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  1. - Top - End - #1
    Bugbear in the Playground
     
    Greyen's Avatar

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    Default Polymorph Subschool question

    Ok, I am playing in a high level game as a wizard. I have an equal level human fighter type traveling with me. I want to use polymorph ot Polymorph any object to turn him into a half-fiend/orc for the strength bonus and the wings or even better a halfdragon/giant(of some sort).

    Now, as I read it, correct me if I am wrong here. Using the polymorph subschool rules his equipment would be subsumed into his new form and become useless. This would make the bonuses from his magic weapon and armor useless.

    But I was thinking, and that is what breaks D&D rules I know, if the new form can use the equipment why would it be subsumed into the new form? Does it have to be or do we need him to strip it off first, then put it back on? Can it just not be subsumed if it will still fit and till be used?
    Last edited by Greyen; 2007-07-03 at 04:04 PM.
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    Bugbear in the Playground
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    Default Re: Polymorph Subscholl question

    If his new form has wings, his old armor will be useless anyway. He'll need to buy specially crafted stuff (1.5x normal price).
    Last edited by Inyssius Tor; 2007-07-03 at 02:13 PM.
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    Default Re: Polymorph Subscholl question

    WoTC is presently trying to put the genie back into the bottle when it comes to Polymorph.

    Originally the spell did what you want, but they have since changed it to automatically absorb ALL worn equipment when something polymorphs. This is to prevent cheesy things like "polymorph-any-object"ing someone into a far more powerful creature and letting them keep their normal gear without a little preparation first.

    Of course, nothing prevening them from taking it off early and getting their artificer friend to move the enchantments onto new armor.
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  4. - Top - End - #4
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    Iku Rex's Avatar

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    Default Re: Polymorph Subscholl question

    The polymorph subschool has very little effect on existing PHB spells. It's primarily intended for the new polymorph spells that only let you change into a single specific monster.

    You can not use PaO to give someone a template.

    From the Official 3.5 FAQ:

    Quote Originally Posted by FAQ
    Can you use polymorph* to turn into a creature with a
    template?

    No. Polymorph is based on alter self, which clearly states
    that “[Y]ou cannot take the form of any creature with a
    template, even if that template doesn’t change the creature type
    or subtype.”
    *The question and answer uses “polymorph” to refer
    specifically to spells that rely on the polymorph or alter self
    spell to adjudicate their effect (including alter self, polymorph,
    polymorph any object, and shapechange), ...
    The FAQ also covers equipment:
    Quote Originally Posted by FAQ
    What happens to the equipment worn and carried by a
    character polymorphed* into another creature capable of
    wearing and carrying the same gear? What if the new
    creature’s size is different?

    Unless stated otherwise, all spells in the polymorph chain
    function as described in the alter self spell description, which
    states that if the new form is capable of wearing or holding the
    item, it remains worn or held; otherwise it melds into the new
    form and becomes nonfunctional. A human polymorphed into
    another Medium humanoid-shaped form (such as an elf,
    grimlock, or bearded devil) can wear or hold all his gear, so it
    remains in place.
    However, this is one of those times when size definitely
    matters, since your gear doesn’t automatically change size as a
    result of polymorph
    . Assuming the new form has appropriate
    body locations—for instance, a human polymorphed into a troll
    or a pixie—most of your magic items (rings, cloaks, boots, and
    other items of magic clothing or jewelry) still fit just fine

    regardless of your new size (see “Size and Magic Items” on
    page 213 of the Dungeon Master’s Guide).
    Nonmagical clothing and accoutrements that don’t fit the
    new size meld into the character’s body when he is
    polymorphed. (The Sage recommends that DMs err on the side
    of leniency when determining what the new form can or can’t
    wear.)
    Similarly, armor (even magic armor) doesn’t resize to fit
    wearers of different sizes
    . The human described above loses the
    benefit of his +1 full plate armor as it melds into his body,
    even though the new form is capable of wearing armor.
    As long as your new form can hold weapons (that is, it has
    hands or other similarly dexterous extremities), you hold on to
    whatever weapons you had before the change. However, since
    the weapons are no longer of a size appropriate to you, you take
    a penalty on attack rolls with them as described on page 113 of
    the Player’s Handbook.
    A human polymorphed into a troll can
    still hold his Medium weapons (although they’re now one size
    category too small for optimal use and thus he’ll suffer a –2
    penalty on attack rolls). On the plus side, he can now wield that
    Medium greatsword with only one hand, meaning he could
    pick up a shield or a second weapon to wield simultaneously.
    If your barbarian is regularly polymorphed into a troll or
    stone giant, you might want to consider carrying an extra Large
    weapon for use in those situations.
    *The question and answer uses “polymorph” to refer
    specifically to spells that rely on the polymorph or alter self
    spell to adjudicate their effect (including alter self, polymorph,
    polymorph any object, and shapechange), psionic powers based
    on the metamorphosis power (including metamorphosis and
    greater metamorphosis), and any other effect based on either of
    these lists.
    You'll probably also want to read this answer:

    Quote Originally Posted by FAQ
    What properties of polymorph are inherited for the spell
    polymorph any object (Player’s Handbook, page 263)? The
    guidelines suggest that it overrides the normal rules for
    creature type (an object isn’t any type of creature) and Hit
    Die limits (turning a pebble into a human or a shrew into a
    manticore, for example), but the spell doesn’t explicitly
    describe the changes.

    You correctly note that polymorph any object isn’t as clear
    as it could be. The intent of the spell, however, becomes clear
    by reading the accompanying charts. Polymorph any object
    retains all the limitations of polymorph except as follows:
    • It can affect an object, and also adds “object” to the list of
    new forms allowed. It doesn’t add any more eligible creature
    types for the new form (you can’t use polymorph any object to
    assume the form of a construct, elemental, outsider, or undead).
    • The assumed form still can’t have more Hit Dice than
    your caster level (to a maximum of 15 HD at 15th level), but
    the secondary limit of the subject’s original HD doesn’t apply.
    A pebble (with no HD) or a lizard (with 1 HD) can be
    transformed into any form whose HD don’t exceed 15 or the
    caster’s level, whichever is lower. (Arguably, polymorph any
    object should have a higher HD cap than polymorph, but that’s
    not how the spell is written.) The new form can even have no
    HD at all (as in the case of a creature polymorphed into an
    object).
    The "best" form depends on the fighter's Int/feats and the books available, but Stone Giants (MM), Firbolg (MM2) and War Trolls (MM3) are generally good melee polymorph forms for a fighter.

  5. - Top - End - #5
    Ogre in the Playground
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    Default Re: Polymorph Subscholl question

    The important thing about the polymorph subschool is that it doesn't override existing properties polymorph chain based spells ... it is as such largely irrelevant to those spells, which shouldn't have been made part of the school.

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    Default Re: Polymorph Subschool question

    Thanks All.
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