What monster would you use to pull a train between cities?

[Hawksteel]

Eberron has the lightning rails, but what about if there was more of an attempt to domesticate monsters through magical means to perform some physical labour?

In this instance pulling trains between large cities. What would be a good choice for this?

[Jay R]

Eberron has the lightning rails, but what about if there was more of an attempt to domesticate monsters through magical means to perform some physical labour?

In this instance pulling trains between large cities. What would be a good choice for this?

I would use iron golems, made for this specific purpose, in the shape of horses.

[Cluedrew]

To pull the train? Anything large, land based and with multiple legs should do.

Or you could drop the train on top of a giant centipede, because why not?

[Kelb_Panthera]

Gargantuan animated object shaped very much ilke a train engine. It's just way too much easier than anything with an intellligence score or that has the predatory instincts of most vermin. A skeletal or zombified (well preserved, of course) version of some huge or gargantuan creature of monstrous strength could also work.

Honestly though, if you're working with dray creatures of any kind, you're generally better off with wagons or howdahs because they're simply not going to be powerful enough to pull full-length trains and if you're only pulling two or three carts, at most, there's no good reason to lay track when simple roads are adequate.

There's a reason there were no trains before the steam engine.

[Yukitsu]

I like using effigies of those wheel lions stuck together and connected to a geared axle.

[Kelb_Panthera]

I like using effigies of those wheel lions stuck together and connected to a geared axle.

Tome of Magic's roving mauler?

[Yukitsu]

Tome of Magic's roving mauler?

Yeah, that one.

[Mechalich]

It might make more sense to just animate the train, car by car. A single train car counts as a Gargantuan object, meaning a 16th level wizard could do it. After that it's just a matter of permanency and synchronizing your orders and you have a train that runs forever without any power source. Since gargantuan animated objects have strength 24 and a rail car surely qualifies as a quadruped each car can drag 42000 lbs (which is about what a modern commercial truck hauls, though it's light for a rail car).

Such a train wouldn't go especially fast - wheeled gargantuan animated objects have a spd of 50 ft. - only about 5.5 mph, but it could run 24 hours a day, allowing to make about 130 miles per day, which is very respectable.

[Mutazoia]

It might make more sense to just animate the train, car by car. A single train car counts as a Gargantuan object, meaning a 16th level wizard could do it. After that it's just a matter of permanency and synchronizing your orders and you have a train that runs forever without any power source. Since gargantuan animated objects have strength 24 and a rail car surely qualifies as a quadruped each car can drag 42000 lbs (which is about what a modern commercial truck hauls, though it's light for a rail car).

Such a train wouldn't go especially fast - wheeled gargantuan animated objects have a spd of 50 ft. - only about 5.5 mph, but it could run 24 hours a day, allowing to make about 130 miles per day, which is very respectable.

Technically, you could get off a lot cheaper by using an actual steam engine. Replace the coal fired furnace with a gate to the elemental plain of fire, and fill the boiler with water from an decanter of endless water, and boom, a steam train that runs forever.

[Storm_Of_Snow]

Technically, you could get off a lot cheaper by using an actual steam engine. Replace the coal fired furnace with a gate to the elemental plain of fire, and fill the boiler with water from an decanter of endless water, and boom, a steam train that runs forever.

So long as your metallurgy's good enough to make something that will contain the pressure...

[Mutazoia]

So long as your metallurgy's good enough to make something that will contain the pressure...

If your metallurgy's good enough to build a rail system, I think its good enough to handle a simple boiler/steam engine. If you're that paranoid, just us a mono-tube boiler, that way any failure in containment would simply dump all the water on the ground, instead of going boom.

Besides, steam trains have multiple pressure release systems, from the steam whistle to simple release vents. Which is why, when you see a steam train in the station, there is always steam puffing out from under the locomotive, or blasting out every now and then. (Those vents are pointed at the ground, so people on the platforms don't get flash roasted.)

[hymer]

So long as your metallurgy's good enough to make something that will contain the pressure...

It all adds to the fun!

Anyway, I'd think that if you get some high speeds, you could get some use of an air elemental, which would sit at the front end of the train and reduce wind resistance during travel.

[Mutazoia]

It all adds to the fun!

Anyway, I'd think that if you get some high speeds, you could get some use of an air elemental, which would sit at the front end of the train and reduce wind resistance during travel.

That would probably work better if you were setting up a subway system ala the 1869 New York pneumatic trainsit system, only using a vacuum tube, like they use at bank drive up teller kiosks. The enclosed tubes would make regulating the airpresser/airflow easier than it would out in the open.

[Hawksteel]

Thank you, those are all excellent suggestions.

[Storm_Of_Snow]

If your metallurgy's good enough to build a rail system, I think its good enough to handle a simple boiler/steam engine.

Early tracks used wood, and you need much better quality metal and production processes for steam pipes (especially if you want the entire thing light enough to get appreciable tractive effort) than the rails they run on (which are bulk extruded as white-hot beams and then rolled into shape in massive mills while cooling).

People died trying to get that right. And, lest we forget, we're talking a standard pseudo-medieval D&D world, where pretty much anyone with any kind of interest in materials science is trying to turn lead into gold, not Georgian/Victorian Europe where steam boilers for powering mine pumps are well known things that have been around for over 100 years, and there's centuries of experience with producing metals and pressure resistant structures for things like cannons and handguns.

If you're that paranoid, just us a mono-tube boiler, that way any failure in containment would simply dump all the water on the ground, instead of going boom.

No, sorry, but it's going boom - might not be that big if you're not using superheaters, but it won't "dump all the water on the ground". Rocket's boiler pressure was 50 psi (300 kPA, or near enough three times atmospheric pressure), Tornado's is 250 psi and the Big Boy class were at 300 psi.

At the very least, the crew are getting boiled.

Besides, steam trains have multiple pressure release systems, from the steam whistle to simple release vents. Which is why, when you see a steam train in the station, there is always steam puffing out from under the locomotive, or blasting out every now and then. (Those vents are pointed at the ground, so people on the platforms don't get flash roasted.)

The pressure release is a valve on top of the boiler - the "vents" are the exhausts for the pistons (plus you have sand pipes next to the wheels for traction), and if you're relying on the whistle to relieve pressure, you're going to be hanging off it for a long time.

As for the rest, I suspect I've seen a lot more steam engines than you have, because there's never steam "puffing" or "blasting" out from underneath when it's stationary - while there's always some venting and leakage, the fireman will have timed his firing so that the steam pressure is reducing on the way into the platform, and building it up again ready to pull out, and back in the days of steam power, there were regulations about excessive smoke production (even before things like the clean air act) or releasing steam pressure while in the station.

[Mutazoia]

Early tracks used wood, and you need much better quality metal and production processes for steam pipes (especially if you want the entire thing light enough to get appreciable tractive effort) than the rails they run on (which are bulk extruded as white-hot beams and then rolled into shape in massive mills while cooling).

People died trying to get that right. And, lest we forget, we're talking a standard pseudo-medieval D&D world, where pretty much anyone with any kind of interest in materials science is trying to turn lead into gold,

...where we also have dwarves, who work metal that is light as cloth but stronger than normal steel, and magic that can alter the properties of basic materials through enchantments....

The pressure release is a valve on top of the boiler - the "vents" are the exhausts for the pistons (plus you have sand pipes next to the wheels for traction), and if you're relying on the whistle to relieve pressure, you're going to be hanging off it for a long time.

...Which is why I said "Such as"...not "Only the whistle".

As for the rest, I suspect I've seen a lot more steam engines than you have, because there's never steam "puffing" or "blasting" out from underneath when it's stationary

Really? Hmmm...I could have sworn I saw some actualy evidence to the contrary.....

Spoiler: No steam while stationary?

Show

But all of this is besides the point, as it doesn't really apply in a fantasy setting, now does it?

[Stealth Marmot]

Bulette.

Huge size, quadriped (increases max load including pull/drag ability), 27 strength, Can drag over 30,000 pounds, and that's under "normal" conditions. Assuming that means without wheels, you can double that with wheels, so the bullete can drag over 60,000 pounds or over 30 tons. Doesn't have any ranged attacks, breath attacks, venom, or any sort of special attacks at all besides biting. It can burrow, which means it has the ability to use its head and claws to chew through obstacles, meaning it could get through things blocking the rails with ease so long as it was trained properly. Int of 2, meaning it is not too intelligent to be trained. Land speed is 40 feet, which is not too fast, but could possibly be given enchanted bridles or other enchantments to increase the speed. It has low light vision, darkvision to 60 feet and even tremorsense, so it can pull and work in any sort of light condition or even underground.

[GloatingSwine]

Really? Hmmm...I could have sworn I saw some actualy evidence to the contrary.....

Spoiler: No steam while stationary?

Show

But all of this is besides the point, as it doesn't really apply in a fantasy setting, now does it?

The title of that video should have given you a clue that the train was pulling out of the station (ie steam pressure has built up almost to its highest point and they're just about to try getting some work out of it).

Steam trains that are stationary at a platform vent minimal amounts of steam.

...where we also have dwarves, who work metal that is light as cloth but stronger than normal steel, and magic that can alter the properties of basic materials through enchantments....

Which is true, but also changes the whole face of your fantasy world into, well, the Industrial Revolution and what you're now playing is steampunk fantasy.

[Jay R]

I would much prefer a magical looking approach to a steam engine. That's why I suggested iron horses - golems in the shape of horses.

[Max_Killjoy]

Which is true, but also changes the whole face of your fantasy world into, well, the Industrial Revolution and what you're now playing is steampunk fantasy.

If your fantasy setting has trains, you've already diverged into the realm of "build world from scratch, this isn't history".

[Segev]

Personally, I'd use haunt shift (from Libris Mortis) to create possessed train cars and have them mimic animated objects for me that way.

[Gravitron5000]

Bulette.

Huge size, quadriped (increases max load including pull/drag ability), 27 strength, Can drag over 30,000 pounds, and that's under "normal" conditions. Assuming that means without wheels, you can double that with wheels, so the bullete can drag over 60,000 pounds or over 30 tons. Doesn't have any ranged attacks, breath attacks, venom, or any sort of special attacks at all besides biting. It can burrow, which means it has the ability to use its head and claws to chew through obstacles, meaning it could get through things blocking the rails with ease so long as it was trained properly. Int of 2, meaning it is not too intelligent to be trained. Land speed is 40 feet, which is not too fast, but could possibly be given enchanted bridles or other enchantments to increase the speed. It has low light vision, darkvision to 60 feet and even tremorsense, so it can pull and work in any sort of light condition or even underground.

More importantly, you get to refer to it as a bulette train. Just make sure to train your buletes.

[DigoDragon]

I would much prefer a magical looking approach to a steam engine. That's why I suggested iron horses - golems in the shape of horses.

I'd support this. In a high fantasy world where golems never tire out and can run endlessly, it would make sense.

Then you have train robbing wizards who develop anti-magical traps that disable them, and there's a plot hook for an adventure.

[Segev]

More importantly, you get to refer to it as a bulette train. Just make sure to train your buletes.

And if you do, bulette for you!

You may want to consider, however, whether the bulette should be pulling it above-ground, or burrowing. Different considerations for training and track design are involved in each.

[Max_Killjoy]

More importantly, you get to refer to it as a bulette train. Just make sure to train your buletes.

You have won One Internet.

Your prize is in the mail.

[Stealth Marmot]

More importantly, you get to refer to it as a bulette train. Just make sure to train your buletes.

HOW did I miss that pun? Well done sir.

[CharonsHelper]

Such a train wouldn't go especially fast - wheeled gargantuan animated objects have a spd of 50 ft. - only about 5.5 mph, but it could run 24 hours a day, allowing to make about 130 miles per day, which is very respectable.

I think that it'd be faster than that. Why couldn't it run? (Maybe I'm missing something.) If it can run, it could run 24hrs a day. With x4 movement (200ft per 6 seconds) that'd be 2,000ft per minute, which is just over 22.7mph, though it would slow to half speed around turns. It could go 28.41mph if it took the Run feat. And that's before you gave it magic gear to boost speed. (With how much it cost to make in the first place, it'd be worth spending extra to make it faster.)

[GloatingSwine]

If your fantasy setting has trains, you've already diverged into the realm of "build world from scratch, this isn't history".

True, but explanations like "dwarf-made steam boilers running on magically induced portals to planes of fire and water, driven by engineer-sorcerers who vary the size and intensity of the planar portals to build and control steam" implies greater than usual for fantasy levels of societal interconnectedness and specialisation. It takes multiple specialists in different places to build and operate these things.

If you want steam engines, you get an industrial revolution as a side effect. In a way that carts on rails pulled by trained animals that are bigger than anything we could have built in real life does not.

[Mutazoia]

True, but explanations like "dwarf-made steam boilers running on magically induced portals to planes of fire and water, driven by engineer-sorcerers who vary the size and intensity of the planar portals to build and control steam" implies greater than usual for fantasy levels of societal interconnectedness and specialisation. It takes multiple specialists in different places to build and operate these things.

If you want steam engines, you get an industrial revolution as a side effect. In a way that carts on rails pulled by trained animals that are bigger than anything we could have built in real life does not.

You wouldn't have to vary the size of the portal, you use safety valves to adjust steam pressure. Unless you want to use a portal to the para-elemental plane of steam and cut out the middle man. But even then, you could create a custom magic item, similar to an eversmoking bottle, or a decanter of endless water...just have a decanter of endless steam that, like the endless water version, can have it's flow rate controlled more or less at will, regardless of magical skill or training.

But then you could always skip the mechanical method altogether and just crib a bit off the old "helms" from Spelljammer. No mechanical bits needed at all. And best part, you still don't have to train and feed live creatures that are prone to panic attacks or being eaten by something else.

[Stealth Marmot]

I think that it'd be faster than that. Why couldn't it run? (Maybe I'm missing something.) If it can run, it could run 24hrs a day. With x4 movement (200ft per 6 seconds) that'd be 2,000ft per minute, which is just over 22.7mph, though it would slow to half speed around turns. It could go 28.41mph if it took the Run feat. And that's before you gave it magic gear to boost speed. (With how much it cost to make in the first place, it'd be worth spending extra to make it faster.)

The movement rules specifically talk about how you cannot constantly run. You can force the creature to hustle for multiple hours, but you end up doing actual lethal damage to the creature. Granted, a bullete can take a lot of damage, but eventually that damage needs to heal. They could hustle straight for 6 hours, and would literally die of exhaustion after the 7th.

Overland movement is how long term movement is normally handled. The bullete could drag the train for 8 hours without trouble, but after that they go into forced march status. Being a mount they automatically fail their check and take d6 lethal damage every hour past 8. Because they regen 9 hit points (9 hit die creature) from a full nights sleep, they could go for 9 or 10 hours a day without much issue, but bear in mind the moment they take that damage they are fatigued, and their strength drops by 2, and so would their carrying capacity.

If instead you want to increase the creature's speed, just have a custom item that is a Horsehoes of Speed but wearable for a bullete. Considering the cost of raising and training a bullete, the custom item would not be out of the question. +30 movement speed, total 70 movement speed, that is faster than an unenhanced light horse' overland movement speed. Also, items that increase strength or carrying capacity could help them pull a larger train.

Worth noting that the creature's speed would be hampered by a medium or heavy load, but that's inevitable.