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2007-07-03, 01:03 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Feb 2006
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- Manila, PH
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Not called GREAT Club for nothing
1 Power Attack
1 Cleave
2 Improved Bull Rush
3 Weapon Focus (Great Club)
4 Three Mountains
6 Brutal Strike
6 ShockTrooper
8 Leap Attack
9 Combat Expertise
10 Improved Trip
12 Knockdown
12 Ability Focus (Three Mountains)
14 Ability Focus (Brutal Strike)
15 Overwhelming Assault
16
18
18
20
So the idea is to leap attack to initiate an absurd brutal strike dc, trigger a trip attempt(knockdown) with sickened penalties, trigger a bonus attack from Improved Trip, thus hitting opponent twice triggering Three Mountains. Opponent is now prone, sickened and nauseated. He can choose to stand up or crawl both provoking an AoO. You can squish him at your leisure.
Is this a valid action for a first round?
Is there a way of either lowering the opponents fort save or increasing my brutal strike/three mountains DC or my Trip modifiers?My mother says: those on fire should roll.
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2007-07-03, 01:20 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2006
- Location
- Poland
- Gender
Re: Not called GREAT Club for nothing
What I really don't understand why three mountains can be performed only with morgenstern, greatclub or heavy mace....
Why not warhammer or maul
And anyway, it looks quite cool
Yeah!Last edited by Spiryt; 2007-07-03 at 01:21 PM.
Avatar by KwarkpuddingThe subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing;
Rush in and die, dogs—I was a man before I was a king.
Whoever makes shoddy beer, shall be thrown into manure - town law from Gdańsk, XIth century.
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2007-07-03, 01:22 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2006
- Gender
Re: Not called GREAT Club for nothing
AFB, but it seems legal. Add in a Barbarian level with the Lion Totem alternate class ability to get pounce and do it more than once in the round :D
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2007-07-03, 01:25 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2006
- Location
- inside your D20!
- Gender
Re: Not called GREAT Club for nothing
1 Power Attack
2 Cleave
3 Improved Bull Rush
4 Weapon Focus (Great Club)
5 Three Mountains
6 Brutal Strike
7 ShockTrooper
8 Leap Attack
9 Combat Expertise
10 Improved Trip
11 Knockdown
12 Ability Focus (Three Mountains)
13 Ability Focus (Brutal Strike)
14 Overwhelming Assault
15 because its called a Great Club
16
17
18
19
20
There we go, number 15 is a definate reason to use oneLast edited by CrazedGoblin; 2007-07-03 at 01:26 PM.
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2007-07-03, 01:41 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Nov 2005
- Location
- By a Park
- Gender
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2007-07-03, 01:44 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Dec 2006
- Gender
Re: Not called GREAT Club for nothing
1- Take the Morgenstein, you'll have the chance to make piercing damage
2- You will also have the option of taking a shield now and then, which, eventually, can prove to be a life-saver. You can always swing it with 2 hands to almost the same amount of damage.
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2007-07-03, 02:02 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2007
- Location
- Norway
- Gender
Re: Not called GREAT Club for nothing
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2007-07-03, 02:12 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2006
- Location
- Poland
- Gender
Re: Not called GREAT Club for nothing
You are a master of fighting with powerful bludgeoning weapons.
Aside that something like D&D maul is rather silly and never was actualy used in medieval, (20 pounds is little too much, even for a weapon which had to be heavy to be effective) it is certainy
powerful
So it fits the description.Avatar by KwarkpuddingThe subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing;
Rush in and die, dogs—I was a man before I was a king.
Whoever makes shoddy beer, shall be thrown into manure - town law from Gdańsk, XIth century.
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2007-07-03, 11:45 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2005
- Location
- Singapore
- Gender
Re: Not called GREAT Club for nothing
Maces/Clubs and Hammers/Mauls swing quite differently. With a mace/club, you generally distribute most of the mass across the length of the club(a little more in the head for the mace), whereas with hammers/mauls, you concentrate the mass in the head, which leads to totally different swinging styles(I've tried using a sledgehammer of the type used to drive iron pickets for corraling PoWs. No joke, it's heavy. I could barely get in 1 swing per 10 seconds, nevermind every 1.5 seconds. Conversely, I've swung a variety of bats of the types used for baseball, as well as a few types of rackets. Totally different effort, arc, etc.). Also, you have to hit with one specific point of the hammer(ie, the flat side of the edge, rather than the broad part, which would also slow down your swing with air resistance), which is not true with the club/mace.
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2007-07-04, 04:59 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Apr 2006
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- Erlangen
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Re: Not called GREAT Club for nothing
Last edited by Flawless; 2007-07-04 at 05:00 PM.
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2007-07-04, 05:11 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2006
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- Poland
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Re: Not called GREAT Club for nothing
You know, I'm not dumb, i never actually used those weapons for "medieval playing" fights or something, but i got hammer (battle one too) in my hands. Not to mention big stick. And I can easily imagine difference between hammer and mace in aerodynamic/balance e.c.
Still, it's not what i'm talking about - there IS difference between hammers and clubs it's obvious but it's nothing in feat description WHY you couldn't use maul.
I guess it's beacuse feat effects are quite powerful, so they didn't want to allow it with x3 crit. weapons, and encourage players to use clubs.Avatar by KwarkpuddingThe subtle tongue, the sophist guile, they fail when the broadswords sing;
Rush in and die, dogs—I was a man before I was a king.
Whoever makes shoddy beer, shall be thrown into manure - town law from Gdańsk, XIth century.
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2007-07-04, 06:14 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jul 2005
- Location
- Davis, California
- Gender
Re: Not called GREAT Club for nothing
2 things. Knockdown was disallowed about 2 months after it came out and standing up doesn't provoke an attack of opportunity. Otherwise, nice first round. Throw in a True Strike or something and you're sure to hit with all that power attack.
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2007-07-04, 06:19 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Oct 2005
Re: Not called GREAT Club for nothing
From the SRD.
Prone
The character is on the ground. An attacker who is prone has a -4 penalty on melee attack rolls and cannot use a ranged weapon (except for a crossbow). A defender who is prone gains a +4 bonus to Armor Class against ranged attacks, but takes a -4 penalty to AC against melee attacks.
Standing up is a move-equivalent action that provokes an attack of opportunity.Thanks to Veera for the avatar.
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2007-07-04, 06:24 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jan 2007
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2007-07-04, 06:29 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2006
- Location
- New York, USA
- Gender
Re: Not called GREAT Club for nothing
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2007-07-04, 06:44 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Feb 2006
- Location
- Manila, PH
- Gender
Re: Not called GREAT Club for nothing
So brutal strike is only standard melee attack actions? not for full attacks nor charges? The words "attack action" appear only in the second paragraph wheere in which the feat is limited to one use per attack action, so I assumed it was trggered by an melee attack roll, like a full attack, a charge or any other attack with a blugdeoning weapon. It a pretty sucky feat if you are limited to standard melee attacks.
with regards to knockdown, isn't Deities and Demigods 3.5, It's in the srd as it is without any mention that it does not provoke Improved Trips extra attack?My mother says: those on fire should roll.
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2007-07-04, 06:58 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2007
- Location
- Montréal
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Re: Not called GREAT Club for nothing
Leap Attack should work for Brutal Strike, with the way they're worded they do...
You make an attack action as part of a charge, methinks..Last edited by SadisticFishing; 2007-07-04 at 06:58 PM.
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2007-07-04, 07:02 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2007
- Location
- Norway
- Gender
Re: Not called GREAT Club for nothing
Deities and Demigods is 3.0. DnD 3.5 rules can be found in the DnD 3.5 Core rulebooks and DnD 3.5 supplements. Knock-Down is not in any of those.
If you want to make a case for no-errata Knock-Down you should point out that Sword and Fist predates Deities and Demigods, and there's no Knock-Down errata for Deities and Demigods. That makes the Deities and Demigods version different, and since it's a later supplement it trumps the S&F version.
WotC has the divine abilities and feats listed under the 3.5 SRD heading, so I suppose you could call it 3.5 if we were talking about a d20 product based on the SRD, not on the PHB/DMG/MM.
Since we're doing rules-lawyering I'd like to point out that as written Knock-Down requires a successful trip attack (a touch attack) before you get to the opposed check, and if lose the opposed check you risk being tripped yourself.
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2007-07-04, 07:09 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2007
- Location
- Norway
- Gender
Re: Not called GREAT Club for nothing
No.
From the official 3.5 FAQ. Note the underlined part:
Is it possible to use the Shot on the Run feat in
conjunction with the Manyshot feat? Some people I know
insist that you must use the attack action with Shot on the
Run, and they further claim that Manyshot is a standard
action and not the attack action. But there isn’t any such
thing as an attack action, is there? The text on actions in
Chapter 8 of the Player’s Handbook (page 138) describes
many kinds of actions (standard actions, move actions, fullround
actions, and free actions); it even describes things
that are not actions and mentions restricted activity.
Nowhere, however, do the rules describe attack actions. So,
what’s the correct answer?
No, you cannot use Shot on the Run and Manyshot
together.
It is true that no category of actions is called “attack
actions” in the D&D game, but there is an action called
attack—it’s the first action described under Standard Actions
on page 139 in the Player’s Handbook.
It might seem that the folks who say no Manyshot with
Shot On the Run are slicing the baloney a little thin, but the
letter of the rules is on their side, and so is the intent behind the
letter of the rules. The Manyshot feat description could say you
fire multiple arrows with the attack action, but it doesn’t.
Manyshot is a standard action, not a variant on the attack action
(see the feat description on page 97 in the Player’s Handbook).
Likewise, the Shot on the Run feat could allow you to make
any kind of ranged attack while moving, but it doesn’t. When
using Shot on the Run, you must use the attack action with a
ranged weapon (see the feat description on page 100 in the
Player’s Handbook). This rules out using spells, most magic
items, or special standard actions such as the Manyshot feat
when making a Shot on the Run. That’s because casting a spell
would require the cast a spell action (described on page 140 of
the Player’s Handbook), using any magic item except for some
use-activated items would require the activate magic item
action (Player’s Handbook, page 142), and, as already noted
here, using the Manyshot feat is a standard action. Most magic
weapons are use activated and don’t require any action to
activate at all (see page 213 in the Dungeon Master’s Guide),
so you can use these weapons along with the attack action. For
example, you could use a +1 longbow or +1 arrow (or both)
with the attack action, and thus you also could use these items
with Shot on the Run.
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2007-07-05, 10:39 AM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Mar 2007
- Location
- Rome, Italy
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Re: Not called GREAT Club for nothing
Originally Posted by SRDKnowledge, logic, reason, and common sense serve better than a dozen rule books.
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2007-07-05, 12:46 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Aug 2006
- Location
- Utah
- Gender
Re: Not called GREAT Club for nothing
... which is a great interpretation, whether or not it is actually what the rules say. Perfect for making the Knock-Down feat good but not overpowered.
Oh, and if you have Knock-Down, then you have Improved Trip, so you [b]don't[/i] risk getting tripped if you fail the opposed check. I guess if you're being a rules lawyer, though, then you'd still have to land a touch attack before you could trip someone with Knock-Down.You can call me Draz.
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2007-07-05, 03:38 PM (ISO 8601)
- Join Date
- Jun 2007
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- Norway
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