Am I Beguiled?

[lotofsnow]

This week I will finally (hopefully) start playing in a new Eberron-based campaign. Starting level is 2, and the campaign should only run to about level 9, so I'm more concerned with early usefulness than level 20 optimization. Level adjustments up to +2 are allowed(giving you an ECL 3 character if you choose).

The group makeup, as I understand it, is: Druid, Sorceress, Gambler (home brewed class that relies on improvised weapons and luck bonuses), Fighter, Cleric, and Beguiler, played by your's truly.

My plan is to serve has scout, skill monkey, and battlefield control, while staying out of melee as much as possible (I will probably only use "Surprise Casting" if absolutely necessary).

If you have a second, I'd appreciate it if you would take a look and PEACH what I have so far. Thank you in advance.

Let me introduce you to Cadfan "Lot" Gottfrid, Dark Whisper Gnome Beguiler Extraordinaire (i.e. level 1). That's Dark as in Dark Creature from "Tome of Magic."

My stats, adjustments applied for race and age for your convenience, are:

Str: 10; Dex: 18; Con: 16; Int: 19; Wis: 14; Cha: 13

My feats: Spellcasting Prodigy (the Dragonlance version), Spell Focus (Illusion), and Improved Initiative.
My flaws: Non-Combatent (-2 to melee attack rolls) and Jinxed (a flaw found online; DM forces me to reroll 1 successful die roll per day).
My trait: Quick (+10 to movement, -1hp/lvl).

Some interesting(i.e. important) facts about my character:
- Initiative +8 (+4 Dex and Improved Initiative feat)
- Speed 50 (30 race + 10 dark creature + 10 trait)
- Hide skill modifier = +24 (+4 size, +4 race, +8 dark creature, +4 Dex, +4 ranks)
- Move Silently skill modifier = +18 (+4 race, +6 dark creature, +4 Dex, +4 ranks)
- Level 1 Illusion Spell DC = 17
- HP = 8 (not great, but I don't intend to be in melee much if I can avoid it)
- AC = 18 (+1 size, +4 Dex, +3 armor)
- 10 Cold Resistance (Dark Creature template)
- Hide in Plain Sight (Dark Creature template)

So... what do you think about this for a start?

P.S. For books, my group has the Completes(except Champion), Races of X, Core, PHB2, and Eberron books. If there is something special in another book, let me know and I'll see if one of my friends has it.

P.P.S. Here is my character sheet for your viewing pleasure.

[Seffbasilisk]

Seems solid, I'd boost escape artist, but that's just me.

Why holy water?

[lotofsnow]

Seems solid, I'd boost escape artist, but that's just me.

Why holy water?

Escape Artist you say? Hmm... maybe I'll take those random two points I have in Spellcraft (seeing as we have a Sorc who will probably put ranks in it) and toss them there.

The holy water was just a random item I grabbed. The DM said something about a "mysterious graveyard," so I picked up some anti-undead juice. Maybe I should just drop it and grab a couple of clubs to throw.

[PinkysBrain]

You will have trouble in the daytime ... do you have to fill the rogue roll? Warlock would suit you better, never short of darkness (or a ranged attack).

[Seffbasilisk]

Hide in plain sight means he doesn't need shadows or things to hide behind. (and is an AWESOME ability)

And WHY are you suggesting WARLOCK when he wants to play a Beguiler? Total disparity.

I'm assuming he's going for a roguish character, aiming to try out beguiler, and dance around fights instead of just being an eldrich archer.

Also, I'd advice boosting bluff up that one more point. High bluff is useful when you don't want to fight, yet are in a sticky situation with people capable of thinking.

[lotofsnow]

You will have trouble in the daytime ... do you have to fill the rogue roll? Warlock would suit you better, never short of darkness (or a ranged attack).

I know what you're saying, but, during daylight, I only really lose +8 to my hide, +6 to move silently, and Hide in Plain Sight (who has that at level 2 anyway?).

My daytime Hide will be +16 and Move Silently +12. Not too shabby.

I do have to fill the rogue role. I believe my DM's words when I expressed interest in Beguiler were "They have Trapfinding and Disable Device, right?"

[lotofsnow]

Hide in plain sight means he doesn't need shadows or things to hide behind. (and is an AWESOME ability)

And WHY are you suggesting WARLOCK when he wants to play a Beguiler? Total disparity.

I'm assuming he's going for a roguish character, aiming to try out beguiler, and dance around fights instead of just being an eldrich archer.

Also, I'd advice boosting bluff up that one more point. High bluff is useful when you don't want to fight, yet are in a sticky situation with people capable of thinking.

Hehe... truer words have ne're been said.

Hide in Plain Sight can't actually be used in daylight, but that's fine. I won't suffer much without it. Put me in a dungeon though, and I'm practically invisible.

I don't think I can boost Bluff, can I? I'm not entirely sure how the skill ranks work with LA. Am I considered to be Level 2 so I can have 5 ranks in each class skill?

[Arbitrarity]

LA doesn't affect ranks at all. Basically, take character level from your HD, then after determining level based stuff (feats, skill ranks), add the LA to your ECL.

[lotofsnow]

LA doesn't affect ranks at all. Basically, take character level from your HD, then after determining level based stuff (feats, skill ranks), add the LA to your ECL.

Ok, that's what I thought. So I have 1HD, which means my max skill rank is 4.

[Seffbasilisk]

My mistake, I saw 2, assumed beguiler level 2...

[Renx]

What's your 2nd level in?

[lotofsnow]

What's your 2nd level in?

I don't have a second level. My character has the Dark Creature template, which is +1 LA. I'm a level 1 Beguiler, which makes my ECL 2.

[Behold_the_Void]

What's your 2nd level in?

He has a +1 LA template.

Looks fine to me.

[Renx]

Also, you might want to consider Improved Counterspell. I'm not much of a walking D&D dictionary, but counterspelling at low levels can really hinder your opponent. Also, you can play it off as a spell resistance thing, so your rivals and BBEGs will be trying to go around that rather than the actual thing.

However, I'm not really sure about beguilers' spellcasting, so it might not be that good. If you get your DM to agree, you might be able to use your racial abilities for counterspelling. That'd be what... 2-3 1st level and 1 2nd?

/* Edit1:

He has a +1 LA template.
Looks fine to me.

Ah, sorry. Got confused with the 'up to ECL 3 if you choose'.
*/

[lotofsnow]

Ah, sorry. Got confused with the 'up to ECL 3 if you choose'.

Oh, I see what you mean. Yeah, the ECL 3 only applies if you take a +2 LA. Sorry, that was probably too much information in my introduction and easily confusing.

Regarding Counterspelling... that might actually be a good idea. It would require me to put ranks back into Spellcraft, but that's not a big deal.

Here's my thought on that... a Beguiler's spell list is pretty limited in scope. Widely known spells, such as Magic Missile, aren't even on there and you need to know the spell in oder to counter it (or, in some cases, know a spell with the opposite effect). I'd like to think that with a speed of 50 and maxed ranks in Tumble, I could probably close on a spellcaster and at least attempt to interrupt anything they try to cast if not take them out of the fight for a while with Color Spray or Sleep.

Once I get Dispel Magic though, you can bet your bottom dollar I'll be Counterspelling away ... something I might not have thought of if you hadn't reminded me. So, thanks!

[Renx]

Oh, I see what you mean. Yeah, the ECL 3 only applies if you take a +2 LA. Sorry, that was probably too much information in my introduction and easily confusing.

NP. I confuse easily.

Regarding Counterspelling... that might actually be a good idea. It would require me to put ranks back into Spellcraft, but that's not a big deal.
*snip*

Once I get Dispel Magic though, you can bet your bottom dollar I'll be Counterspelling away ... something I might not have thought of if you hadn't reminded me. So, thanks!

Try Improved Counterspell. You only have to recognize the school of the spell, and can use a spell slot one level lower than the actual spell. Then reactive counterspell, so no need to ready an action for it :P If you decide to build something around it, you might want to get your DM to go along with the 'counterspelling with spell-like abilities'.

[lotofsnow]

Then reactive counterspell...

That feat sounds nice... what book is it from?

[Renx]

That feat sounds nice... what book is it from?

Players' guide to Faerûn. Requires improved counterspell and improved initiative, however. I guess you don't have enough levels in the story to get it. :/ You could always try to get it approved. Some DMs love little stuff like that.

[ClericofPhwarrr]

Aww, you took one of my favorite classes and mixed it with one of my favorite races . The Dark template looks like a very nice touch and compliments both the Whispergnome and the Beguiler.

Looks like a good, solid build. Counterspelling (as has been recently mentioned) works pretty well with the Beguiler's oodles of spells. Personally, I prefer a more active approach than the defensive one, but it should buy your party the time needed against enemy casters.

Here is a very well written Beguiler Handbook on the Wizard's optimization boards. You might give it a look for future levels.

[lotofsnow]

I don't think I'll be able use anything from Forgotten Realms since none of us have the books. I'll ask about using my special abilities as counterspells instead though.

I think I'll drop Spell Focus (Illusion) and pick up Improved Counterspell. With +5 DC modifiers, my spells are difficult to resist as it is, the Spell Focus was just gravy. I've played with this group many times and I don't think anyone has ever tried to Counterspell. I can't wait to see the look on their faces when I "ready an action to counterspell the wizard." You're gonna do who to the whatnow?

Any tips on which skill to take points from to invest into Spellcraft? I have 2 points in the cc skill, Intimidate, as I intend to take a level in Mindbender. I could take those out and gain two ranks in Spellcraft and just hope for good rolls. I could sacrifice two points out of Hide as well, giving me a +22 Hide modifier... nothing to scoff at. I dunno though. Suggestions?

I'm very familiar with the Handbook to Being a Strong Beguiler. I posted in there a couple of times when I was still working out the details for this build. I love it.

[ClericofPhwarrr]

Any tips on which skill to take points from to invest into Spellcraft? I have 2 points in the cc skill, Intimidate, as I intend to take a level in Mindbender. I could take those out and gain two ranks in Spellcraft and just hope for good rolls. I could sacrifice two points out of Hide as well, giving me a +22 Hide modifier... nothing to scoff at. I dunno though. Suggestions?

Since your Hide modifier is so high, those extra 2 points are more overkill at this level than anything (someone with a +0 Wis modifier and no Spot ranks can't even try rolling to see you. Well, they can, but they'll fail no matter what. Hello, flatfooted DC bonus!). Lose them right now, then bring your Hide ranks back as soon as you can.

What I think I love most about your build is that in shadow he has Hide in Plain Sight, while if he has to hide in bright light, Invisibility is just a 2nd level spell away (of which you'll have lots). About the only time people can see you (when you don't want to be seen, anyway) is in a non-shadowy area with True Seeing. (Glitterdust or Fairie Fire would work as well, but they'd have to know you were there first.)

[lotofsnow]

Since your Hide modifier is so high, those extra 2 points are more overkill at this level than anything (someone with a +0 Wis modifier and no Spot ranks can't even try rolling to see you. Well, they can, but they'll fail no matter what. Hello, flatfooted DC bonus!). Lose them right now, then bring your Hide ranks back as soon as you can.

I never even thought about it that way. I'll make that change now.

What I think I love most about your build is that in shadow he has Hide in Plain Sight, while if he has to hide in bright light, Invisibility is just a 2nd level spell away (of which you'll have lots). About the only time people can see you (when you don't want to be seen, anyway) is in a non-shadowy area with True Seeing. (Glitterdust or Fairie Fire would work as well, but they'd have to know you were there first.)

Thanks. My thought process consisted of figuring out how best to make use of Cloaked Casting. Surprise Casting is pointless until you can do it as a Move action. I think Wizards really dropped the ball by giving Beguilers a "class feature" that anyone can do regardless of class. I decided to ignore it altogether and maybe use it only if it is really needed. Even with Improved Feint and a reach weapon, I'm only a five foot step away from a full attack if I try to Feint. Now, with a gem like Hide in Plain Sight for a measly +1 LA, unless I'm in broad daylight, I'll be getting +1 DCs all the time.

[Galathir]

Spell Focus (Enchantment) might be a solid choice. With your enchantment spells you can prevent a lot of fights before they even start. Of course you could always pick that up later as your begining enchantment spells probably aren't all that great. I would pick it up instead of Spell Focus (Illusion) anyway. I recently played a Beguiler and while he was level 10-15 during the campaign I found enchatment spells MUCH more useful than illusions, though the odd illusion did come in handy on occasion.

Unsettling Enchantment (I believe it's from Complete Mage) would also be a solid choice though as I don't have my books I don't know what the pre reqs are. Other than that, I don't see any problems. Good luck.

[CockroachTeaParty]

You sir, are beguiled. And you'll never look back.

I'm playing a beguiler in my RL campaign, and let me tell you, it's a blast. Try not to steal the spotlight too much with your clever spells, razor sharp wit, and tricks up every sleeve.

While I play a humble human with no templates, I'm sure the added abilities of whisper gnomes and shadow creatures will be of great use. Just exercise caution early on, as a well placed battleaxe to the face will take you down pretty quickly. But once you've got a few levels under your belt, there should be no reason that battleaxe guy even knows you're there.

[Thinker]

As far as power goes you'd be better off with class levels over templates, LA, or HD. The beguiler is a caster so you lose out on both spell-level and caster level. Pumping the Intelligence is a good idea for saves, but personally I'd rather have the higher DC's associated with higher spell-levels and the more powerful spells. Just hope your DM doesn't through too many mindless creatures at you.

On a side note, the character is fairly flavorful. If you have fun playing it, go for it. What is the rest of your group's races? If everyone plays an LA race you won't feel overshadowed, but as a group may not be able to stand up to challenges appropriate for your ECL.

[lotofsnow]

As far as power goes you'd be better off with class levels over templates, LA, or HD. The beguiler is a caster so you lose out on both spell-level and caster level. Pumping the Intelligence is a good idea for saves, but personally I'd rather have the higher DC's associated with higher spell-levels and the more powerful spells. Just hope your DM doesn't through too many mindless creatures at you.

On a side note, the character is fairly flavorful. If you have fun playing it, go for it. What is the rest of your group's races? If everyone plays an LA race you won't feel overshadowed, but as a group may not be able to stand up to challenges appropriate for your ECL.

Since our campaign is only going to 9th level, I weighed the pros and cons of an 8th level caster against a 9th level caster. For Beguiler casting progression, I don't really miss out on much. I'll still be able to cast 4th level spells at ECL 9, just not as many as I would had I gone full Beguiler. Mindless creatures are an issue with any Beguiler, and I understood that when I chose the class. I'm not a 1-man team though. I'll have the various abilities of the 5 other classes backing me up.

I'm not sure of any of the other players' races. As far as I know, no one else has an LA, so they'll all be 2nd level in their respective classes. Are there monsters that can one-shot me? There sure are. However, level 1 Wizards have been avoiding them for decades, hopefully I can, too.

[ClericofPhwarrr]

Actually, this looks like one of the better Level Adjustments you could take for the Beguiler, if you're planning on taking one. The template meshes very well with the class, and getting the whispergnome bonuses is practically just icing on the cake.

[Ramza00]

Actually, this looks like one of the better Level Adjustments you could take for the Beguiler, if you're planning on taking one. The template meshes very well with the class, and getting the whispergnome bonuses is practically just icing on the cake.

It is one of the best level adjustments in the game. Especially with LA buyoff. Though getting it via an item for 10 mins a day for 10,800 gp or continuous always on benefits for 22,000 gp makes the LA look less special.

[Nebo_]

Hide in plain sight means he doesn't need shadows or things to hide behind. (and is an AWESOME ability)

Actually, that's not how it works. It means you can hide while being observed, you still need some sort of concealment to hide.

[Ramza00]

Actually, that's not how it works. It means you can hide while being observed, you still need some sort of concealment to hide.

Isn't each version of Hide in Plain Sight a little different? The text for each ability is not the same. Thus the ranger one is different than the dark creature which is different from some monster's entry's.