Best Way into Mindspy

[cupkeyk]

I am planning on going on mindspy for no reason other than the fact that Shanjakilar is sexy.

What is the best way into the class?

A. Doppelganger monster class + Urban Ranger 1 with Able Learner and Ability Focus
B. Changeling Urban Ranger with the City Slicker feat going into the Cabinet Trickster PRC before Mindspy and eventually Ability focus.

A is weaker than B but gets into the PRC sooner. A's Detect Thought DC is 12 + HD + Cha Modifier, while B's maxes out at 17 + Cha modifier, so A could be a powerful spy, while B is a more rounded skill monkey. *shrug*

I am also wondering if monster class levels count as levels for determining Ability DC's or if only his humanoid HD count. Ninuninu.

If I can get my DM to say yes, I could go cleric or bard, get craft wondrous item and create my own helm of telepathy, but I doubt that he would I agree to that and I would be totally wasting the full caster progression to get a mild melee fluffy ability.

[cupkeyk]

no takers?

a little input would truly be appreciated.

Thanks again.

[The_Snark]

I am planning on going on mindspy for no reason other than the fact that Shanjakilar is sexy.

What is the best way into the class?

A. Doppelganger monster class + Urban Ranger 1 with Able Learner and Ability Focus
B. Changeling Urban Ranger with the City Slicker feat going into the Cabinet Trickster PRC before Mindspy and eventually Ability focus.

A is weaker than B but gets into the PRC sooner. A's Detect Thought DC is 12 + HD + Cha Modifier, while B's maxes out at 17 + Cha modifier, so A could be a powerful spy, while B is a more rounded skill monkey. *shrug*

I am also wondering if monster class levels count as levels for determining Ability DC's or if only his humanoid HD count. Ninuninu.

If I can get my DM to say yes, I could go cleric or bard, get craft wondrous item and create my own helm of telepathy, but I doubt that he would I agree to that and I would be totally wasting the full caster progression to get a mild melee fluffy ability.

Only the monster HD count towards the saving throw DC of the doppelganger's ability, so your maximum DC there is actually 12+Cha modifier (+ Ability Focus). The second option is probably best.

If you want a really, really good spy, a succubus makes an excellent mindspy.

[cupkeyk]

But a succubus is ECL 12 with 6 outsider hitdice.. less room for customization...

and I don't have the succubus monster class progression (but I do for the doppelganger).

[Callix]

The changeling is the better build in almost all areas. But if you really want to be messing with people's minds, I favour the Beguiler or the Telepath (Psion). Both are full base classes that have very mind-focused abilities, and allow you a full casting/manifesting progression as well as mind control.

[ClericofPhwarrr]

The changeling is the better build in almost all areas. But if you really want to be messing with people's minds, I favour the Beguiler or the Telepath (Psion). Both are full base classes that have very mind-focused abilities, and allow you a full casting/manifesting progression as well as mind control.

Additionally, the Beguiler (PHB2) picture could be considered sexy.

And they are very very good.

[Stephen_E]

Warforged Artificer.
At 5th level you make yourself a Helm of Telepathy and weld it to your head.
(Require CL5 and Craft Wonderous item, and you have both at 5th level)

You have +3 BAB.

Concentration is a Class skill, so you can have 8 ranks of Concentration.

You have 2 "any" feats and one Artificer "bonus feat". You may want to use one of these to reduce the xp cost for item creation

edit - You'll need to take the Item creation feat to reduce the GP cost by 25%. Recommened 5th lev wealth is 9,000 - 13,000gp, and the Helm costs 13,500 to make. The feat reduces that to 10,125gp.

Stephen

[cupkeyk]

Oh, I would like to mention that I do not want to make a spellcaster. So no, not really, I don't want a beguiler and psionics isn't part of our games. I want a melle build with detect thoughts.

My issue with a Helm of telepathy is generally it's static save dc.

[God_of_Luck]

I think you can get in with Bard 4 or a changeling with levels in Cabinet Trickster.

[Stephen_E]

Oh, I would like to mention that I do not want to make a spellcaster. So no, not really, I don't want a beguiler and psionics isn't part of our games. I want a melle build with detect thoughts.

My issue with a Helm of telepathy is generally it's static save dc.

I was wondering why people were stressing the full caster stuff given that the Mind Spy is a combat PC. One of the Advantages of been a Warforged is that it's a decent combat race.

Re: Helm of Telepathy.
Actually there is no save given for the Detect Thoughts aspect of Helm of Telepathy. The save given is for attempts to make a suggestion. Given that it functions as a Detect Thoughts the GM might rule that the DC save to resist it would be 12+attribute bonus of user (Int for Artificer).
This would still have a limited DC, but lets be honest. I don't know of any telepathy that will give you save DC's that scale up any better.

You seem to be painting yourself into a corner. You need Telepathy but don't want to use Helm of Telepathy. This restricts you to naturally telepathic races, which TTBOMK require LA adj, which is generaly bad news, or caster types. If you're going caster types the best you can manage for hps (cruicial for a combat type) is the d6 for Artificers, Bards ecetre, or the d8 for Cleric/Druids, assuming you can find a spell on their list that meets the Mind Spy prereq requirements.

I think you're going to have to make a compromise somewhere.

Stephen

[The_Snark]

I was wondering why people were stressing the full caster stuff given that the Mind Spy is a combat PC. One of the Advantages of been a Warforged is that it's a decent combat race.

Re: Helm of Telepathy.
Actually there is no save given for the Detect Thoughts aspect of Helm of Telepathy. The save given is for attempts to make a suggestion. Given that it functions as a Detect Thoughts the GM might rule that the DC save to resist it would be 12+attribute bonus of user (Int for Artificer).
This would still have a limited DC, but lets be honest. I don't know of any telepathy that will give you save DC's that scale up any better.

Magic items always use the mimimum ability modifier that would be necessary to cast the spell; staves are the only exception. That's a flat DC 13, which is pretty bad.

However, full caster things aren't such a good idea either, because of the combat/noncombat problem and the limited use. If Cabinet Trickster gives unlimited use of Detect Thoughts, I' might go with that. If not, I'd go with the doppelganger.

Or the succubus, whose monster class is in Savage Species. The LA's a bit higher, but you have incredible Charisma and some spell-like abilities to take advantage of it. Plus flight, teleportation, etherealness, and shapechanging, all at will.