Forgotten Realms: Mulhorandi Slavery and Lawful Goodness

[Miraqariftsky]

Hail to ye august forummers!

I shall get straigh to the point: Some Mulhorandi deities are LG, and doubtless more than some of the populace are good, if not LG outright... but then, how is this reconciled with the fact of Mulhorandi slavery and esclavagism?

How can you be Good and yet keep slaves without having an upset conscience?

[GoblinJTHM]

the slaves are horrible criminals sentenced to life

[SITB]

You give the slaves casual sundays, maiming mondays and a dental plan?

Eh, lawful good does not mean total freedom and as such it's quite easy to have a lawful good society with slaves. They just have to treat them as second class citizen rather then property (See Discworld Ephebe).

[Tallis]

Dieties can take much more of a long view. Goodness can be much less personal to them. They may be more concerned with the well being of the society as a whole than they are with any individual. How does having slavery now affect the sociaty 1000 years from now? America (along with most other countries I can think of) had slavery. Was it a good thing? Of course not. Are we better off now because we had cheap labor to build our country? Yes, we probably are. A diety may very well be seeing things from a very different point of view than the people involved in the situation.
On the other hand the diety could be working against slavery, just in more subtle ways. Maybe slowly turning the hearts of people against it. Bolstering the slaves confidence and hellping them escape. Knowing that these things will snowball and eventually slavery will be abolished. Again, this is an immortal being from anther plane of existence. He/she/it can take the long view and think about the future rather than the now.
As far as the mortal side: If slavery is an ingrained lawfulpart of society then a person may just accept it. A LG person in that society may work to ensure that slaves are treated well, or try to change the laws. Or they may accept it as a necessary evil. Taking away alarge slave population suddenly could (and probably would) result in a financial collapse. Someone thinking it through might decide to work for slow reforms rather than revolution. Others could set up an "underground railroad" helping escaped slaves get to free countries. Others might very well try to start a slave revolt, but most won't have the courage to do something that extreme. Aside from the potential for personal loss, a slave revolt would most certainly result in the deaths of many of the slaves and many neutral bystanders. So what is the greater evil? Slavery or civil war? Not everyone will agree.
There really is a lot more to think about than just, is slavery right or wrong. Most LG people will probably consider it better to work within the system towards reform, that to start a fight that would cost many lives.

[Miraqariftsky]

Wow. Thousand thanks, y'all.

[Tallis]

no problem, hope we helped.

[Damionte]

Another angle is that slavery may not be considered evil. Simply another reality of normal life. Hell even in the real world slavery was only really considered evil and criminal over the past century and a half or so.

The previous few thouhsand years slavery was an integral way of life. slaves were inferiors. It was thier lot in life to be a slave and many were considered lucky to even get to be a slave at that rather than dead. Many probably felt they were granting the greatest benifit to thier slave as those people would have had no where else to turn had they not been enslaved.

In other words, what is evil in one society may not be evil in all. Kind of like sodomy laws in the US. Some states and institutions outlaw it and have harsh penalties. While other states seem to embrace it.

[Miles Invictus]

Isn't D&D morality objective, though?

[PaladinBoy]

Another angle is that slavery may not be considered evil. Simply another reality of normal life. Hell even in the real world slavery was only really considered evil and criminal over the past century and a half or so.

As the above poster said, D+D has objective morality. Even if society as a whole does not consider slavery to be evil, that does not change whether or not it is evil.

Of course, the PHB has little enough to say on morality. Even its interpretation supports slavery being evil, though. If we resort to the the BoED, then we learn that slavery is evil, whether or not society supports it.

[Inyssius Tor]

Then again, some "evil" things in the BO*D are... sketchy. Masochism? Cannibalism? Self-mutilation? WTF?

EDIT: That's not to say that slavery isn't capital-E Evil. It is. I'm just saying that it is not entirely inconceivable that, in a Fantasy setting, it could be something other than evil. See the already-mentioned Ephebe for an example.

[Nerd-o-rama]

I'm not an FR buff, but I was under the impression that Mulhorandi slaves were criminals serving hard labor sentences. This is as opposed to the slaves in Thay (a Lawful Evil nation) who are thus due to being POWs or a member of Thay's non-mage, non-human population.

[Jayabalard]

As the above poster said, D+D has objective morality. Even if society as a whole does not consider slavery to be evil, that does not change whether or not it is evil.

The term "slavery", includes lots of things, not all of which are evil. Just because they fall under the same general label does not mean that they are morally the same thing.

A slave-by-capture is a very different thing than a slave-by-choice (self indentured servant) or a slave-by-law (convicted criminal).

[Miraqariftsky]

I'm not an FR buff, but I was under the impression that Mulhorandi slaves were criminals serving hard labor sentences. This is as opposed to the slaves in Thay (a Lawful Evil nation) who are thus due to being POWs or a member of Thay's non-mage, non-human population.

Aha, thousand thanks yet again.

[PaladinBoy]

I'm not an FR buff, but I was under the impression that Mulhorandi slaves were criminals serving hard labor sentences. This is as opposed to the slaves in Thay (a Lawful Evil nation) who are thus due to being POWs or a member of Thay's non-mage, non-human population.

Ah. I didn't know that. Yes, that type of hard labor criminal punsihment is probably acceptable.

[Xuincherguixe]

Arbitrary morality strikes again!

[Zim]

My D&D group plays many campaigns in the Unapproachable East (or is it just the Emotionally Distant East?) and we've had a lot of fun arguing this point over the years. Best we can do is:
1.(In Mulhorand) Slaves are convicted felons and individuals who need to be punished for their transgressions. They have violated the Maat (holy laws of law and good) and are being punished in accordance to the severity of their crimes/sins. Since this punishment is meted out by a religious authority (who is also the legal one too), it is holy labour, and therefore blessed by Horus-Re and a state of divine servitude.
2. The Church of Horus-Re oversees the administration of slave-related activities in accordance with the Maat. The slaves themselves are the divine property of HR himself. People lease out the services of these slaves to better their own holdings (thus strengthening the realm -which is a sacred duty) to aid the church in making sure the holy labours are carried out. This makes slave owning not only moral, but a pious act.
3. The treatment of slaves is governed by the Maat. They are the holy property of HR, and not to be abused disproportionately to their sentence. You don't want to break the property of your god, do you? This ensures the just treatment of slaves is not only a moral issue, but a religious one.

Mulhorand is in a similar position to the Atredies Dynasty in Dune. You have an immortal head of state (Horus-Re or his incarnation) and a theocratic administration based on his edicts. In a society where the ruler is also the religion, it works well to make church and state one as well. Laws become religious commandments and lawbreakers also become sinners. In this case, slaves are sinners in the act of earning redemption and slave owners are doing their civic and holy duty by owning slaves. All very LG and above board.

Hope I didn't ramble or seem like an @$$ there.