My attack bonus?

[Counterpower]

Well, this afternoon I went out and did some archery practice. Now, the D&D system really doesn't translate into real life that well, but I still think I'm going to take my results and look at my attack bonus.

Alright. I hit a stationary Small target (AC 6) with 62 out of 100 shots, or approximately a 60% hit rate. (I rounded it to the nearest 5% to facilitate translation to a d20.) On a d20, I have a 60% chance of rolling a 9 or higher. So, a 9 plus my total ranged attack bonus has to be 6, and my total ranged AB is -3. Now, there are two possible choices here, since I'm not really sure if D&D has a definition for "proficiency" beyond "you have the feat." I'm going to do this both ways.

If I am proficient with the bow I was using, then I take no penalty. I don't believe I was far enough away from the target to impose a range increment penalty, although I don't know exactly how far away I was. Thus, the combination of my BAB and my Dexterity modifier has to be -3. That means my Dex is no higher than 5, and could be lower depending on how many levels I have. I think I'm probably an expert, since commoners don't get Knowledge skills, and I'm reasonably intelligent. Thus, for every level in expert, my Dex decreases by two points, and I can't have more than 3 levels in expert because if I had the 4th, my Dex would have to be -1, which is impossible. Most likely scenario if I am proficient: expert 1, Dex 5. Not too appetizing.

If I'm not proficient, then I take a -4 penalty to my attacks. No range increment penalty, just like the other scenario. In this case, the combination of my Dex and my BAB has to be +1. Thus, my Dex could be as high as 13, if I had only one level of expert. I actually think that I'm probably still 1st level, due to the amount of experience I've probably gained. (Let's see, how much EXP is a hard test worth........) Most likely: expert 1, Dex 12-13. Also possible is expert 2, Dex 10-11. The second has it's advantages, as well.... I really don't think my Dex is all that exceptional, so average Dex may be a better fit.

Thoughts? Comments? Mistakes in my math? Your own conclusions about your abilities?

[Dhavaer]

How far away was the target? d20 Modern bows have a much shorter range than D&D ones.

[SadisticFishing]

What size was the target exactly?

[Counterpower]

Sorry, Dhavaer, but I forgot to measure the range. I can do that tomorrow, but it's kind of dark outside now. What is the range increment on a d20 modern bow, out of curiosity?

SadisticFishing: a stationary, Small sized target.

[Dhavaer]

Sorry, Dhavaer, but I forgot to measure the range. I can do that tomorrow, but it's kind of dark outside now. What is the range increment on a d20 modern bow, out of curiosity?

SadisticFishing: a stationary, Small sized target.

40ft.

I think SadisticFishing wanted to know the size in inches/centimetres, btw.

[SadisticFishing]

Small as in the size of a halfling? Like ... less than 5 feet tall, and even thinner than that?

I think the problem is the size modifiers are not realistic. Try hitting a Medium or Large target, and try again :P

[Dhavaer]

Small as in the size of a halfling? Like ... less than 5 feet tall, and even thinner than that?

Small would be less than 4ft.

[Counterpower]

Oh, my apologies for the misconception. The target's no more than 3ft tall, and...... maybe a foot wide? Foot and a half? I'm horrible at judging distances with my eyes alone. Though, if the range increment for d20 modern weaponry is only 40ft, I might have been on the outer edge of that. So there might be a range increment penalty. I'll make all of these measurements when I have the chance, tomorrow.

[Seffbasilisk]

Perhaps you have the flaw "Shakey"? -2 to ranged attacks? Or a similar flaw?

[Dhavaer]

Oh, my apologies for the misconception. The target's no more than 3ft tall, and...... maybe a foot wide? Foot and a half?

That's going to be on the edge of Small/Tiny, then. A +1 attack bonus seems completely reasonable to me, though.

[SadisticFishing]

... +5% chance to hit, going from 3 by 1.5 to 6 by 3.5? There's something wrong with the D&D system on this, heh.

[ByeLindgren]

On the statistical side of things, you may not have enough data to have a small margin of error. Your attack bonus ideas could be completely changed if tomorrow (or, rather, over the next 100 shots) you shoot much better or worse.

That, and, well, you know. The whole 'it doesn't model reality' thing.

[Miles Invictus]

I think you're either nonproficient, with a slightly higher-than-average Dexterity (12-13), or you are proficient, but you're also Shaky and you have a slightly lower-than-average Dexterity (8-9). Both fit the figures.

How long have you been practicing with the bow?

[Overlord]

Did somebody sneak up behind you and cast bane on you while you were not looking?

You should carry around more wands of true strike.

[Dan_Hemmens]

To contrast, work out your ability to land a punch on somebody completely unarmed, unarmoured and unsuspecting.

BAB makes some things stupidly hard and some things stupidly easy.

[Cyborg Pirate]

With a crossbow, I will hit a half foot diameter target at 40ft 50 times out of 50 in a single shooting session.

Throwing a baseball, I am lucky to hit the same target 5 times out of 50 in a single throwing session.


What does this mean for my BaB and stats?

[Dan_Hemmens]

With a crossbow, I will hit a half foot diameter target at 40ft 50 times out of 50 in a single shooting session.

Throwing a baseball, I am lucky to hit the same target 5 times out of 50 in a single throwing session.


What does this mean for my BaB and stats?

It means that the range increment on a Baseball is really small.

[Cyborg Pirate]

It means that the range increment on a Baseball is really small.

Hmmm... What are the range increments on thrown weapons in DnD actually (can't find them in the SRD at the moment)? For me, this inability to throw applies to more then just baseballs

[AtomicKitKat]

You might need to exclude those shots that "hit" but didn't actually land on the mark(ie, beyond the outermost rings on a dartboard, where the numbers are, rather than anywhere you can score)

[Indon]

With a crossbow, I will hit a half foot diameter target at 40ft 50 times out of 50 in a single shooting session.

Throwing a baseball, I am lucky to hit the same target 5 times out of 50 in a single throwing session.


What does this mean for my BaB and stats?

You're proficient with Crossbows (maybe even with a weapon focus feat, if you practice enough with it), but unproficient with baseballs, in addition to the different range increments.

[bugsysservant]

To further contrast: I can hit a small dot (AC 13. -5 for no dex, +8 for fine) with my fist 100% of the time. Even counting the +4 I get to hit, that still makes me bab +8 (at least). Also I clearly have no chance for critical failure, so I must treat all ones as if they had a chance to hit. The only things I know that do that are deities, so while you all may be high level, I am a GOD!

edit: forgot to mention-I can hit much more rapidly than one punch every six seconds, so I'm not lining up a coup de gras to atuo hit. If anything I am getting multiple attacks per round, making me either a monk, or a higher level character.

[Indon]

To further contrast: I can hit a small dot (AC 13. -5 for no dex, +8 for fine) with my fist 100% of the time. Even counting the +4 I get to hit, that still makes me bab +8 (at least). Also I clearly have no chance for critical failure, so I must treat all ones as if they had a chance to hit. The only things I know that do that are deities, so while you all may be high level, I am a GOD!

Maybe you just have a proliferation of luck-feat-type abilities?

[Cyborg Pirate]

You might need to exclude those shots that "hit" but didn't actually land on the mark(ie, beyond the outermost rings on a dartboard, where the numbers are, rather than anywhere you can score)

It wasn't anything like a normal target. It was actually just a heavy rubber ball with a quarter-inch circle pasted on it to make a center for me to aim at. I hit the ball all the time, and the circle itself about 2 times out of 5.

When making snap-shots, I hit the circle 0 times, but never missed the ball. Idem when shooting the crossbow one-handed (just for fun, I know a crossbow isn't supposed to be used that way)

You're proficient with Crossbows (maybe even with a weapon focus feat, if you practice enough with it), but unproficient with baseballs, in addition to the different range increments.

Is it possible to be proficient in crossbows while not proficient with throwing weapons? I thought that in 3.5 they all came in a single package. (I ought to go have another look at the SRD)

No weapon focus feat tho. I did that on the day after I bought the crossbow. On the day I bought the crossbow itself, I only shot enough times to adjust the sights for a proper distance, and before I bought it, I never shot a crossbow before. Nor have I ever fired a regular gun before.

[brian c]

A baseball should be a "simple weapon" so nearly everyone is proficient. Probably a range increment of about 20ft though, so that's your problem. Major League pitchers have Weapon Focus (Baseball) and Far Shot, at least.


@Dan_Hemmens: When you punch someone unarmored and unsuspecting, you're using your attack roll at d20+1 or d20+2, probably, against base AC of 10, so you have about a 55% or 60% chance to do damage. A "miss" can also be interpreted as a glancing blow that doesn't do any real damage. Alternatively, if you really are right behind someone and they don't notice you at all, you're definitely going to be able to do some subdual damage but in that case it's more like a coup de grace.

[Lòkki Gallansbayne]

Is it possible to be proficient in crossbows while not proficient with throwing weapons? I thought that in 3.5 they all came in a single package. (I ought to go have another look at the SRD)

It is if you're a commoner. They get proficiency with just one simple weapon. Alternatively, your DM may be using the weapon groups variant, but since who he is and whether or not he exists changes depending on your religion and philosophy, good luck getting a straight answer out of him.

[Counterpower]

Well, I did say I was horrible at judging distances with my eyes. The target I was shooting at was actually about 2' by 1'. Would that mean it was Tiny, instead of Small, and thus recieve a +2 to AC?

Cyborg Pirate: I'm not sure if you can be proficient in one but not the other, by D&D rules.... Certainly in reality you can probably be proficient with one, but not the other. And I believe all ranged weapons have a range increment of 10ft. That, and you were using a crossbow sight? That probably gives a bonus on the attack roll.....

[Counterpower]

ByeLindgren: Yeah, I'm not really sure either if I have enough of a sample. I really should go find my old statistics notes and see if I can find out.

Miles Invictus: I almost hope I'm not Shaky, because I like ranged attacks! I prefer using a bow or a rifle to a sword or a fist. Still, you're right. Both of those do fit the data provided. As for my time with the bow....... crap, I forget. At least a year, I think. That said though, I haven't been regularly practicing either.

[Cyborg Pirate]

It is if you're a commoner. They get proficiency with just one simple weapon.

hmmm... But I know I also have exotic weapon proficiency as I'm more then capable of wielding a katana (which in dnd is essentially a bastardsword) efficiently both one and two-handed, as well as being capable of effectively wielding various polearms.

Oh, which reminds me. According to DnD, I also have Spring-Attack, which means I must have also taken Dodge and Mobility.

That's way too much feats for one commoner, and I know I'm not superhuman

That, and you were using a crossbow sight? That probably gives a bonus on the attack roll.....

Oh yeah, good call, hadn't thought of that.

[tobian]

Oh dear, I think a catgirl lost her life in this thread.

You all should know better than to try and translate DnD into/from real world physics and probability.

SHAMEFUL!

Though, the math thus far looks accurate.

But, what if the bow was cursed?

[bugsysservant]

Maybe you just have a proliferation of luck-feat-type abilities?

Nope, definitely a god. I am confident that I could continue doing that all day, and never miss, so either I am a god, or I have an insanely high level and number of luck prestige classes. Plus, I've always had a sneaking suspicion that the world revolved around me. I finally know why: I'm the one whose turning it!