Why didn't Redcloak & Xykon attack at night?

[Morty]

I've been pondering about the battle of Azure City for a while now, and I've realized that Redcloak's and Xykon's army would be at big advantage if they had attacked at night.
I mean, both hobgoblins and undead have got Darkvision out to 60 feet. That's not very much, but if battle was taking place at night, Azurites would have to light torches or something similiar on the walls to see anything. That means hobgoblin arrows would come from nowhere- hobgoblins not only wold see in the dark out to 60 feet, but AC soldiers would be illuminated. Not to mention hobgoblins would try to quench the torches as soon as they're on walls, rendering defenders blind. Not to mention it would make it harder to observe moves of the army if there were dark and said army wasn't carrying torches.
I know that:
1) They won anyway
2) This comic isn't about efectiveness,
but would that work?

[Talum]

Xykon didn't attack at night for only one reason: HE IS AN IDIOT far too many times xykon have done stupid things, ¿why are you surprised that he is doing something stupid now?

[yoshi927]

Except, there's another factor; time is important. They know that Shojo died, at least, and so it's best to attack immediately, rather than allow Hinjo time to regroup the defenders and attempt to raise their morale. Also, since the Azurites had found out about the attack a few hours before it happened, they didn't have much time to plan strategy either. Another benefit, though Xykon probably wouldn't have known, is that there's no time to negotiate with the nobles either.

[hewhosaysfish]

Xykon (or more likely Redcloak) obviously decided that the benefits of attacking quickly out weighed those of waiting to dark. Remember, Miko's warning only arrived a short while before the army (see #376) so the defenders were still in disarray somewhat.

[Pepz]

Why didn't Redcloak & Xykon attack at night? all the reasons for attacking at night are reasons of self defense :) defenders are blind etc :) but Xykon doesn't give two pennies for minions :) he just wanted to get to the gate, nothing else. Tacticians would attack at night (or just before dawn, but o well ;) ) Xykon would attack as soon as the army got there :)

[TiamatRoar]

Attacking at night would have given time for Azure city reinforcements to arrive. Chang mentions that there wasn't any time for anymore reinforcements, so Xykon had to attack immediately to make sure that was true.

[factotum]

60 feet of darkvision isn't really a lot when you're in a melee with up to 40,000 participants. Also, we have no guarantee that Xykon himself or any of the other undead in the army would be able to see in the dark, and since he's by far their most potent weapon, that could have caused problems!

[Morty]

60 feet of darkvision isn't really a lot when you're in a melee with up to 40,000 participants. Also, we have no guarantee that Xykon himself or any of the other undead in the army would be able to see in the dark, and since he's by far their most potent weapon, that could have caused problems!

All undead have 60 ft. darkvision. Also, while 60 ft. darkvision isn't much, humans don't have any sort of darkvision, which puts hobgoblins and undead on advantage.
As for above posts: I think it'd be fairly easy to attack at night while still following the original plan. Xykon and Redcloak would just have to coordinate moves of the army differently.

[Snake-Aes]

in a horse-powered traveling world, waiting for the nightfall is really not important unless the said reinforcements are already at sight.

If you look at it, it'd be better to attack at night, true. One minus for the Azurites. They wouldn't get much better in the day timespan.

[Spiryt]

in a horse-powered traveling world, waiting for the nightfall is really not important unless the said reinforcements are already at sight.

True. Looks like Xykon really didn't care about city or his soldiers. He just wanted distraction.
But, you know, he probably payed for that.

In the darkness everytnig could go BETTER for him.
For example Miko certainly would have more problems with getting out of cell.
She certainly wouldn't noticed that one iron bar is damaged, for example.

Don't you think?

[Orzel]

Attacking at night is BAD FOR VILLAINS!.


Heroes gain +10 Badassery when night falls.
Almost every action movie ends at night and the villain tends to die.

[SteveMB]

That would require Xykon to exercise patience. Nuff said.

[Morty]

Yeah, Xykon is as good at tactics as Miko is at social relations. But Redcloak isn't dumb and would have thought about it.
Though quite obviously the reason was the ultimate Plot.

[Zhrec]

Gess what? X and RC does not care about number of dead hobgoblins. RC race care had started only in the midle of this events. Plus, why should you care about darkness when you outnumbering enemies 1 to 1000???

[Pyrian]

The torches really wouldn't illuminate the wall very well - if the defenders used them at all, which they probably wouldn't. Meanwhile, the hobgoblins apparently had quite a few more archers than the defenders.

[Spiryt]

- if the defenders used them at all, which they probably wouldn't.

So how the would they see anything ?

Of course we cannot forget bright moon or something that night, but still, hobgoblins darkvision will be advantage.

[JaxGaret]

Okay, first of all, there's lots of low level spells such as Light, Daylight, and such, that would almost completely negate all advantages of attacking with an army at night, so it isn't that great of an idea in the first place.

Secondly, X & R wanted to attack ASAP.

That's it.

[Emperor Ing]

Is it possible they cant distinguish between night and day, so some could think its night, but it really isnt. Its a possibility!

[Zangor]

Attacking at night is BAD FOR VILLAINS!.


Heroes gain +10 Badassery when night falls.
Almost every action movie ends at night and the villain tends to die.

Quoted for Truth and Emphasis. Seriously. You win.

[Duric]

There do exist magic solutions to counter darkness:
http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/daylight.htm

The spell has duration and lit area.

But a wand or some scrolls may cover the need.
when all they need is a carrier e.g. a catapult boulder.

AC city should have the funds to keep this kind of magic on storage.

So not much would have been gained by waiting

[Tmabbbb]

I agree with a lot of the facts OP mentioned. I also thought of another benefit: Xykon doesn't need to wait a long time. Redcloak just has to say "Later that night", and day would go by so fast that AC still wouldn't have enough time to prepare. (Yes, I'm joking, but I still agree with OP)

[Morty]

Yeah, as always, there are magical counters to everything but it'd take precious spell slots, plus such spells are dispellable and don't last for forever. So Xykon and Redcloak would still be at advantage.

[Chronos]

Plus, why should you care about darkness when you outnumbering enemies 1 to 1000???

When you outnumber the enemy 1000 to 1, you shoudn't care about much of anything. But when you outnumber them 3 to 1, and they're behind fortifications, there's a lot of things you should care about.

My guess is that, had Redcloak been solely in charge of the army, they would have, but Xykon doesn't care about tactics, and is impatient, so they just went in as soon as possible.

[Spiryt]

Bah, i don't understand why spells would fix anything.

They're bassically torches which consume spellsots. Torches can be extinguished, but spells can be disspelled. It lasts 10 min/level.

Even considering that AC has so many clerics to illuminate all wall lenght (on 7th level let's say, it's quite high - their best warriors were on 5 and there were 13 of them...), still after 70 minutes...fizzle. Darkness one more time, in the middle of action, massacre of defenders.

And still soldiers shooting to hobgoblins within 60 -120 feet would have 20 % miss chance, and hobgoblins could hide at any moment if they injured or something. And 120+ feet - arrows from nowhere. And catapults shots from nowhere. Azurians couldn't use their catapults - even army is hard to hit when you don't see it at all. Sure, V could cast fireballs to check "if something's here" or Durkon could navigate catapults, but still theye wouldn't be effective.

Even historicallly, assaults on castles/fortified positions were ussualy made in night, from all this reasons (to reduce cassaulties e.c.).
And in fantasy world, when attacker are not the same kind as defenders - they can see well in night, and defenders cannot....

Still - hobgoblins will have powerful advantage in night, fewer of them wil fall e.c. But very simple, our fauvorite Xykon doesn't give a flying (censored) about losses pf his army, and his very probably, an idiot indeed

So he didn't attack at night.


EDIT: Oh, i just realised, that there is no way in which Durkon could navigate catapults, his darkvision is 60 feet after all...

[Studoku]

It's because it is so much easier to draw epic seiges taking place in daylight.

[Spiryt]

It's because it is so much easier to draw epic seiges taking place in daylight.

Easier maybe, but they are so much more epic in the night!

Fires, darkness, even greater fear, where are they, i don't see anything. Like Helm's Deep.

But obviously Elan couldn't sayBut I don't want to fight in the shade then

[David Argall]

Actually, it is easier to draw the night scene. Just swab it in black.
But it does make for a lousy picture. So the needs of the comic dictate a day attack.

Now for an excuse for the day attack, we can try the elementals making a breach in the wall. They must be launched in the daytime so the attackers can see what the damage is. And once the breach is made, the attack must follow immediately. Any delay means the defenders start repairing the hole. As it was, V was able to add a few feet to the wall. Given hours, that means more repairs, which means a bigger ramp of dead hobgoblins is needed for the Death Knight. That's reason to attack right away.

[Spiryt]

Now for an excuse for the day attack, we can try the elementals making a breach in the wall. They must be launched in the daytime so the attackers can see what the damage is. And once the breach is made, the attack must follow immediately. Any delay means the defenders start repairing the hole. As it was, V was able to add a few feet to the wall. Given hours, that means more repairs, which means a bigger ramp of dead hobgoblins is needed for the Death Knight. That's reason to attack right away.

But damages will be quite well visible, due to torches/daylight on the walls. Without torches deffenders won't see much so it will be bad for them.

Of course in case of moonlit night sittuasion will be quite better.
Anyway you must admit that ramp of hobgoblins was super cruel an dumb plan anyway. Every reasonable (not Xykon) commander would use some wooden ramp or sometning. Still it's Xykon so he didn't. And he also didn't attacked during night.

[Dinkyass]

Why didn't Redcloak just say, "Later that evening..."? God knows it's worked before...

[Shatteredtower]

Why didn't Redcloak and Xykon attack at night?

Azure City had at least one elf on their side.

Low-light vision trumps darkvision outside on a clear night. The latter lets you see clearly (in black and white) out to 60 ft. The former sees as well as in full daylight.