realistically speaking but it makes for a good romance/redemption plot.
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2020-06-06, 06:20 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2019
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Re: Any books where the Hero actually accepts the villains offer?
I mean that they're considered by everyone to be the "Hero" that's going to save everyone. Whether or not they live up to that depends on what happens and why, I guess. Although it would be hard to fault a downtrodden, always messed with, always injured hero who suddenly everyone cared about because they could do something for them, for accepting the genuine offer of being wanted by the villain.
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2020-06-06, 06:28 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2009
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2020-06-06, 07:11 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2010
Re: Any books where the Hero actually accepts the villains offer?
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2020-06-06, 08:06 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2011
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- Why am I here?
Re: Any books where the Hero actually accepts the villains offer?
The player can do something like this at the end of the main quest for the Dawnguard DLC in Skyrim. The bad guy gives one last chance to surrender a macguffin to him before the final boss fight.
Then he totally does a Dark Helmet and fights you anyway.
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2020-06-06, 09:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2009
Re: Any books where the Hero actually accepts the villains offer?
Wildbow has several variations on this; it also pops up in Practical Guide to Evil under a few guises. It also appears in Justice League, for example, in the Justice Lords episodes.
It'll generally show up in literature with strong humanist, "everyone has a point" sentiment.Last edited by uncool; 2020-06-06 at 09:06 PM.
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2020-06-07, 07:47 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2009
Re: Any books where the Hero actually accepts the villains offer?
I Am A:Neutral Good Human Bard/Sorcerer (2nd/1st Level)
Ability Scores:
Strength-14
Dexterity-11
Constitution-16
Intelligence-16
Wisdom-12
Charisma-16
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2020-06-07, 08:09 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2015
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Re: Any books where the Hero actually accepts the villains offer?
This is basically what happens in Watchmen, right?
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2020-06-07, 08:29 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2009
Re: Any books where the Hero actually accepts the villains offer?
If I recall, Paper Mario: The 1000 Year Door offers the player that option at the climax of the game.
Also, Undertale sort of has it as an option.
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2020-06-07, 09:12 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2010
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- right behind you
Re: Any books where the Hero actually accepts the villains offer?
In Overlord we sort of have this. We have this legendary hero adventurer Momon who is by far the biggest baddest toughest hero in the entire kingdom. Then in comes the big bad Elder Lich Ainz Ool Gown who has taken over the city. He marches in with his undead army, some little kid is about to be killed, when Momon shows up! Huzzah! We are saved! Momon admits he cant kill Ainz and could only handle a few of his top tier guys but the battle would shatter the city, so ainz makes the offer, "Then join me, be my enforcer. You keep the city from rebelling, and that keeps me from killing everyone who gets in my way." Momon basically goes, "Ok, i see I have no choice, but if you go all undead lich king evil on the city, i WILL destroy you!" And they team up. Of course, the issue here is
But you know, other than that one minor quibble, its basically what you asked about.SpoilerMomon and Ainz are the same person, momon is a character he was playing to gather information and build up a heroic reputation up till now, the entire thing was a play to settle down the peasants and ensure they wouldnt riot"Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum"
Translation: "Sometimes I get this urge to conquer large parts of Europe."
"If you don't get those cameras out of my face, I'm gonna go 8.6 on the Richter scale with gastric emissions that'll clear this room."
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2020-06-07, 09:22 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2020
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Re: Any books where the Hero actually accepts the villains offer?
Spoiler: Major Jojo spoilers!In Part 7, the villain offers to resurrect the hero's friend in exchange for letting him win. The hero breaks down and very nearly accepts, but demands proof that the offer is genuine. Of course the villain was planning to murder the hero the second he got what he wanted, so the deal falls through.
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2020-06-07, 09:33 AM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2009
Re: Any books where the Hero actually accepts the villains offer?
On consideration there is an obvious example (for a given value of hero and villian):
Jedi hero Anakin Skywalker joined Chancellor Palpatine to restore peace and order to the galaxy and save the life of his wife.
With the exception of his wife still dying (not the Chancellor's fault) it worked out well enough for him.
There is even a novel of this - and other novels dealing with the aftermath.
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2020-06-07, 09:43 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jan 2011
Re: Any books where the Hero actually accepts the villains offer?
If we're talking comic books as well...
Birthright by Image Comics. Though considering the situation, Mickey had every reason to take the deal.Don't know your name but bring the pain.
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2020-06-07, 09:50 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2020
Re: Any books where the Hero actually accepts the villains offer?
Yes.
Also seconding the Star Wars example.
Another example, spoiler alert... : in Puella Magi Madoka Magica, The main character allies with the Dark Magical Girl who has a habit of shooting the poor fluffy mascot into pieces. The main character also does evetually make the wish she was not supposed to make. This is just not a happy thing for the villain.Last edited by Vahnavoi; 2020-06-07 at 09:51 AM.
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2020-06-07, 10:14 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2007
Re: Any books where the Hero actually accepts the villains offer?
This happens in the first episode of Galavant. I dont want to explain any more, because it is glorious and you should watch the whole show.
If RPG's have taught me anything, it's that all social and economic problems of the world can be solved through murder.
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2020-06-07, 10:35 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2013
Re: Any books where the Hero actually accepts the villains offer?
If you count fake acceptance to either spy ore cause problems this list https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.p...n/FakeDefector has some.
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2020-06-07, 11:23 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2007
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Re: Any books where the Hero actually accepts the villains offer?
Not a book, but Season 5 of Angel.
Basically, the bad guys, Wolfram & Hart, offer to let Angel and his crew take over the LA office and run it as they like. They use this to try and do good (being as they are Rogue Do-Gooders), but they realize that the Bad Guys were keeping them busy.The Cranky Gamer
*It isn't realism, it's verisimilitude; the appearance of truth within the framework of the game.
*Picard management tip: Debate honestly. The goal is to arrive at the truth, not at your preconception.
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2020-06-07, 11:35 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2019
Re: Any books where the Hero actually accepts the villains offer?
If you want a rationale, it isn't very hard to see,
Stop and think it over pal,
The guy sure looks like plant food to me!
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2020-06-07, 12:01 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2015
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2020-06-07, 12:22 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2010
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- right behind you
Re: Any books where the Hero actually accepts the villains offer?
Dang forgot about that one. Yeah it was awesome. It was both a distraction and also a temptation. Baby steps to the dark side. I cant remember how close it came to working as I know angel and crew setup a trap to make it look like he was falling hard and had a falling out with his team to setup for the series finale, but I cant remember if they always realized what wolfram was up to or if they figured it out at some point when the moral choices got too tricky.
"Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum"
Translation: "Sometimes I get this urge to conquer large parts of Europe."
"If you don't get those cameras out of my face, I'm gonna go 8.6 on the Richter scale with gastric emissions that'll clear this room."
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2020-06-07, 12:42 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2009
Re: Any books where the Hero actually accepts the villains offer?
Neither to memory - Angel was granted a vision which directed him to an evil group, without the knowledge of his team he worked to infiltrate that group so they could be eliminated. The team turned on him - he revealed his plan, and the team went along with it despite not knowing if they were being played or not.
Wolfram and Hart also were upfront about the deal - the heroes could run the operation however they liked, but if the business went under they would merely re-franchise without the heroes running it. To memory they actually had no particular evil plan afoot.
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2020-06-07, 12:54 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2014
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- Avatar By Astral Seal!
Re: Any books where the Hero actually accepts the villains offer?
Didn't this happen in the movie Dodgeball?
The main character takes $1,000,000 from the bad guy, bets it all on his team, and then buys out the bad guy's stock?I have a LOT of Homebrew!
Spoiler: Former AvatarsSpoiler: Avatar (Not In Use) By Linkele
Spoiler: Individual Avatar Pics
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2020-06-07, 12:59 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2010
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- right behind you
Re: Any books where the Hero actually accepts the villains offer?
I remember a scene where we get to see a huge standoff in the office while the WRH "aide" guy is watching through the glass and it turned out to be an illusion to trick him. Im guessing that was the point where angel came clean about his plan and they went along with it?
"Interdum feror cupidine partium magnarum Europae vincendarum"
Translation: "Sometimes I get this urge to conquer large parts of Europe."
"If you don't get those cameras out of my face, I'm gonna go 8.6 on the Richter scale with gastric emissions that'll clear this room."
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2020-06-07, 01:39 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2004
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- Everywhere you want to be
Re: Any books where the Hero actually accepts the villains offer?
Not exactly.
SpoilerThe 'villain' reveals his plan to save the world by enacting a disaster to make people work together against a fake external threat, then reveals that it's already happened, and points out that if the 'heroes' publicly expose his deception the world will most probably be plunged into nuclear war.
They didn't cooperate or help the villain, but they do agree to stay quiet about what they've learned for the sake of the planet. Except one who refuses to cooperate, and commits suicide / is killed by one of the heroes to ensure his silence. (It's... complicated.)Last edited by Caledonian; 2020-06-07 at 01:41 PM.
Alignments are objective. Right and wrong are not.
Good: Will act to prevent harm to others even at personal cost.
Evil: Will seek personal benefit even if it causes harm to others.
Law: General, universal, and consistent trump specific, local, and inconsistent.
Chaos: Specific, local, and inconsistent trump general, universal, and consistent.
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2020-06-07, 01:50 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2015
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Re: Any books where the Hero actually accepts the villains offer?
Eh, semantics. They cooperate by agreeing not to expose the situation. And it's not just that they can't stop him (by virtue of timing), he actually convinces them that his way is right. Well, except that one hold out. But even the villain doesn't silence the hold out -- one of the heroes who has come around to his point of view does it of his own accord. If that's not cooperating, I don't know what is.
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2020-06-07, 02:20 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2004
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- Everywhere you want to be
Re: Any books where the Hero actually accepts the villains offer?
The Dresden Files series has some examples.
SpoilerThe most obvious of which is when Harry Dresden takes the offer extended to him by Mab, Queen of Air and Darkness, of power in exchange for service. Dresden needs power, a lot of it, as quickly as possible, and he decides Mab is the least evil of the options available to him.
Ultimately it becomes clear that Mab isn't truly a villain. She's a very complex antihero, and an extraordinarily dangerous one. But Dresden didn't know that when he made the deal.Alignments are objective. Right and wrong are not.
Good: Will act to prevent harm to others even at personal cost.
Evil: Will seek personal benefit even if it causes harm to others.
Law: General, universal, and consistent trump specific, local, and inconsistent.
Chaos: Specific, local, and inconsistent trump general, universal, and consistent.
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2020-06-07, 02:56 PM (ISO 8601)
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- May 2011
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- material & internet plane
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