Are there any systems that can handle very differently sized races?

[Grim Portent]

I was wondering if anyone could recommend me a system that has robust rules for dealing with different characters with very large differences in size and durability?

I want to run a short game in a setting from my favorite childhood book series, but there's a huge variety of differently sized races that are very much standard for the setting, ranging from the size of Dobby from Harry Potter up to the size of a very large polar bear, and I don't know of any systems that can really handle the differences inherent in such races as PCs properly. Because of the way the setting works (it's the Edge Chronicles setting for reference) I don't want to restrict players to the human sized races when there's a lot of interesting races that are either much smaller and weaker or larger and stronger than humans.

I don't think D&D would handle it very well, for a number of reasons, and the other systems I'm familiar with never seemed to consider the idea of PCs of vastly different sizes or only paid a small amount of attention to it.

[Necroticplague]

GURPS is good enough at this. While it assumes human-sized as a baseline, one could simply use Advantages that represent small size as part of the racial packages. JAGS Wonderland also has some good rules for vastly different sized players (since its based off of Alice in wonderland), but he mechanics are a bit tied to the setting for a simple lift to work.

[Airk]

What sort of "handling" do you think this needs? Honestly, that doesn't seem like a particularly perilous size range to me. It's not like you are dealing with 6" tall fairies and 50' giants or something.

What do you feel the game needs to do in order to "handle" these differences that cannot just be addressed with the game fiction? Obviously, you need a game that can somehow represent unusual extremes of strength, but even D&D can do that. Other than strength, what does size mean? It means you are heavier, usually, but the weight of a character is seldom relevant. It also just means you are bigger, but you probably don't need rules for "can your character fit in this tunnel".

So what are you looking for?

[Grim Portent]

I suppose I'm looking for a system that tackles the differences in durability, strength, visiblity between different sizes and within the same sizes in a robust fashion.

In further detail I'm interested in systems in which it is all but impossible for the smallest race to harm the largest race unless it specifically strikes at the most vulnerable points, like arteries and eyes, because even in the setting a race the size of a large fruit bat isn't going to hurt any of the more robust races without specifically targeting soft tissues. Something with a damage reduction system based on both toughness and size but which is also entirely bypassable by crits or carefully aimed attacks.

At the same time I'd like to see visibility not function in a simplistically linear fashion, but possibly in an exponential way, so each size category is a large step in difference when something is trying to sneak, but also that leaves room for individual races of similar size to be more or less stealthy intrinsically.



The reason I feel a D&D system or similar wouldn't work is that too many mechanics are tied up in the same stats that don't correlate to the way the races are depicted in the books I want to emulate the feel of, not to mention having various unrelated mechanics that would heavily contradict the intended feel, like the class system and HP system. For example, the stealthiest races in the setting are not particularly agile or dexterous when compared to the other races of similar size, but those other races have next to no knack for sneaking despite being very good at things involving skill with their hands. In D&D it would be very hard to represent this properly because of how the stats work without a lot of numbers bloat that makes the races very kludgy, for lack of a better word, especially because of how many there are. Similarly the best races at fighting are not the strongest or most agile, but because of how D&D handles combat the strength, agility and size modifiers that would be possessed by some of the largest races would make them better at fighting than the warlike races.

[Airk]

I suppose I'm looking for a system that tackles the differences in durability, strength, visiblity between different sizes and within the same sizes in a robust fashion.

Well, as pointed out, strength is easy. Everything handles lots of strength. Durability is interesting, but I'm not convinced it's as size-correlated as you think, since in a fantasy realm, small things can be really hard to hurt, and big things can easily be slain by appropriate weaponry. I don't tend to play systems with heavy focus on "here's how you have to kill this thing" though, so YMMV.

In further detail I'm interested in systems in which it is all but impossible for the smallest race to harm the largest race unless it specifically strikes at the most vulnerable points, like arteries and eyes, because even in the setting a race the size of a large fruit bat isn't going to hurt any of the more robust races without specifically targeting soft tissues.

This is pretty much how fighting works though. No one just kinda slashes at their opponent and hopes for the best? And I'd tend to think that the relative difficulty reaching vulnerable points would be offset by the relative differences in mobility.

Something with a damage reduction system based on both toughness and size but which is also entirely bypassable by crits or carefully aimed attacks.

The trouble with a system like this is that you usually just end up with all attacks being "carefully aimed" because otherwise, there's no point. So you might as well just give the smaller races a penalty to hit... but then they probably have a bonus to defense, and then you realize that "You need to roll a 16 on d20+4" is an awful lot like "You need to roll an 8 on d20-4" and you start wondering why you've bothered.

I'm not saying it's insurmountable, but it's tricky. And I think the emphasis on "this needs to be about size" remains a bit of a red herring. Though you're doing a really good job of explaining what you're looking for here, so I feel kindof bad saying "I don't really know any games that do that, because I've mostly stopped playing complicated physics simulator type games."

At the same time I'd like to see visibility not function in a simplistically linear fashion, but possibly in an exponential way, so each size category is a large step in difference when something is trying to sneak, but also that leaves room for individual races of similar size to be more or less stealthy intrinsically.

I feel like you are probably going to discover that either you end up with large races basically not being able to sneak at all, or with the differences between small races not being very relevant.

The reason I feel a D&D system or similar wouldn't work is that too many mechanics are tied up in the same stats that don't correlate to the way the races are depicted in the books I want to emulate the feel of, not to mention having various unrelated mechanics that would heavily contradict the intended feel, like the class system and HP system. For example, the stealthiest races in the setting are not particularly agile or dexterous when compared to the other races of similar size, but those other races have next to no knack for sneaking despite being very good at things involving skill with their hands. In D&D it would be very hard to represent this properly because of how the stats work without a lot of numbers bloat that makes the races very kludgy, for lack of a better word, especially because of how many there are. Similarly the best races at fighting are not the strongest or most agile, but because of how D&D handles combat the strength, agility and size modifiers that would be possessed by some of the largest races would make them better at fighting than the warlike races.

Cool. It sounds like you've got a handle on what you need, so maybe someone else can step in with a more crunchy game suggestion.

Or I could just head it all off and say "Someone's going to tell you to run it in GURPS."

[Grim Portent]

Well with two suggestions for GURPS I'll give it a look and see if I can do what I'm wanting to do with it.

Thanks guys.

[PrincessCupcake]

Savage Worlds does a pretty good job of it, honestly. We ran a party whose sizes ran from two foot tall mushroom person to a Centaur. It worked out just fine, and nobody felt unbalanced.

[mikeejimbo]

+1 for GURPS. It can handle things from the 6" pixie to the 50' giant and beyond, in either direction.

[Airk]

Savage Worlds does a pretty good job of it, honestly. We ran a party whose sizes ran from two foot tall mushroom person to a Centaur. It worked out just fine, and nobody felt unbalanced.

This is very, VERY different from what the OP is asking for.

[Segev]

BESM 3e is a good one to look at, as well. It's lighter than GURPS, mechanically, but shares its flexible points-based generation. It also, in my opinion, does less-gritty, higher-fantasy better. As well as softer sci-fi. GURPS is better the grittier you want things.