Incarnate: Useless?

[Skjaldbakka]

I've been looking at Magic of the Incarnum, and am having trouble seeing what the Incarnate class is good for. For those of you that have messed with MoI more, what is it supposed to be good at?

[MeklorIlavator]

I've heard its good for skill-monkeys, but that's hearsay, as the only one I've see was a tank(the primary one, infact.)

[Ramza00]

everything? :-P

It is a jack of all trades, master of none. Who isn't that bad if you know how to play him.

http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=574633

[SoulCatcher78]

The book has pretty pictures but I didn't get much further than that. Looked like another "feature packed" book that I won't have time to read much less incorporate into a working campaign.

[Tack122]

I don't get how you saw it as useless, when I got it I immediately wanted to take the feat allowing me to use a meld on my rogue.

I also had a lot of fun creating a Soul Forge dude or whatever that class is.. didn't get to play him unfortunately :(

[BCOVertigo]

everything? :-P

It is a jack of all trades, master of none. Who isn't that bad if you know how to play him.

http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=574633

I would describe them as a specialist. A character who is incapable of outperforming other classes because they are spread too thin is a 'master of none'. The incarnate, at least from that breakdown, seems to be able to devote its resources to a task and excel at it at the expense of its other abilities for that time period.

It's possible that they could play similar to a chameleon, which I understand is a decent and entertaining class from a class features perspective, but I just dislike the flavor of MoI and haven't seen any explanations that I like or had any players who wished to pitch it to me in a more favorable light.

So useless? Probably not. I'm not going to play one any time soon though. Frankly MoI is a book I somewhat regret spending my money on but I'd be happy for someone to run up and defend it so I feel better about my emaciated wallet.

[The Valiant Turtle]

You've struck on one of the bigger problems of MoI. It's very hard to figure out what role they are supposed to play in the party.

Let me add another thread from the WotC boards you might want to look at:

http://boards1.wizards.com/showthread.php?t=530815

One interesting feature of MoI is that Essentia capacity increases with character level, not just meldshaper level. So you can multi-class with them quite effectively. Just be sure to grab the Bonus Essentia feat at 6th level so you have more essentia to work with.

Personally I think multi-classing is the way to go for the Incarnate, although the Totemist is pretty strong straight up. I don't think I'd really consider multi-classing with an arcane caster, but Divine classes that need to play healer alot can greatly benfit from the Lifebond Vestments and Therapeutic Mantle melds (even a cure wand user can benefit from that trick).

Check the WotC threads for lots and lots more information and builds.

[Fizban]

I haven't tried one, but I get the feeling that someone could find something to do with them.

My main problem is that they have the lowest BAB, and no use in a fight that I can find. The can't deal damage, they can't save or not save or suck, they're just kinda there. They go and have a picture of one in full plate with a greatsword, then you turn the page and see 1/2 BAB and a low (d6?) hit die.

[Ramza00]

I would describe them as a specialist. A character who is incapable of outperforming other classes because they are spread too thin is a 'master of none'. The incarnate, at least from that breakdown, seems to be able to devote its resources to a task and excel at it at the expense of its other abilities for that time period.

It's possible that they could play similar to a chameleon, which I understand is a decent and entertaining class from a class features perspective, but I just dislike the flavor of MoI and haven't seen any explanations that I like or had any players who wished to pitch it to me in a more favorable light.

So useless? Probably not. I'm not going to play one any time soon though. Frankly MoI is a book I somewhat regret spending my money on but I'd be happy for someone to run up and defend it so I feel better about my emaciated wallet.

Maybe I didn't describe it correctly. Incarnate is much like a binder, it can switch its abilities and its specialty with little thought at the beginning of the day when it choses its soulmelds. None of its abilities really require lots of feat investment, or item investment. Thus one day it can be a brawler, while another it may set on a role similar to a warlock.

[Fizban]

I agree, after reading the provided thread, the Incarnate does seem much like a binder. It's a lot harder to tell what the incarnate can do however, because there's so many things to keep track of, whereas the Binder just has x vestiges bound, and they grant stuff. Plus the Binder starts with 3/4 BAB and 1d8 hp, which is a lot easier to defend when you look at classes like the rogue in the thick of things, and the binder specifically has abilities for extra hp/AC/DR, but for the Incarnate you have to look for them yourself.

[The Valiant Turtle]

If an incarnate needs to be effective in battle he pretty much needs to have dissolving spittle or lightning gauntlets shaped, both of which are touch attacks, so the BAB issue isn't as big as you might think (unless your fighting small fast critters). Most of them are going to want dissolving spittle since it's ranged, does acid damage, and gets a big boost once you can bind it to a chakra. With either of those shaped an Incarnate can usually do just fine in combat. A lawful incarnate has enough to-hit boost that they could probably handle straight melee well enough if they choose to. Evil incarnates can boost their damage substantially, but can't get their to-hit as high.

It's easily possible for either of those melds to be doing 3d6 at first level. All you need is anything that adds +1 essentia (either an race or a feat) and then take the Improved essentia capacity feat). At 1st level 3d6 acid damage takes out nearly anything. It doesn't ramp up very quickly, but it stays very competitive, check out the WotC links for an in depth numerical analysis.

Don't underestimate their tanking abilities either. Con is their casting stat (for some bizarre reason) so their HP will be higher than you might think. If HP are a real issue they can get a huge boost from the vitality belt.

The major problem with all of Magic of Incarnum is that none of it does anything like arcane or divine magic. They do resemble the Binder quite a lot and also have some qualities similar to the Warlock.

Keep in mind that the Totemist is usually considered the strongest of the MoI classes, at least for melee. Many of it's melds get extremely powerful when bound to the Totem chakra (Landshark boots come to mind as an excellent example).

[Ichneumon]

It's easily possible for either of those melds to be doing 3d6 at first level. All you need is anything that adds +1 essentia (either an race or a feat) and then take the Improved essentia capacity feat). At 1st level 3d6 acid damage takes out nearly anything. It doesn't ramp up very quickly, but it stays very competitive, check out the WotC links for an in depth numerical analysis.

A bit out of topic perhaps, but just for correctness. You mean the feat "Expanded soulmeld capacity", not "Improved essentia capacity", the second one is only for feats, not for soulmelds.

But you are right, if you invest 2 points of essentia (the second one from a feat or racial ability), you can deal 3d6 damage.