To Reach or not to Reach?

[Saph]

Reach weapons - Glaive, Guisarme, Longspear, Ranseur, etc. How good do you find them? Which classes are they best suited to?

I've always used non-reach melee weapons just because everyone else did. Just recently, though, I've started playing a Glaive-wielding Duskblade, and I've been amazed at how effective it is. At low levels, fighting enemies like kobolds, goblins, and orcs, getting a free attack on an enemy as he moves into range is huge. And at mid-levels, where practically every melee monster seems to have a natural reach of 10 feet or more, a reach weapon of your own stops you from getting AoO'ed every time you try to hit it back. What does everyone else think?

- Saph

[wormwood]

I think it's kinda funny that last week I rolled up a Glaive toting Duskblade. I haven't gotten to try it out yet, though.

[Dhavaer]

Glaive toting Duskblades everywhere, apparently.

I like them, particularly comboed with Improved/Superior Unarmed Strike.

[Skjaldbakka]

I think reach weapons rock, especially for the 'protect the squishies role' that a fighter-type is Supposed to fill. Reach + Stand Still can actually let you, y'know, STOP people.

[Tellah]

Glaive toting Duskblades everywhere, apparently.

I like them, particularly comboed with Improved/Superior Unarmed Strike.

Naw, just buy yourself some spiked gauntlets and save the feats.

[Saph]

Naw, just buy yourself some spiked gauntlets and save the feats.

I'm using just one spiked gauntlet. Leaves the other hand free for somatic components. Plus it looks cooler. :)

- Saph

[kjones]

Reach weapons work well with the Combat Reflexes feat. Otherwise, you can easily get swarmed by many small creatures after expending your one AoO to take out one of them; then, when they've filled every adjacent square, you're helpless. Make sure you have a backup weapon handy! (But really, who doesn't?)

[horseboy]

Reach weapons work well with the Combat Reflexes feat. Otherwise, you can easily get swarmed by many small creatures after expending your one AoO to take out one of them; then, when they've filled every adjacent square, you're helpless. Make sure you have a backup weapon handy! (But really, who doesn't?)

Short Haft helps with that. (PHBII)

[Falrin]

Or just drop the weapon as free action, pull out your second (a greatsword) as a move action and use your standard action to hit the thing with your only attack.

[Person_Man]

Generally, I always use a reach weapon whenever possible. In most cases, I end up getting a few extra attacks per combat, and with the right build, it also has huge combo potential.

I think the only exception might be when you're in a very crowded dungeon. But even then, you should just learn to keep space between the PCs.

[Shoyliguad]

An even deadlier combo is an ogre monk weilding that, no matter what you are still going to die, get a mage to cast enlarge person and I can't think of many things deadlier.

[Leon]

I like them, particularly comboed with Improved/Superior Unarmed Strike.

Im finding that combo to work quite well, My druid has (had) a Glaive and when i can hit it works quite well

Just have to save up for a Iron one so im not suffering any penalties

Superior Unarmed Strike is what i'll be taking at 6th level

[Dhavaer]

Naw, just buy yourself some spiked gauntlets and save the feats.

Bah, feats don't weigh anything and you always have them with you. Much better than gauntlets.

Edit: SUS gets better damage, as well.

[TheOOB]

Well, if you're going to use a feat to cover for your opponents too close to use your reach weapon, you might as well get a spiked chain, at least then your weapon enchantment applies agienst foes next to you.

[Leon]

Well, if you're going to use a feat to cover for your opponents too close to use your reach weapon, you might as well get a spiked chain, at least then your weapon enchantment applies agienst foes next to you.

Bah where's the fun in that.

[Hadrian_Emrys]

Bah where's the fun in that.

The joy of being able to reach out and touch people without the hassle of, you know, having to touch them.

Then there's that whole comfort in doing-what-has-been-tried-and-true-by-the-legions-before-you thing.

[ShneekeyTheLost]

Spiked Chain + Expansion/Enlarge Person = 20' of death and destruction. A must-have for any melee battlefield control build.

[Swooper]

An even deadlier combo is an ogre monk weilding that, no matter what you are still going to die, get a mage to cast enlarge person and I can't think of many things deadlier.

Enlarge person doesn't work on Ogres. See, ogres aren't "persons"

[Droodle]

Short Haft helps with that. (PHBII)

Shorten grip is even better. Rather than spending a swift action to change your grip (and losing the benefits of reach), shorten grip requires no action and allows you to attack adjacent squares without losing the benefit of reach. The only penalty is a -2 to hit. In my opinion, this feat is vastly superior to the spiked chain or the spiked gauntlet because the spiked chain is cheesy, has a poor critical threat range, and is easy to sunder and the spiked gauntlets are yet another thing for you to enchant. The other benefit of taking shorten grip instead of a spiked chain is that you can use it with any polearm.

[Sundog]

A scout with a Longspear is a useful combo. You can run around behind the meatshields stabbing past them at their opponents and getting Skirmish damage every round, but never having to tumble or avoid an AOO.

[Skyserpent]

A scout with a Longspear is a useful combo. You can run around behind the meatshields stabbing past them at their opponents and getting Skirmish damage every round, but never having to tumble or avoid an AOO.

You say that like the tumble check is hard... One can usually manage. Plus Scouts usually go the Spring Attack Route so they also get Mobility!

[Person_Man]

Shorten grip is even better. Rather than spending a swift action to change your grip (and losing the benefits of reach), shorten grip requires no action and allows you to attack adjacent squares without losing the benefit of reach. The only penalty is a -2 to hit. In my opinion, this feat is vastly superior to the spiked chain or the spiked gauntlet because the spiked chain is cheesy, has a poor critical threat range, and is easy to sunder and the spiked gauntlets are yet another thing for you to enchant. The other benefit of taking shorten grip instead of a spiked chain is that you can use it with any polearm.

Both feats are a waste. Just take a 5 ft. step back. If by some odd fluke you find that that's not an option, just delay until the end of the round and ask another party member to kill one of the people who's completely surrounding you (which they were probably going to do anyway).

[Dausuul]

Both feats are a waste. Just take a 5 ft. step back. If by some odd fluke you find that that's not an option, just delay until the end of the round and ask another party member to kill one of the people who's completely surrounding you (which they were probably going to do anyway).

Being completely surrounded is by no means the only time you might find yourself unable to take a 5-foot step back. You could be in a narrow corridor with one of your own party members behind you. You could be backed up against a wall, or into a corner, or on the edge of a cliff. You could be in difficult terrain, or stuck in a web spell. You could be planning to move after you make your attack.

I'm not saying Short Haft and Shorten Grip are necessarily worth spending a feat on, but they're not as useless as you make them out to be.

[Ikkitosen]

Just wear spiked armour. Heck you can even TWF with it if you must.

[Leon]

The joy of being able to reach out and touch people without the hassle of, you know, having to touch them.

Reach out and Touch is why you have a Glaive (or other Pole Arm), when they get close enough its time for a punch to the face - if its not something you wish to touch, 5ft away or draw another weapon

Then there's that whole comfort in doing-what-has-been-tried-and-true-by-the-legions-before-you thing.

Boring, there is no comfort in being one of a Herd of Chain brained Sheep

[Attilargh]

Just wear spiked armour. Heck you can even TWF with it if you must.

I think that in order to TWF with spiked armour, one would need a non-reach weapon.

For giggles, grab a greatsword, spiked armour and an animated shield. You can now be a sword-and-boarding two-handed two-weapon fighter.

[Tellah]

Both feats are a waste. Just take a 5 ft. step back. If by some odd fluke you find that that's not an option, just delay until the end of the round and ask another party member to kill one of the people who's completely surrounding you (which they were probably going to do anyway).

Well, it's not so much for attacking on your own turn as for getting attacks of opportunity, the way I see it.

[KBF]

For giggles, grab a greatsword, spiked armour and an animated shield. You can now be a sword-and-boarding two-handed two-weapon fighter.

I don't see it.

[Arbitrarity]

Enlarge person doesn't work on Ogres. See, ogres aren't "persons"

Ogres have feelings to!

You can TWF with a weapon and armour spikes, and you can use an animated shield.

So: Right hand: Greatsword, left hand: greatsword, body, spiked armour, flying around somewhere, animated shield. So you TWF with the greatsword and armour, while THF'ing the greatsword, and using a shield.

Ok, best one ever: Thrikreen Multiweapon fighting with 2 gythka, spiked armour, and an animated bashing spiked shield! Not sure about the legality of the shield, but the text on animated says "As if you were wearing it yourself"

[Lolth]

Mechanically, Reach weapons are made of win in most cases (nasty buggers getting inside them being the only real pain, unless you use Spiked Chains which I loathe), and I tend to combine them with spiked armor for those cases.

On the other hand, I tend to be disturbingly "over-realistic" about my PCs in the sense that, as we're set largely in a city (in our chat) dragging a big long weapon around streets, taverns, etc., just strikes me as being a pain in the bootie. Not one rule to back that, I just feel silly doing it. If I had one of those Gauntlets of Holding a Weapon in an Extradimensional Space (forget the name off-hand) on the other hand...