The LA-assignment thread

[Efrate]

You would almost have to go swordsage. You don't have the capabilities to get enough attacks that Sudden strike or sneak attack become relevant, your strength is good but not sure how power attack works with 1.5 strength natural weapons, you get delayed pounce in a way, so you can full attack every turn but the first, and you have no way to take advantage of your guaranteed surprise round and flat footed opponent from range.

Barring a sorcerer, cleric, or the like with transdimensional spell I guess. Still not a great chasis for either of those or the similar options.

[Inevitability]

Barring a sorcerer, cleric, or the like with transdimensional spell I guess. Still not a great chasis for either of those or the similar options.

Transdimensional Spell only works from the material to the transitives, not the other way around.

[Daedroth]

I agree with the +2 LA, +3 is too much.

[Inevitability]

Ettercap

Because between drow, driders and aranea, there weren't quite enough freakish pseudo-anarchids yet.

Ettercaps have five aberration HD (ouch), decent stats, a very small natural armor boost, a climb speed, a natural bite attack (with pretty nice poison) and two claw attacks (dealing an overwhelming 1d3 damage).

They can also throw webs, which is a reasonable save-or-suck for certain foes. Perhaps more interesting is their ability to create large sheets of webbing to walk on or as traps, but well, it's not like web-creation is exactly hard to get at ECL 5.

In the end, I just don't think a LA is needed, seeing a druid with Aberration Wildshape can turn into one at ECL 6 already (if you feel druid is an unfair comparison, use wildshape ranger instead). Even if that weren't the case, ettercaps would just be underwhelming. -0 LA.

Next are ettins!

[LordOfCain]

Ettins should be fun.

[Daedroth]

Ettins should be fun.

Yep, too many and crappy HD but too good TWF (Full attack, full damage, no feat tax, no dex needed, in any kind of armor...)

[Inevitability]

Ettin

How ironic: my last post as an ettin is about them.

Ettins are two-headed, brutish giants that apparently love bears (check out the organization line). They have 10 RHD (woo-hoo!) that are probably about as good as a cleric's. So what do they get instead of spells?

Firstly, there's the two-headedness. It's fairly irremarkable, except as a defense against the few effects that behead or debrain creatures.

Then there's the ability scores. High strength, high constitution, low intelligence and dexterity: an old pattern. There is, of course, the issue of these stats being available at lower costs.

Most useful (I'm using the term relatively here) is Superior Two-Weapon Fighting. Now, RAW it would only eliminate the penalties from using two weapons, but the stat block interestingly seems to imply an ettin can make two attacks with both weapons. For the sake of consistency and common sense, I'll chalk it up to a statblock error and go by the first interpretation.

Are ettins worth their HD? I doubt it, honestly. The three lost BAB already make up for a large part of their strength bonus (power attack, remember?), and two-weapon fighting is still bad strategy for several reasons. -0 LA is the only fair judgement here.

Next are fiendish creatures! I'm so excited because I totally haven't already rated an incredibly similar template!

[Flickerdart]

Multiheadedness has an extra use - if you have a breath weapon, each head breathes separately (per Savage Species). Dragonfire Adept Ettin might be decent.

[Troacctid]

Maybe for an NPC, where you're running off CR, but for a PC? No way is it worth 10 levels.

[Inevitability]

Multiheadedness has an extra use - if you have a breath weapon, each head breathes separately (per Savage Species). Dragonfire Adept Ettin might be decent.

So your breath weapon is effectively twice as strong, except you also gave up half of its progression by virtue of having 10 RHD? Sounds like a bad trade-off to me, especially when a Multiheaded creature can get the same for 'only' four wasted levels (probably less when I rate them).

[Daedroth]

For the sake of consistency and common sense, I'll chalk it up to a statblock error and go by the first interpretation.

If its a bad ability explanation (not uncommon with WotC) and we go with the second interpretation the LA changes?

[Inevitability]

Fiendish Creature

Rather than go into detail, I'll just briefly list the ways in which this template is different from celestial.

Firstly, it can be applied to oozes. Apart from this being a strange difference, it doesn't influence LA.

Secondly, fiendish creatures resist fire rather than acid and electricity. This is probably a slight boost, though not one big enough to alter LA.

Thirdly, they smite Good rather than Evil. The uneven distribution of monsters amongst alignments means this is slightly worse than its celestial counterpart, even in an Evil campaign.

Finally, and most obviously, Fiendish creatures are Evil rather than Good. That doesn't really matter, as both alignments have useful PrC's and feats.

It should be clear that none of these differences affect LA enough for it to change. +1 LA.

Next are formians, which I'm quite looking forward to.

[HolyDraconus]

But...but fiends.....edgy...

[Flickerdart]

But...but fiends.....edgy...

OW the EDGE (Su): You are so edgy, any weapon you wield automatically becomes +1 keen.

[digiman619]

OW the EDGE (Su): You are so edgy, any weapon you wield automatically becomes +1 keen.

But what if it's a +3 mace?

[Long_shanks]

But what if it's a +3 mace?

The edginess is so high that it transcends magic: +1 keen mace it is.

[No brains]

But what if it's a +3 mace?

The edginess is so high that it transcends magic: +1 keen mace it is.

Flanged maces are 2edgy4me, even in plate.

[danielxcutter]

But what if it's a +3 mace?

A wizard did it.

[Inevitability]

But what if it's a +3 mace?

[Long_shanks]

Oh, well done, Dire_Stirge, well done. That's a blast from the past

[remetagross]

I usually play Munchkin in French and only recently in English. I have (re)discovered much of the D&D snarl, unfortunately lost in translation. Bonus Feats, +1 pair of boots allowed, humans only? 11-foot poles? :D

[The_Iron_Lord]

Notice how the cleric is holding the mace in two hands.

Isn't it supposed to be one-handed?

[Inevitability]

Formian Worker

The worker has a chassis that's not too surprising for an outsider. Boosts to a few physical skills, immunity to some energy types/conditions and resistance to others, an alignment subtype and a single (weak) natural attack.

Then there's a formian's supernatural abilities, which are sadly better suited to a monster than a PC. Hive Mind will basically only be useful in a 50-mile radius on a single outer plane (and even then it's not too great) and Cure Serious Wounds requires seven other workers. I guess a party of four workers that all pick Improved Familiar (Formian Worker) could pull it off, but that's an awful amount of resources to get free healing. Make Whole is much the same, though I guess only two more workers are somewhat easier to gather.

To make things worse, formians cannot speak or wield weapons (a fact explicitly spelled out in their description), which means casters have to pay a feat tax and martials need to spend money on Mouthpick stuff. I guess you could play a warlock, but that means... well, being a warlock.

All things considered, I think +1 LA is enough. While a worker may have several strengths not easily obtainable at ECL 2, its weaknesses make actually contributing to a party hard.

[Inevitability]

Formian Warrior

The second-weakest Lawful anttaur is the warrior. I'm fairly sure these still can't use weapons: just look at the croissant-like lobster claws they have in their official picture. The description confirms they can't speak either.

Warriors are Medium, with good physical stats and average (or above-average) mental ones. They're just as quick as workers, have many of the same immunities in addition to SR (pretty good SR, too), and, most importantly, four natural weapons. The bite is not much (Mouthpick it is), but the claws and sting are okay. Warriors also inject a strength-damaging poison with each sting attack. Sadly, it won't do much in combat.

You see, there's basically two ways to use poison in D&D. One can use poison that damages a foe's low stats, in hopes of reducing those to 0 (thereby practically guaranteeing victory), or one can use poison that damages a foe's important stats, debuffing said foe's important abilities. A warrior's weak strength-damaging poison, however, is bad at both. It's too weak to instantaneously knock out foes, while anything with high strength will typically also have high fortitude saves.

So are four outsider HD worth everything a worker could've gotten you, plus SR, better abilities, and extra natural weapons? I'm tending towards 'no'. +0 LA, though I understand if people disagree here.

[Daedroth]

The second-weakest Lawful anttaur is the warrior. I'm fairly sure these still can't use weapons: just look at the croissant-like lobster claws they have in their official picture. The description confirms they can't speak either.

Picture of MMI


Are you sure?

[Thurbane]

Notice how the cleric is holding the mace in two hands.

Isn't it supposed to be one-handed?

1.5x STR bonus and 2x Power Attack (assuming heavy mace).

[No brains]

Picture of MMI


Are you sure?

I think the dude with the helm is a myrmarch, which is coming up next. 'croissant claws' the warrior is in back.

[Flickerdart]

I think the dude with the helm is a myrmarch, which is coming up next. 'croissant claws' the warrior is in back.

Myrmachs are Large, and the spear-wielding warrior is no larger than the soldier behind him (when accounting for perspective). Then again, myrmachs are the only ones listed with javelins.

I would say that art != rules, so all we have to go on is the text. Unlike the workers, who are explicitly said to have hands unsuitable for fighting, soldiers have no specific rule barring them from wielding weapons.

I'm really looking forward to discussing the Queen - 17th level Sorcerer casting is nothing to sneer at, even if it comes at the cost of 20 HD and losing all your movement and attacks. Do the extra goodies outweigh the advantages of a Sorcerer 20? I think they don't, unless you want to abuse 50 mile telepathy somehow, but we'll see.

[Inevitability]

Picture of MMI


Are you sure?

As No brains pointed out, the front formian is a Myrmarch while the other is a warrior. I suggest checking the actual Monster Manual: it's got names next to the pictures.

[Strigon]

Do the extra goodies outweigh the advantages of a Sorcerer 20? I think they don't, unless you want to abuse 50 mile telepathy somehow, but we'll see.

I'm no great optimizer, but as a full caster of ECL 20, isn't telepathy a bit... dated?