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    Default Warlock Patron: The Elder Drake [PEACH]

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    This is my take on a port of the Dragonfire Adept class to 5e. Because of the similarity between the two in 3.5e, I set it up as a subclass for the Warlock. I think I've managed to touch on most of the notable features of the class, though I decided to draw from a combination of the 5e Druid and the 3.5 Dragon Disciple as a capstone (the 3.5 DFA doesn't have a capstone, the closest thing it gets is immunity to sleep and paralysis at level 19, which strikes me as vaguely underwhelming).

    One thing that sets this subclass apart from the PHB Warlock subclasses is the lack of an expanded spell list. Instead, the Elder Wyrm warlock receives draconic-inspired power in the form of an at-will breath weapon. The breath weapon scales in power more slowly than the one received by Dragonborn characters, but it ultimately outpaces its counterpart in damage potential because of the lack of a limitation on uses, and the addition of Breath Effects makes it even more potent.


    The Elder Drake
    You have forged a pact with an ancient dragon, a massive winged reptile possessed of immense power. The dragon's exact motivations for making such a bargain with you varies, usually depending on its coloration. An evil dragon may use you as an agent or a spy to further their own goals, or perhaps a mere toy for their amusement, while a good dragon may request your services as a crusader against evil dragonkind, or to retrieve an ancient relic. Creatures of this type include Fáfnir the Greedy, Kalessin the Creator, Balerion the Black Dread, or even some draconic deities such as Tiamat or Bahamut.

    Those who actively seek out a dragon to forge a pact are often considered to be extraordinarily brave or extraordinarily stupid. They are known by many names, but the most commonly as draconic adepts or dragon disciples. The pacts forged by warlocks seeking draconic power are distinct from those made by certain kinds of sorcerer, but the children of draconic adepts have been known to develop sorcerer powers.

    Dragon Patron
    At 1st level, you choose one type of dragon as your patron. The damage type associated with each dragon is used by features you gain later.
    Dragon Patrons
    Dragon Damage Type
    Black Acid
    Blue Lightning
    Brass Fire
    Bronze Lightning
    Copper Acid
    Gold Fire
    Green Poison
    Red Fire
    Silver Cold
    White Cold
    You can speak, read, and write Draconic. Additionally, whenever you make a Charisma check when interacting with dragons, your proficiency bonus is doubled if it applies to that check.

    You also gain a breath weapon that you can use as an action. Each time you use your breath weapon, you can choose whether it takes the form of a 15-foot cone or a 30-foot line. The save DC for your breath weapon is your Warlock spell save DC.

    Your breath weapon deals 1d6 damage of the type associated with your draconic patron. Your breath weapon's damage increases by 1d6 at third level (to 2d6), then by an additional 1d6 for every three levels in this class thereafter (to a maximum of 7d6 at 18th level). A successful Dexterity saving throw halves this damage. Once you have used your breath weapon, you may not use it again until it recharges. Each round, at the beginning of your turn, roll 1d6. If you roll a 5 or a 6, your breath weapon is recharged.

    Magic Insight
    Starting at 1st level your dealings with dragons have given you special insight into magical items and effects. You know and may cast the spell Detect Magic without expending a spell slot. You also know the spell Identify. Neither of these spells count against your total number of Warlock spells known.

    Scales
    Beginning at 6th level your skin becomes thick and scaly. When you are not wearing armor, your AC is equal to 10 + your Dexterity modifier + your Constitution modifier. You also gain resistance to your patron's associated damage type. The scales can be of any color or metallic hue; they are often (but not always) of a draconic hue that matches your outlook and alignment, or that of your patron.

    Breath Effects
    At 10th level you gain the ability to improve your breath weapon. By expending a spell slot, you can apply one of the effects described below to your breath weapon.
    Spoiler: Breath Effects
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    Sickening Breath. Rather than dealing damage, your breath weapon poisons all creatures in its area for 1d4 rounds. A successful Constitution saving throw negates this effect. You can apply this breath effect only to a cone-shaped breath weapon.

    Sleep Breath. Rather than dealing damage, your breath weapon causes all living creatures in its area to fall unconscious for 1d4 rounds. Any creature that makes a successful Wisdom saving throw is unaffected. You can apply this breath effect only to a cone-shaped breath weapon.

    Entangling Exhalation. Your breath weapon deals only half its normal damage; however, any creature that takes damage from your breath weapon must make a second Dexterity saving throw or else be restrained and take an extra 1d6 points of damage of the same energy type as normally dealt by your breath weapon each round at the start of your turn. This effect lasts for 1d4 rounds.

    Quicken Breath. Your breath weapon can be used as a bonus action rather than an action.

    Paralyzing Breath. Rather than dealing damage, your breath weapon paralyzes all creatures in its area for 1 round. A successful Constitution saving throw negates this effect. You can apply this breath effect only to a cone-shaped breath weapon.

    Split Breath. Your breath weapon retains its size and shape, but splits into two areas that you aim separately. Each portion deals half the damage the breath weapon normally deals. You can apply this breath effect only to a line-shaped breath weapon.

    Extend Breath. The range of your breath weapon is doubled (to a 30-ft. cone or 60-ft. line).

    Lingering Breath. Your breath weapon deals its normal damage, but also remains as a lingering cloud of the same shape and size as the original breath weapon. This cloud lasts 1d4 rounds. Foes caught in the breath weapon's area when you breathe take no additional damage from the lingering breath weapon, provided they leave the cloud on their next turn. Otherwise, anyone who touches or enters the cloud while it lasts takes one-half of the breath weapon's normal damage.

    Empowered Breath. When you roll damage for your breath weapon, you may reroll a number of damage dice up to your Charisma modifier (minimum 1). You must use the new rolls.

    Hypnotic Breath. Rather than dealing damage, your breath weapon charms all creatures in its area for 1d4 rounds. A successful Wisdom saving throw negates this effect. You can apply this breath effect only to a cone-shaped breath weapon.

    Necrotic Breath. Your breath weapon deals necrotic damage rather than its normal damage type.

    Radiant Breath. Your breath weapon deals radiant damage rather than its normal damage type.

    Powerful Breath. Your breath weapon's damage die increases to a d8.


    Draconic Apotheosis
    At 14th level you take on the aspects of your patron, transforming into a dragon of your patron's type.

    Your type changes to Dragon, and your size increases by one size category. You sprout a pair of draconic wings, which grant you a flight speed equal to twice your normal movement speed. If the type of dragon you selected as your patron has any other modes of movement (such as a swim speed or a burrowing speed) you gain that mode with a speed equal to your normal movement. You receive immunity to the damage type associated with your patron. You have a bite attack that deals 2d10 piercing damage + 1d8 damage of your patron's type, and a claws attack that deals 2d6 slashing damage. You gain blindsight out to 10 feet, and darkvision out to 60 feet. If you have either of these senses from another source, their range is instead increased by half these amounts.
    Last edited by UristMcRandom; 2016-07-25 at 11:19 PM.
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    Default Re: Warlock Patron: The Elder Wyrm [PEACH]

    The unlimited breath weapons seems a little excessive, basically unlimited burning hands/aganazzar's with your chosen damage type. Not sure how to balance it, maybe CHA mod uses/ short rest, to retain its constant availability without it replacing a cantrip

    The dragon forms seem way OP imo. Not sure how to balance it, maybe young dragons instead of adults?

    Sleep breath is insanely good, sleep on failed save is ok, but stun(!) on a successful one is excessive. Also, hit dice is an outdated term that doesnt really have much meaning in 5e. Try CR perhaps, and removing the stun.

    The ability to use more than one seems both OP and wasteful at the same time, given how few slots warlocks get. A multiclass warlock/anything else with slots could use these effects far more often.

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    Default Re: Warlock Patron: The Elder Wyrm [PEACH]

    It is interesting that you made a warlock sub-class without bonus spells but you effectively gave it to them as your 10th level feature but your 1st and 14th level features are a way too much.
    1. Your breath weapon scales far too much giving you an effective at will Cone of Cold coming from a Evocationist Wizard. I am assuming your save DC is just a gaffe because there is no way anything but epic level monsters can even make the save. The 5e save is 8+prof. bonus+ability score modifier, just use your spell save DC.
    2. Your 14th level just needs to be redone or changed entirely. Wild Shape is already controversial because it acts like temporary hit points. Using CR 1 creatures may be pushing it but reasonable, but an Adult Dragon and eventually an Ancient Dragon you might as well as be immortal as well as decimating the field single-handedly. The feature would be dubious for a once per long rest ability.
    3. There is no Entangled condition, only Restrained but that is way too good for it being automatic.
    4. One of the great things about the Dragonfire Adept wasn't just the breath weapon but its series of interesting utility. I am a little saddened that you didn't at least attempt to touch on them in bonus spells.
    Last edited by Amnoriath; 2016-02-28 at 12:10 AM.

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    Default Re: Warlock Patron: The Elder Wyrm [PEACH]

    Can I suggest for the fluff that the children of these draconic pacts have been known to produce sorcerers? The fluff of the draconic sorcerer already gives it a warlock-like relationship (and considers being the literal descendant of a dragon to be an alternative source of these pacts). Maybe also make mention that these pacts are similar but different to the sorcery pacts that give rise to first generation sorcerers.

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    Default Re: Warlock Patron: The Elder Wyrm [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Almir View Post
    The unlimited breath weapons seems a little excessive, basically unlimited burning hands/aganazzar's with your chosen damage type. Not sure how to balance it, maybe CHA mod uses/ short rest, to retain its constant availability without it replacing a cantrip

    The dragon forms seem way OP imo. Not sure how to balance it, maybe young dragons instead of adults?

    Sleep breath is insanely good, sleep on failed save is ok, but stun(!) on a successful one is excessive. Also, hit dice is an outdated term that doesnt really have much meaning in 5e. Try CR perhaps, and removing the stun.

    The ability to use more than one seems both OP and wasteful at the same time, given how few slots warlocks get. A multiclass warlock/anything else with slots could use these effects far more often.
    Would it help the breath weapon's case if I made it subject to the same Recharge (5-6) rule that dragons are subject to?

    As for the dragon forms, I could drop it a category (young, then adult at 20th). Something else I'd considered was making its duration equal to 1/2 your Warlock level rounds rather than minutes (which means that a 20th level character can only hold the transformation for a minute). What if I made both of those changes?

    Sleep breath: Yeah, that one was just a big mistake. I'll make it completely ineffective on a successful save (and fix the reference to hit dice).

    I waffled back and forth on whether to allow stacked effects, but looking back (with help from the critique) I can see how that's a mistake. A Maximized Entangling Lingering breath costs three spell slots, but deals maximum damage on the initial hit, plus maximum damage each round for the next four rounds. Needless to say, stacked effects is going away.

    Quote Originally Posted by Amnoriath View Post
    It is interesting that you made a warlock sub-class without bonus spells but you effectively gave it to them as your 10th level feature but your 1st and 14th level features are a way too much.
    1. Your breath weapon scales far too much giving you an effective at will Cone of Cold coming from a Evocationist Wizard. I am assuming your save DC is just a gaffe because there is no way anything but epic level monsters can even make the save. The 5e save is 8+prof. bonus+ability score modifier, just use your spell save DC.
    2. Your 14th level just needs to be redone or changed entirely. Wild Shape is already controversial because it acts like temporary hit points. Using CR 1 creatures may be pushing it but reasonable, but an Adult Dragon and eventually an Ancient Dragon you might as well as be immortal as well as decimating the field single-handedly. The feature would be dubious for a once per long rest ability.
    3. There is no Entangled condition, only Restrained but that is way too good for it being automatic.
    4. One of the great things about the Dragonfire Adept wasn't just the breath weapon but its series of interesting utility. I am a little saddened that you didn't at least attempt to touch on them in bonus spells.
    1) I'll adjust the rate of scaling to be slower. The save, I'll admit, was just copied straight from the DFA. I'll change it to a Con-based spell save DC.
    2) What if I changed it so that you keep your own hit point total in addition to the changes proposed above?
    3) That was another screwup related to just copying the 3.5 text. The effect is very save-or-suck, I'll admit, but that part is intentional. I could allow a second Dex save to be damaged but not restrained.
    4) Most subclasses get a maximum of 2 additional features at the first level they take the subclass. For Warlock patrons, that's expanded spells and one other ability pertaining to your patron, but for this it's the breath weapon and choosing your patron's type. If it wouldn't be too balance-tipping, I suppose I could fit some extra spells in based on what patron type you choose.

    Quote Originally Posted by MReav View Post
    Can I suggest for the fluff that the children of these draconic pacts have been known to produce sorcerers? The fluff of the draconic sorcerer already gives it a warlock-like relationship (and considers being the literal descendant of a dragon to be an alternative source of these pacts). Maybe also make mention that these pacts are similar but different to the sorcery pacts that give rise to first generation sorcerers.
    Ooh, I like that. Good idea!

    Update:
    • Breath Weapon now scales more slowly. Save DC calculation has been corrected.
    • Scales now grant resistance to your patron's damage type in addition to their armor effect.
    • Removed all 3.5 language I found from the Breath Effects list.
    • Changed how Shape Breath works.
    • Added new breath effects that give the warlock access to necrotic and radiant breath weapon damage.
    • Added more debuffs/buffs to breath effects (Slow, Haste, Heroism).
    • Replaced Maximize Breath with Empower Breath. Empower Breath works like the Empower Spell metamagic effect.
    • Completely re-wrote the capstone. It's now a ritual that requires concentration for 1 minute to activate, necessitating that you either activate it before combat (and use up some of its duration) or have someone else protect you while you cast the ritual.
    • Probably something else that I've already forgotten.
    Last edited by UristMcRandom; 2016-02-29 at 12:13 AM.
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    Default Re: Warlock Patron: The Elder Wyrm [PEACH]

    Update:
    • Removed breath weapon scaling.
    • Changed breath weapon damage die to d8.
    • Added "Powerful Breath" effect to replace scaling. By expending a spell slot your breath weapon deals 1d8 damage per three warlock levels.
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    Default Re: Warlock Patron: The Elder Wyrm [PEACH]

    You have forged a pack pact with an ancient dragon, a massive winged reptile possessed of immense power. The dragon's exact motivations for making such a bargain with you varies, usually depending on its coloration. A chromatic dragon may use you as an agent or a spy to further their own goals, or perhaps a mere toy for their amusement, while a metallic dragon may request your services as a crusader against evil dragonkind, or perhaps as a (missing word). Creatures of this type include ancient dragons of all colorations, and even some draconic deities such as Tiamat or Bahamut.

    Those who actively seek out a dragon to forge a pact are often considered to be extraordinarily brave or extraordinarily stupid. They are known by many names, but the most commonly as draconic adepts or dragon disciples. The pacts forged by warlocks seeking draconic power are distinct from those made by certain kinds of sorcerer, but the children of draconic adepts have been known to develop sorcerer powers.

    -----

    I have made some edits in bold. I didn't quote because it would be easier to retrieve the formatting.
    Last edited by MReav; 2016-03-01 at 11:43 PM.

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    Default Re: Warlock Patron: The Elder Wyrm [PEACH]

    I think you've gone too far in weakening it. The breath weapon is now basically useless from levels 2ish-9- you do essentially inconsequential damage to a couple enemies and it's not even at will. Especially drops off to much worse than a cantrip after level 5. And the save is con - based, so your DC is even lower. Even the later abilities just make a laughably pathetic ability sort of decent at the cost of your main resource.
    Last edited by PotatoGolem; 2016-03-02 at 12:22 AM.

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    Default Re: Warlock Patron: The Elder Wyrm [PEACH]

    Update:
    • Breath Weapon once more uses a d6 damage die, scaling has been restored.
    • Powerful Breath now increases damage die to d8.
    • Corrected embarrassing typos in fluff.
    Last edited by UristMcRandom; 2016-03-02 at 04:29 PM.
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    Default Re: Warlock Patron: The Elder Wyrm [PEACH]

    I think its too strong.

    Its straight up better than the dragon stuff straight up dragon sorcerers get, and they ARE part dragon.

    Its also better than the dragon stuff dragonborn get. And they ARE part dragon.

    Its better than both combined even.

    My feedback:

    I would use the breath weapon the dragonborn get, copied word for word including the set area based on dragon type and rest recharge.

    I would copy the natural AC of dragon sorcerers.

    I would change the game breaking dragon polymorph to the dragon wings ability of the sorcerer.
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    Default Re: Warlock Patron: The Elder Wyrm [PEACH]

    This SHOULD be much stronger than dragonborn. Class abilities are always way better than race abilities. There's no class that's not better than any race, so I don't think that criticism makes any sense. High elves are fluffed as master wizards, but a dwarf wizard has way more arcane power than an elf barbarian. Likewise, the barbarian is way tougher, even though dwarves by fluff are strong and hearty and elves are not. Races in 5e just aren't very powerful.

    Also, look at the warlock and sorc subclasses. Warlocks get much more of their power from the subclass, whereas sorc get much more power from the base class and a weaker subclass. This one doesn't even get an expanded apell list, which is huge. I get your fluff objections, but I think you're totally off base on crunch
    Last edited by PotatoGolem; 2016-03-03 at 10:08 AM.

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    Default Re: Warlock Patron: The Elder Wyrm [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by Skaven View Post
    I think its too strong.

    Its straight up better than the dragon stuff straight up dragon sorcerers get, and they ARE part dragon.

    Its also better than the dragon stuff dragonborn get. And they ARE part dragon.

    Its better than both combined even.

    My feedback:

    I would use the breath weapon the dragonborn get, copied word for word including the set area based on dragon type and rest recharge.

    I would copy the natural AC of dragon sorcerers.

    I would change the game breaking dragon polymorph to the dragon wings ability of the sorcerer.
    For the most part, PotatoGolem summarizes my thoughts on this, but here's some additional notes.

    The dragonborn breath weapon is a once-per-rest deal, which is perfectly fine for a racial ability. This subclass, however, is intended as an adaptation of the Dragonfire Adept, the core effect of which (besides its utility invocatons, which I'm still looking for a way to implement) was its breath weapon (and the various effects that could be applied to it). Having the core feature of the class being a once-per-long-rest feature would make this an almost completely pointless subclass (particularly given that the warlock is already resource-starved. It'd be giving up an expanded spell list for a one-shot breath weapon).

    The Scales ability is a Con-based variation on the Monk's Unarmored Defense which also grants energy resistance. That means that it's slightly better than an ability another class gains access to at level 1.

    One thing you have to consider when calling the dragon polymorph "game-breaking" is that it requires concentration for the entire duration. That means that every time you take any damage whatsoever, it forces a Constitution save to remain in dragon form. Granted, Polymorph is balanced for transforming into a dire wolf, not a flying death-lizard, but the fact that a single arrow can end your dragon-time until you take an 8-hour nap still holds the ability somewhat at bay (by my number-crunching, anyway).

    One thing I'm considering is making the capstone more like the Dragon Disciple's Dragon Apotheosis ability (which, for those unaware, turned your character into a half-dragon in what is ultimately a pretty underwhelming capstone). Gain wings, the natural weapons of a dragon (which I realize is an outdated term), etc. Here's what it'd look like:

    Draconic Apotheosis
    At 14th level you take on aspects of your patron, transforming into a creature best described as a half-dragon. You sprout a pair of draconic wings, which grant you a flight speed equal to twice your normal movement speed. If the type of dragon you selected as your patron has any other modes of movement (such as a swim speed or a burrowing speed) you gain that mode with a speed equal to your normal movement. You also receive immunity to the damage type associated with your patron as well as a bite attack (which deals 1d10 piercing damage + 1d6 damage of your patron's type), and a claws attack (which deals 2d6 slashing damage). When you perform the Attack action on your turn, you can choose to make a Multiattack, performing one attack with each of these weapons. You gain blindsight out to 10 feet, and darkvision out to 60 feet. If you have either of these senses from another source, their range is instead increased by these amounts. You also gain the Frightful Presence ability (see below). In addition, your breath weapon is improved. Choose one breath effect; you can apply that effect to your breath weapon once per short rest without expending a spell slot.

    Frightful Presence. As an action, you can force each creature of your choice that is within 120 feet of you and aware of you to make Wisdom saving throw or become frightened for 1 minute. The DC for this saving throw is your warlock spell DC. A creature can repeat the saving throw at the end of each of its turns, ending the effect on itself on a success. If a creature's saving throw is successful or the effect ends for it, the creature is immune to your Frightful Presence for the next 24 hours. Once you've used this ability, you can't use it again until you complete a short or long rest.
    I can't really use this as-is, the formatting is a bit of a mess and for the most part I just pulled it together from the Monster Manual's entry on dragons, but I actually like the concept better than the once-per-long-rest transformation. The free single-use breath effect I'm a little iffy on, particularly with how breath effects already seem to run the gamut from "waste of a spell slot" (Shaped Breath) to "leaning on vastly powerful" (Powerful Breath). I'm a little dissatisfied with breath effects costing spell slots to begin with, though, so it may become a moot point all too soon.
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    Default Re: Warlock Patron: The Elder Wyrm [PEACH]

    Update:
    • Completely reworked Draconic Apotheosis capstone.
    • Breath Weapon class feature has been merged into Dragon Patron, added Magic Insight class feature.
    • Breath Weapon save DC is now Warlock spell save DC rather than its own calculation.
    • Removed buff-granting Breath Effects.
    • Removed Shape Breath effect
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    Default Re: Warlock Patron: The Elder Wyrm [PEACH]

    It all seems pretty much fine except.for the damage on Draconic apotheosis, it seems fair on a number basis since using it makes you pretty MAD, but I'll theory craft more before I say anything else.

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    Default Re: Warlock Patron: The Elder Wyrm [PEACH]

    I'm thinking I'm probably going to open a Recruitment thread to actually playtest this, but any critique you can provide through theorycrafting would be highly appreciated.
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    Default Re: Warlock Patron: The Elder Wyrm [PEACH]

    Looks good to me! I'd probably allow it in a game- let us know how play testing goes
    Last edited by PotatoGolem; 2016-06-17 at 08:26 PM.

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    Default Re: Warlock Patron: The Elder Wyrm [PEACH]

    Looks nice. One thing I noticed is the wings. D.A.s never got wings. Cool as the 8th, though. Your write up has a lot of the items that made the D.A. interesting back in the day. I've actually been messing around with the same concept, and i'll probably post it soon. I would appreciate feedback. Great job with the 'brew.

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    Default Re: Warlock Patron: The Elder Wyrm [PEACH]

    One thing: I don't know if they care, but you might want to rename this pact to lessen the confusion with DracoKnight's Otherworldly Patron: Elder Wyrm.

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    Default Re: Warlock Patron: The Elder Wyrm [PEACH]

    I can see Dragonborn Warlocks taking this just because it makes their dragon abilities less...bad . Dragonborn is one of the weaker races because it only has two features, so a double dose of dragon is sometimes necessary just to make it feel right. Good job on the class - I'm not seeing any glaring issues, although I think it's funny that you basically took the first feature from Dragon Sorcerer and gave it for its Cha-casting brother-in-law .
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    Quote Originally Posted by PotatoGolem View Post
    Looks good to me! I'd probably allow it in a game- let us know how play testing goes
    Playtesting is underway. So far it seems to be going well, but we're only at level 1, so all it has is a breath weapon. I'll try to keep this thread updated with new information as it continues.

    Quote Originally Posted by ravencroft0 View Post
    Looks nice. One thing I noticed is the wings. D.A.s never got wings. Cool as the 8th, though. Your write up has a lot of the items that made the D.A. interesting back in the day. I've actually been messing around with the same concept, and i'll probably post it soon. I would appreciate feedback. Great job with the 'brew.
    Thanks! Give me a link when you get yours up and I'll take a look. The Draconic Apotheosis ability (and all related features) is originally pulled from the Dragon Disciple PrC, rather than the Dragonfire Adept. It also changed a lot since the first version (which was almost verbatim pulled from 3.5) but I kept the name because I liked it.

    Quote Originally Posted by FMLest1998 View Post
    One thing: I don't know if they care, but you might want to rename this pact to lessen the confusion with DracoKnight's Otherworldly Patron: Elder Wyrm.
    As far as I can tell, my Elder Wyrm predates his. I'm not really concerned with it either way, though.

    ...actually, he's got a better list of example patrons than me. I might just steal that (kidding, of course).

    Quote Originally Posted by JBPuffin View Post
    I can see Dragonborn Warlocks taking this just because it makes their dragon abilities less...bad . Dragonborn is one of the weaker races because it only has two features, so a double dose of dragon is sometimes necessary just to make it feel right. Good job on the class - I'm not seeing any glaring issues, although I think it's funny that you basically took the first feature from Dragon Sorcerer and gave it for its Cha-casting brother-in-law .
    Thanks for the feedback. The 1st-level feature, I'll admit, was originally a copy/paste of the Dragon Sorc's 1st-level feature. At the time the breath weapon was a feature of its own, but to give the class more utility I merged Dragon Patron and Breath Weapon and ported in the Magic Insight class feature from 3.5e.
    Quote Originally Posted by OctoberRaven View Post
    "It's a fireball. It's basically a magic hand grenade."
    My Homebrew

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    Default Re: Warlock Patron: The Elder Wyrm [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by UristMcRandom View Post
    As far as I can tell, my Elder Wyrm predates his. I'm not really concerned with it either way, though.
    It doesn't really matter but his came out...7/14/15...eh, he hasn't comment on you using the same name, so he probably doesn't care, but I thought I would let you know ^_^

    Quote Originally Posted by UristMcRandom View Post
    ...actually, he's got a better list of example patrons than me. I might just steal that (kidding, of course).
    His list of patrons is pretty great!

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    Default Re: Warlock Patron: The Elder Wyrm [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by FMLest1998 View Post
    One thing: I don't know if they care, but you might want to rename this pact to lessen the confusion with DracoKnight's Otherworldly Patron: Elder Wyrm.
    Quote Originally Posted by UristMcRandom View Post
    As far as I can tell, my Elder Wyrm predates his. I'm not really concerned with it either way, though.
    It was originally called the Dragon Lord Patron back when I first wrote it last year. But then February of this year, I renamed it "Elder Wyrm." I don't care if you use the name, it's not like I own a trademark on it or anything. Just establishing a timeline so that there's no flaming that happens.

    Quote Originally Posted by UristMcRandom View Post
    ...actually, he's got a better list of example patrons than me. I might just steal that (kidding, of course).
    Feel free to use it.

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    Default Re: Warlock Patron: The Elder Wyrm [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by DracoKnight View Post
    It was originally called the Dragon Lord Patron back when I first wrote it last year. But then February of this year, I renamed it "Elder Wyrm." I don't care if you use the name, it's not like I own a trademark on it or anything. Just establishing a timeline so that there's no flaming that happens.

    Feel free to use it.
    Oh, well sorry for the misunderstanding there. I checked the creation date on the thread and it showed as being earlier this month, and I couldn't find a creation date on the Homebrewery document (but I'm not particularly adept at using the Homebrewery, either). Honestly I don't really care either way. If you'd rather call yours the Elder Wyrm, I can come up with something else for mine, or we can both go with Elder Wyrm.

    Edit: I did update my patron list, but I stayed away from Middle-Earth in favor of some other sources.
    Last edited by UristMcRandom; 2016-07-25 at 11:15 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by OctoberRaven View Post
    "It's a fireball. It's basically a magic hand grenade."
    My Homebrew

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    Default Re: Warlock Patron: The Elder Wyrm [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by UristMcRandom View Post
    Oh, well sorry for the misunderstanding there. I checked the creation date on the thread and it showed as being earlier this month, and I couldn't find a creation date on the Homebrewery document (but I'm not particularly adept at using the Homebrewery, either). Honestly I don't really care either way. If you'd rather call yours the Elder Wyrm, I can come up with something else for mine, or we can both go with Elder Wyrm.
    It says "2015-07-14". I don't care if you use Elder Wyrm, like I don't care at all. It's a cool name, and you thought it up too, separate of me - and great minds think alike, right? ^_^

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    Default Re: Warlock Patron: The Elder Wyrm [PEACH]

    Quote Originally Posted by DracoKnight View Post
    It says "2015-07-14". I don't care if you use Elder Wyrm, like I don't care at all. It's a cool name, and you thought it up too, separate of me - and great minds think alike, right? ^_^
    Huh, it's not 2015 anymore, is it?

    I'm probably going to rename mine. I've got an idea that maintains the cool factor without stepping on your toes, and that'll help avoid confusion (except for Twelvetrees. I feel bad for him keeping track of renaming stuff with his Homebrew Compendium).

    Update:
    • Adjusted list of example patrons
    • Re-named to "Elder Drake"
    Last edited by UristMcRandom; 2016-07-25 at 11:19 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by OctoberRaven View Post
    "It's a fireball. It's basically a magic hand grenade."
    My Homebrew

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