Duskblade Spells

[skywalker]

I have a question, I am currently playing a duskblade, and I was wondering, since the duskblade has swift versions of fly, exp. retreat, and invis. on the spell list, would he also be able to cast the normal versions of those spells(from scrolls, wands, etc). I do not have the spell compendium, but according to PHB2, the swift versions are EXACTLY the same, except they take a swift action and only last a round.

So, could a Duskblade cast the normal version of those three spells from a scroll or wand without a UMD check(In this case, a charisma check, since UMD is not a class skill)?

[TheOOB]

Nope, if you don't have a spell on your spell list, you cannot use spell compleation or spell trigger (wands, scrolls, staves, ect) for that spell, otherwise a paladin could use staves of greater restoration and such.

[Breaon]

That would require your DM adjudicating, since they are techinically different spells (casting time is a component of a spell's makeup.) As a DM, I would probably allow for it, for the spells which are shared amongst the spell lists, but it would be a standard action and not swift. And turn you blue for a round just for good measure.

[skywalker]

That would require your DM adjudicating, since they are techinically different spells (casting time is a component of a spell's makeup.) As a DM, I would probably allow for it, for the spells which are shared amongst the spell lists, but it would be a standard action and not swift. And turn you blue for a round just for good measure.

Well, I was clearly thinking it would be a standard action, because it would last longer.
What if I don't want to turn blue? Do I have to stick my tongue out like that, too?

[Person_Man]

No, you cannot. They are different spells. They only have the same effect, except for the duration (1 round) and casting time (Swift action).

Also, the only reason why the Duskblade and Beguiler are remotely balanced is that they have such limited spell lists, and the authors have promised not to expand them. This came after a lot of loud and annoyed complaining about codex creep on the WotC boards.

I would suggest taking the Able Learner feat (all Skills cost 1 point to invest in, Max ranks of cross class Skills unchanged, Races of Destiny) and take ranks in Use Magic Device.

[MeklorIlavator]

Though, if you ask real nice, a DM may let you trade spells out on a 1-for-1 basis, similar to what is suggested in the Spell Compenduim for warmages.

[Matthew]

Can the Dusk Blade not research Spells like other Spell Casters? As far as I know, they can, but that would no doubt be be part of the campaign development.

[Fax Celestis]

Can the Dusk Blade not research Spells like other Spell Casters? As far as I know, they can, but that would no doubt be be part of the campaign development.

They cannot. If you look in the "Spells" heading of the Duskblade class, there is no paragraph pertaining to researching spells.

[Merlin the Tuna]

Though, if you ask real nice, a DM may let you trade spells out on a 1-for-1 basis, similar to what is suggested in the Spell Compenduim for warblades.

That's warmages, good sir.

[Matthew]

They cannot. If you look in the "Spells" heading of the Duskblade class, there is no paragraph pertaining to researching spells.

Sure, but there is nothing saying Clerics can in their entry either, but the DMG (3.0 version mind) seems to think that they can. I could be missing something important, though? [Edit] Maybe I'm looking at the wrong bit, but the Wizard entry doesn't state that they can research new Spells either.

[MeklorIlavator]

Sure, but there is nothing saying Clerics can in their entry either, but the DMG (3.0 version mind) seems to think that they can. I could be missing something important, though? [Edit] Maybe I'm looking at the wrong bit, but the Wizard entry doesn't state that they can research new Spells either.

Researching new spells is in the DMG, and the process involves XP, gold, and time plus is ill defined.

Oh, and thanks Merlin the Tuna, fixed. Must have had Tome of Battle on the brain that day.

[Jack Mann]

The DMG addresses this on page 198. Any kind of spellcaster can research new spells.

[Matthew]

So... nothing stopping Dusk Blades researching new Spells, then?

[Jack Mann]

Only the restraint of their DM.

[Matthew]

Thought so, thanks for clearing that up.

[TheOOB]

The ever growing spell list of most casters is one of the many reasons spell casters are so overpowered. No only did they have little balance to begin with, but every supplment adds at least a few spells that the caster can take, an unlike feats or other special abilities, a preperation caster doesn't need to lose anything to take the new spell.

Thus, you should be fairly strict on what new spells you let the duskblade have.

[ImperiousLeader]

It should be pointed out that there is a precedent for adding spells to the Duskblade spell list, the latest Eberron book "Forge of War" adds some new spells for Duskblades.

I don't see much of a problem adding spells to their spell list, a duskblade must still choose only a few of them to form his known spells.

[skywalker]

It should be pointed out that there is a precedent for adding spells to the Duskblade spell list, the latest Eberron book "Forge of War" adds some new spells for Duskblades.

I don't see much of a problem adding spells to their spell list, a duskblade must still choose only a few of them to form his known spells.

But it does add to the amount of spells he can cast from scrolls, wands, etc.

[TheOOB]

Adding spells isn't a problum itself, so long as you gauge the power of a spell and see how powerful it is.

Now heres a question, if a duskblade creates a wand of polar ray (posible because its a 5th level spell for them), could a wizard use it?

[I_Got_This_Name]

Adding spells isn't a problum itself, so long as you gauge the power of a spell and see how powerful it is.

Now heres a question, if a duskblade creates a wand of polar ray (posible because its a 5th level spell for them), could a wizard use it?

Wands only go up to 4th, IIRC.

Otherwise, yes. Scrolls too, I think; all that matters is that the spell is on your spell list, not its level. For scrolls, type has to match too, and it does (arcane).

[Xan]

I think I'm missing something. I've been looking at the Duskblade spell list in the PHBII, and it doesn't have some of the spells that have been referenced in this thread. For that matter, it has a pitifully few number of spells, and almost no touch spells, which I thought was part of the point of the Duskblade. Is there another list that I'm missing?

[Jack Mann]

Page 24, not 98. This bit of poor editing has caused many people headaches.

[Charity]

I think I'm missing something. I've been looking at the Duskblade spell list in the PHBII, and it doesn't have some of the spells that have been referenced in this thread. For that matter, it has a pitifully few number of spells, and almost no touch spells, which I thought was part of the point of the Duskblade. Is there another list that I'm missing?

Yup you are missing the bottom left of page 24 mate... don't feal bad I had to ask too.

Edit - darn those owls with their crazy spot bonuses.

[Xan]

Wow, that makes such a difference. Thanks for the help. I also have the Spell Compendium, and I was wondering what spells were reasonable to add to the list. Would it still be balanced to add anything that is an offensive touch or a self-buffing spells? Are there any spells that definately should not be added?

[Fax Celestis]

Wow, that makes such a difference. Thanks for the help. I also have the Spell Compendium, and I was wondering what spells were reasonable to add to the list. Would it still be balanced to add anything that is an offensive touch or a self-buffing spells? Are there any spells that definately should not be added?

Try this thread.

[TheOOB]

Do you all think its balanced to let a duskblade arcane channel ranged touch attacks?

[Merlin the Tuna]

Do you all think its balanced to let a duskblade arcane channel ranged touch attacks?

Probably. Ranged touch attacks are usually (or at least should usually) be weaker than melee touch attacks, as they're cast from relatively safer locations using a preferential stat (Dex vs. Str) and have to penetrate the same defenses. The only pitfall here is that a greater percentage of ranged touch spells are debuffs than is the case for melee touch spells. As the Duskblade is primarily a melee damage dealer, granting him the use of non-damaging spells is not recommended.

[Isomenes]

Probably. Ranged touch attacks are usually (or at least should usually) be weaker than melee touch attacks, as they're cast from relatively safer locations using a preferential stat (Dex vs. Str) and have to penetrate the same defenses. The only pitfall here is that a greater percentage of ranged touch spells are debuffs than is the case for melee touch spells. As the Duskblade is primarily a melee damage dealer, granting him the use of non-damaging spells is not recommended.

My DM balanced it (at least partially) by requiring Reach Spell to be used in conjunction with channeling ranged touch, and like Reach Spell, they were only good within 30 feet. This is worth considering.

[Jack Mann]

...You're using melee attacks to deliver them. I mean, unless you use every trick in the books to increase your reach, you're not typically hitting anything further than 20' away (enlarged with a reach weapon).

[Dhavaer]

Full attacking with a channeled disintegrate sounds a little iffy to me.