Corrupt spells

[Yechezkiel]

Does anyone have any experience DMing with these?

I'm planing to include them as rare scrolls here and there, as clues to plot and just as an element my players won't be familiar with. They don't seem to dangerous at first glance, especially with the costs on some of them, but are there any I need to take a good look at?

Most likely only one of my players will be able to cast them. I hope once in awhile he'll have to resort to them, despite the dangers.


P.S. The source of the Corrupt spells I am using are the Book of Vile Darkness and Heroes of Horror.

[Corolinth]

Some of the corrupt spells are extremely nasty.

The best way to run the corrupt spells is to not tell them about the corruption cost. Keep that as a surprise for when the player decides to use the scroll. These are spells of raw evil, they don't just advertise to potential spellcasters that there's a horrible price for daring to cast such foul magic.

[Yechezkiel]

I think I can keep the source of these spells secret from the players since they don't have access to a Book of Vile Darkness or Heroes of Horror. I plan to introduce the first Corrupt spell as a scroll, in this note along with the spell description when they Spellcraft/Read Magic:

"As you begin to comprehend the writing, you understand this to be a Scroll of Seething Eyebane. You have never heard of a Corrupt spell before, and as you come to discern exactly what this spell does, you realize the vellum it is written on is human skin."

[Wooter]

I think I can keep the source of these spells secret from the players since they don't have access to a Book of Vile Darkness or Heroes of Horror. I plan to introduce the first Corrupt spell as a scroll, in this note along with the spell description when they Spellcraft/Read Magic:

"As you begin to comprehend the writing, you understand this to be a Scroll of Seething Eyebane. You have never heard of a Corrupt spell before, and as you come to discern exactly what this spell does, you realize the vellum it is written on is human skin."

Why does it always have to be human skin? Why not elf skin?

[Kizara]

There are more humans/easier to get.
Orc skin likely too rough/crappy quality.

[Yechezkiel]

I'm actually using a d100 chart to determine the creepy bits in the Corrupt spells. 1-90 is human. They're the most abundant race that no one seems to mind if a few go missing here and there.

[Ranis]

I use the Souls as Power variant in my game, and I gave them a Corrupt Cursed Scroll of Soul Trapping off of the body of a Mind Flayer. The curse was that it took the took the user's soul to sit with the soul being trapped.

The result? Imagine being trapped in a small emerald with the soul of a Glabrezu.

My PCs have never picked up or used a scroll I've given them as loot. They're too scared.

And the wizard traumatized.

[Corolinth]

Do not tell them it's a corrupt spell. Make them infer that on their own when they notice the scroll is penned on human skin.

[Wooter]

There are more humans/easier to get.
Orc skin likely too rough/crappy quality.

D&D is to homocentric.
When was th last time you swa a dwarf zombie? A halfling skeleton? A gnome vampire?

[Thomix]

I saw a kobold zombie once...

[Inyssius Tor]

I love gnome vampires. Also, I'll note that elf-skin scrolls would probably be really high quality...

[Yechezkiel]

Well my take on undead usually being of human remains is due to the burial practices of the races.

(In the world I run) Dwarves and Elves protect their departed ancestors. Humans... not so much (not to mention the high "turnover" rate).

I guess Halfling corpses retain their +4 to Hide and maybe Gnome just go *poof* when they die like Conjured creatures (i.e. I haven't thought much outside of Human, Dwarf and Elf burial rights).

[Raltar]

I think in Races of the Wild, it says something about elves casting some spell on the corpse that turns them to dust...so it's kinda hard to have an elven skeleton or zombie unless they die outside of the elven community.

[Kurald Galain]

You have never heard of a Corrupt spell before

This phrase (especially with the capital C) should be a way-obvious red flag to most players. I'd recommend not using it, it's not subtle enough.

[terror_drone]

Tell them, when they study the scroll, that the spell and forces behind the writing feel off, as if there is something unfamiliar to the spell thats feels like bile over fresh water.

Also try not to write on human skin, after all when something is written on the skin of a sentient being it tends to tip the party off that there is something f'ed up with said writing.

[Yechezkiel]

Good suggestions, thank you all.

I'm not against the players destroying all Corrupt items they encounter, it's there mainly as plot clues and to make them aware that these horrible spells exist. Only one player will be able to use them and I think it'll put him and the party into an interesting roleplaying scenario.

[Droodle]

I find the idea that a wizard with high enough spellcraft to learn a specific corrupt spell wouldn't recognize a corrupt spell as, well, corrupt. Not only would he know that the spell is evil, but he would also know that such spells carry a price.......though it is perfectly plausible that the wizard wouldn't know what exactly the price is. Don't try to trick your players on this one. You don't have to tell them the price, but you should tell them that corrupt spells carry one. A sorcerer with no spellcraft or a Bard even dumber than Elan may not know, but a wizard? No way.

[Starsinger]

Also try not to write on human skin, after all when something is written on the skin of a sentient being it tends to tip the party off that there is something f'ed up with said writing.

Exactly, if I were evil, I would write my dark twisted scrolls on the most plain of paper I could find, with the most mundane of inks possible to use when writing a scroll. I wouldn't write it down on human skin, in the blood of a thousand virgin elves, with a quill made from a unicorn's horn topped with the skull of a baby halfling... that's like putting a sign on it saying, "Caution: EVIL!!" in bright neon letters. Now, out of amusement, I might write some ... oh what is the Exalted version of it called? Sanctified? Well whatever they're called, I might write some of those down in blood and stuff, to throw off the PCs.

Wizard: This spell is called, "Naughty Spell of Kicking Puppies" written on nondescript parchment... must be okay! *scribe* But this one is called "Celestial Might of the Dancing Eladrin" written on.. SKIN! in... BLOOD! this spell must be EVIL!!

*sigh* if only it were that easy to fool PCs...

[Kurald Galain]

Not only would he know that the spell is evil, but he would also know that such spells carry a price.......

Not at all. That's one of the differences between intelligence and wisdom.

[Xuincherguixe]

Ooo oo! Say that it apears to be written on some kind of animal skin.

Humans are animals after all...

Okay maybe that's not fair. But I mean, makes sense that a spell might be written on say, pig skin.

They probably wouldn't really be too put off if it was on Dragon Skin. But if you think about it, it's still pretty horrific.


You also may want to just leave it at, "You see a scroll written on a (dragon/animal/devil) skin, as you read it you can't help but get the feeling there is something a little strange about it." If you even want to let them know it's creepy. Maybe it's only when they cast it that they notice something is up.

[Droodle]

Not at all. That's one of the differences between intelligence and wisdom.

So, basically you are saying that the very existence of corrupt magic wouldn't be known by a wizard who spent years studying spellcraft from a master? If not a spellcraft check, a Knowledge (Arcana) check (with an absurdly low DC) would give the wizard all the pertinent information. Anyone with ranks in spellcraft or Knowledge (Arcana) is going to have heard something about these types of spells at some point in their training.

Think about it. Any time a wizard learns any spell, he knows what it does. Exactly what it does. Nothing in the BoVD indicates that corrupt spells work any differently in that regard. The wizard, having made a successful Knowledge (Arcanca) or spellcraft check is not only going to know what the spell does to the bad guys, but also what it does to him. Just like with any other spell a wizard will ever cast.

[terror_drone]

Yes but he wants Corrupt Magic to be a plot point, second he said its rare in the world and no matter how studied a person is if no one else has heard of it then how can he? Third the DM's will trumps any and all books.

[Tormsskull]

Yes but he wants Corrupt Magic to be a plot point, second he said its rare in the world and no matter how studied a person is if no one else has heard of it then how can he? Third the DM's will trumps any and all books.

B I N G-O, B I N G-O, B I N G-O and BINGO was his name-o.

[Yechezkiel]

Ooo oo! Say that it apears to be written on some kind of animal skin.

Vellum is a skin/paper/parchment concoction, as I understand it. I'm a big proponent of having different regions/nations use different writing materials as often as I can remember.

On the suggestion of keeping the Corrupt Cost hidden, I'm leaning towards letting them know they'll lose something (and it will be something similar each time), but keep the die I'm using behind the screen... they will know which stat is taking the hit after the first casting of a spell, but they can never be sure how big a die it is. I'm just hoping a max roll of a 6 on the first cast doesn't scare them off from ever touching it again.

[Yechezkiel]

Does anyone think a Maximized Corrupt spell has a Maximized Corrupt Cost?

This is probably just an interpretation thing (because I can't find any errata), with choosing to have it (or any other number raising Metamagic) affect the cost would be pretty detremental to the player.

[Starsinger]

On the suggestion of keeping the Corrupt Cost hidden, I'm leaning towards letting them know they'll lose something (and it will be something similar each time), but keep the die I'm using behind the screen... they will know which stat is taking the hit after the first casting of a spell, but they can never be sure how big a die it is. I'm just hoping a max roll of a 6 on the first cast doesn't scare them off from ever touching it again.

You could always invoke some DM magic and only "roll" a 1 or a 2 the first time its cast. "Oh? This happens at only the cost of a point of X or two.. that's not my casting stat, who cares? It'll be good for emergencies."

[Xuincherguixe]

Does anyone think a Maximized Corrupt spell has a Maximized Corrupt Cost?

This is probably just an interpretation thing (because I can't find any errata), with choosing to have it (or any other number raising Metamagic) affect the cost would be pretty detremental to the player.

I would say no myself.

[psychoticbarber]

After the comments about Corrupt magic being a rare form of magic, I had a mental image of a Master Wizard teaching his student, and the conversation went something like this (For the Master Wizard, hear a stuffy, British, History-teacher type):

Student: "Master Vorwin, what is this that I've read about Corrupt Magic?"
Master: "What's that? Who's been filling your head with that nonsense? I swear to BOCCOB for every time somebody invokes that bogey-man claptrap I grow another gray hair. My boy. Corrupt magic is a legend, and a Wizard who pays careful attention to what he tries to do and matches it to what he is capable of will face no adverse affects from his magic. Magic is just a tool, it is neither good nor evil. Corrupt Magic is invoked by simple commoners who do not understand our gift. Nothing more."

If people like THAT don't provide a reasonable reason for your Wizard not know about this magic, nothing will