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2016-08-21, 04:27 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2015
Animal Messenger (and how to use it wrong)
In all honesty this doesn't seem like something a Druid would do, so Ritual Casting Feat (or Warlock) would be the way to go.
Spoiler: Ritual Casting"Ritual Casting
Certain spells have a special tag: ritual. Such a spell can be cast following the normal rules for spellcasting, or the spell can be cast as a ritual. The ritual version of a spell takes 10 minutes longer to cast than normal. It also doesn’t expend a spell slot, which means the ritual version of a spell can’t be cast at a higher level.
To cast a spell as a ritual, a spellcaster must have a feature that grants the ability to do so. The cleric and the druid, for example, have such a feature. The caster must also have the spell prepared or on his or her list of spells known, unless the character’s ritual feature specifies otherwise, as the wizard’s does."
Spoiler: Animal Messenger"Animal Messenger
2nd-level enchantment (ritual)
Casting Time: 1 action
Range: 30 feet
Components: V, S, M (a morsel of food)
Duration: 24 hours
By means of this spell, you use an animal to deliver a message. Choose a Tiny beast you can see within range, such as a squirrel, a blue jay, or a bat. You specify a location, which you must have visited, and a recipient who matches a general description, such as “a man or woman dressed in the uniform of the town guard” or “a red-haired dwarf wearing a pointed hat.” You also speak a message of up to twenty-five words. The target beast travels for the duration of the spell toward the specified location, covering about 50 miles per 24 hours for a flying messenger, or 25 miles for other animals.
When the messenger arrives, it delivers your message to the creature that you described, replicating the sound of your voice. The messenger speaks only to a creature matching the description you gave. If the messenger doesn’t reach its destination before the spell ends, the message is lost, and the beast makes its way back to where you cast this spell.
At Higher Levels: If you cast this spell using a spell slot of 3rd level or higher, the duration of the spell increases by 48 hours for each slot level above 2nd."
The tiny beast is still a beast and only automatically comes back if they don't arrive at their destination in time.
So lets get a bunch ofPoisonous SnakesFlying Snakes... Like, a lot.
So for 18 hours a day (we allow for two short rests so that eating can be done plus give these suckers some time to get to their destination) each level 3druidcaster will be casting Animal Messenger. That will be 108 Flying Sneks (18 hours = 1,080 mins = 106 10.1-min castings). Probably won't need more casting but if we have two or threedruidscasters... Overkill is nice.
Animal Messenger them while they are in their cage. The spell lasts for 24 hours so we want to be close-ish to the enemy's lair. This could be an orc chieftain or maybe a politician...
Let them loose. You now have (106 * # ofDruidsCasters) Flying Snakes coming directly at some poor dude. Have the message be one word, something short, something that doesn't link these snakes to you "hiss" works well.
Once they give the message... Well, they are going to be snakes. Snakes have one real option when startled, which with the mass panic that will be going on, which is bite the hell out of all living things.
This would take some time to set up but I find it fun that a group of level 3 players could send (106 * N) snakes to an enemy. Or if you want to take out a town... NPC commoners are quite easy to kill after all.
AC: 13
HP: 2
+5 to hit, 1 damage + (2d4 Poison damage, DC 10 save half)
A lot of these snakes are going to die, which is why this is very Druid. However with massive numbers comes massive casualties. Especially if you send these at night (2 or 3 AM) when most creatures will have disadvantage on seeing/attacking while the snakes have blindsight 10.
Whoever you sent these after is going to fricken die.
Note: All the snakes are let loose at once.
Note 2: Make sure to release snakes from different directions. No running away.
Note 3: At DPR 8 that's still 848 points of damage per PC doing this. 4 x 848 = 3,392 per round.
If you think the snakes won't attack... Why would they attack an adventurer on sight but not anyone else? :p
Note 4: This is the type of 3e/4e shenanigans I've missed.
Jellypooga pointed out that Flying Snakes are an option. I was unaware that they were in the SRD lol
I wonder if we could kill a dragon this way... Probably not but it would be a great way to start the battle :PLast edited by R.Shackleford; 2016-08-21 at 06:46 PM.
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2016-08-21, 06:04 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2015
Re: Animal Messenger (and how to use it wrong)
Niiiiiiiiice. I had thought about strapping some kind of magical proximity mine to animals affected by Animal Messenger, but this idea is way better/easier to pull off.
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2016-08-21, 06:21 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2016
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Re: Animal Messenger (and how to use it wrong)
I'd allow it. But they'd have to go on quite a few excursions to capture all those snakes and to buy the cage.
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2016-08-21, 06:27 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2015
Re: Animal Messenger (and how to use it wrong)
For extra points, open the cages into a pen so you can send them all in at once. A bunch of snakes showing up one at a time are easily dispatched, but a swarm just gets ridiculous!
Originally Posted by krugaan
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2016-08-21, 06:30 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2015
Re: Animal Messenger (and how to use it wrong)
Last edited by R.Shackleford; 2016-08-21 at 06:31 PM.
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2016-08-21, 06:37 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Aug 2006
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- England
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Re: Animal Messenger (and how to use it wrong)
Why use Poisonous Snakes when Flying Snakes exist? Finding a nest of several hundred Flying Snakes is probably an issue to consider, but imagine finding that "motherlode" on some exotic island somewhere...
I apologise if I come across daft. I'm a bit like that. I also like a good argument, so please don't take offence if I'm somewhat...forthright.
Please be aware; when it comes to 5ed D&D, I own Core (1st printing) and SCAG only. All my opinions and rulings are based solely on those, unless otherwise stated. I reserve the right of ignorance of errata or any other source.
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2016-08-21, 06:42 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2015
Re: Animal Messenger (and how to use it wrong)
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2016-08-21, 07:18 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2012
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2016-08-21, 07:44 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2015
Re: Animal Messenger (and how to use it wrong)
Another use of the spell in a similar way is just to sabotage someone's sleep cycle. Just send endless amounts of squirrels, birds, and bugs to transmit yelling at the other party. Good luck getting a long rest when you have bugs shouting at you at least every ten minutes...
Originally Posted by krugaan
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2016-08-21, 08:00 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2015
Re: Animal Messenger (and how to use it wrong)
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2016-08-21, 08:20 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2015
Re: Animal Messenger (and how to use it wrong)
Originally Posted by krugaan
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2016-08-21, 08:30 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2015
Re: Animal Messenger (and how to use it wrong)
This is super sweet.
Pretty hard to rely on, though. "Hey boss, a buncha dumb snakes just slithered in the front gate." "Great. Inform the cooks."
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2016-08-21, 08:47 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2015
Re: Animal Messenger (and how to use it wrong)
If a party of level 3 adventurers can cause a wizard to retreat to his or her demi plane...
That wizard will be the laughing stock of the world.
Flying snakes don't slither, they fly.
Also if I don't think 106 - 426 flying snakes is going to be called "a bunch".
Side Note: I now want to set up a world were there is a cold war going on. Instead of nukes everyone is on edge about a snake-tsunami.
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2016-08-21, 08:58 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Dec 2015
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2016-08-21, 09:12 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2015
Re: Animal Messenger (and how to use it wrong)
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2016-08-21, 11:40 PM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2011
Re: Animal Messenger (and how to use it wrong)
That's an awesome and creative use of the spell, and perfectly legit for a Druid too, if the stakes are high enough (e.g. defiler of nature on the loose, etc. etc.). Worse comes to worse, he gets consent from the animals (via Speak with Animals) before he sends them.
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2016-08-22, 12:12 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Nov 2015
Re: Animal Messenger (and how to use it wrong)
2 issues:
1) the snakes are pretty weak, and ordinary lackeys (say, a thug) could easily 2v1 them. And any villain worth their salt will have a decent following occupying their base. Especially if said lackeys see them coming from 400ish feet away, which isn't a far stretch if there's hundreds of them flying in.
2) you need to have visited the location that you're sending a message to. sure a rogue can sneak in and out, but that's not the caster. It would have to be a plan B.Spoiler: bad tactics
I look at the lich and smirk a bit, as I bring myself back to my feet
"What are you smiling about?" it says
"hehe, it looks like you've made... a grave mistake :D"
the bard, actively bleeding out on the ground *ba-dum-tss*
"Ha! Nice try. Telling a bad joke to try to make your opponent drop their guard. Oldest trick in the book. Trust me, I was there."
*barbarian falling, sword in hands, from the top of the castle wall directly above the lich*
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2016-08-22, 01:14 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Mar 2005
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- 61.2° N, 149.9° W
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Re: Animal Messenger (and how to use it wrong)
Rabid vampire bats would do nicely. Yeah, they don't pose too much of a threat when they arrive since they'll just repeat the message, flutter around in a panic and leave. But they will be tired from the long flight so they won't go far, and that night they'll be hungry. You'll set off a rabies pandemic in the local mammal population, which is pretty dangerous in D&D land. Just a basic rabid dog is a deadly threat to a commoner.
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2016-08-22, 02:02 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2004
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- Arlington, TX, USA
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Re: Animal Messenger (and how to use it wrong)
-Christian
"You're thinking of the 'peace and love' monks across the valley. We're the 'law and order' monks."
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2016-08-22, 05:45 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2015
Re: Animal Messenger (and how to use it wrong)
All of this has been adressed.
1: 106 snakes would be released at once (106 x #PCs doing this). A single person (or small group) can't kill enough for them to stop take heavy damage.
1.a: They are being released at 2 am. Even with darkvision you have disadvantage on Perception checks (dim light). The snakes are being released at once from multiple directions.
2: You are going to the place, no problem, you are even releasing the snakes at said place.
***
In a bounded accuracy system such as 5e enough low CR creatures are still a threat for high CR creatures unless they have damage immunity.
Like taking out a dragon with a bunch of commoners.
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2016-08-22, 06:45 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2015
Re: Animal Messenger (and how to use it wrong)
The central problem is the assumption that they will attack. Also, windows.
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2016-08-22, 07:01 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2015
Re: Animal Messenger (and how to use it wrong)
If you assume they won't attack when not under the animal messenger spell then why assume they will attack PCs on sight?
PC walks into a cavery and there is three flying snakes... Do you roll initiative or do you say "what makes you think they will attack".
My answer to that question is that they are snakes. They attack because they are snakes.
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2016-08-22, 07:17 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2015
Re: Animal Messenger (and how to use it wrong)
Actually, no, I don't assume that beasts attack on sight. Beasts are usually the sort of obstacle that can be overcome in a variety of ways - avoiding them, fighting them, scaring them off, or having the Druid talk pretty to them.
If the PCs stumble into their nest, it's probably time for a fight. If they happen to see a flying snake hanging out in a nearby tree, they can either shoot it for supper or walk on by.
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2016-08-22, 07:23 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2015
Re: Animal Messenger (and how to use it wrong)
So you are at work and 106 - 424 snakes suddenly make their way into your building and just snek-tsunami and fill up the room... that all the people are going to be fine and not get bit?
I don't think snakes have a concept of home/not home and are pretty much just angry ropes.
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2016-08-22, 07:36 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2015
Re: Animal Messenger (and how to use it wrong)
If I'm at work, the snakes will slither (or fly) up to the exterior door, which will defeat them. Everyone will get up from their desks and gawk at the pile of snakes at the front door, and the security guard will presumably stop playing on his cell phone long enough to call animal control.
If the snakes did make it inside, most everyone would be standing on their desks, which should be enough to be safe from real snakes.
I'm really not criticizing this idea. I think it's great and fun. I just don't think it would actually do much. Most snakes only bite humans defensively.
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2016-08-22, 07:43 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Oct 2015
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2016-08-22, 08:53 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jun 2014
Re: Animal Messenger (and how to use it wrong)
Lots of problems with this...
By means of this spell, you use an animal to deliver a message.
Choose a Tiny beast you can see within range, such as a squirrel, a blue jay, or a bat.
So lets get a bunch ofPoisonous SnakesFlying Snakes... Like, a lot.
And if you are talking flying snakes... how do you manage to get within 30' and why are they sitting there for 10+ minutes while you ritual cast? Most are likely in fairly swampy, jungled, etc. areas. Is the campaign even set there?
Animal Messenger them while they are in their cage.
The spell lasts for 24 hours so we want to be close-ish to the enemy's lair. This could be an orc chieftain or maybe a politician...
"You specify a location, which you must have visited, and a recipient who matches a general description..."
Once they give the message... Well, they are going to be snakes. Snakes have one real option when startled, which with the mass panic that will be going on, which is bite the hell out of all living things.
Nor are they going to arrive over a long distance trip all at once -- even if you released 100+ animals over of a few minutes. Nor are mass numbers of such animals likely to make it miles without having attracted predators. Dogs, vultures, hawks, wolves, and pretty much anything in the area would be eating most of these.
Even if you DM ruled that the snakes are aggressive... and attack anyone near them, then they should be biting you when you let them out of their cages or when you are capturing them? If the spell makes them non-aggressive until they deliver their message... after the first few snakes arrive and get aggressive, why don't the enemy or villagers just club the snakes to death one-by-one as they are arriving at the village and before/during them delivering their message.
This would take some time to set up but I find it fun that a group of level 3 players could send (106 * N) snakes to an enemy. Or if you want to take out a town... NPC commoners are quite easy to kill after all.
A lot of these snakes are going to die, which is why this is very Druid. However with massive numbers comes massive casualties. Especially if you send these at night (2 or 3 AM) when most creatures will have disadvantage on seeing/attacking while the snakes have blindsight 10.
Whoever you sent these after is going to fricken die.
All the snakes are let loose at once.
Make sure to release snakes from different directions. No running away.
At DPR 8 that's still 848 points of damage per PC doing this. 4 x 848 = 3,392 per round.
If you think the snakes won't attack... Why would they attack an adventurer on sight but not anyone else? :p
I've met lots of tiny snakes. I find them in my backyard all the time. I pick them up and toss them into a nearby bush. They attack spiders. Even poisonous ones... you push away with a rake and they slither off.
Any good DM would see you nearly kills yourselves trying to collect the snakes -- both from being attacked by the snakes, or from random encounters in wilderness areas likely to have lots of poisonous snakes. Then spending vast amounts of time feeding, transporting, and caring for hundreds of snakes. Then, upon release... they go deliver their message and then fly/slither away. Probably summons hundreds of hawks, eagles, and other predators around the areas. A poor (or annoyed) DM who is willing to rule that 1' long snakes suddenly become aggressive lunatics... would immediately have them attack you upon release, or other animals or each other (most getting themselves killed).
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2016-08-22, 09:42 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Sep 2015
Re: Animal Messenger (and how to use it wrong)
See, I'm just going to respond to the first problem here.
(first see note 4)
You are saying that the creatures don't act like creatures after delivering the message. If you drop 100's of snakes into a room, would the snakes say "you know what, I delivered my message, lets go home".
No, because they are snakes. Snakes aren't thinking like that. They don't have the intelligence to think like that.
So you are already trying to make the creature not act like a creature.
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2016-08-22, 09:45 AM (ISO 8601)
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- Jul 2015
Re: Animal Messenger (and how to use it wrong)
That's exactly how snakes think, though - they would head for the safest place to get could find, ASAP. If they perceived a threat, such as someone in their way, yeah, they might bite him. But the vast majority of snakes don't seek out people to attack.
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2016-08-22, 09:59 AM (ISO 8601)
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