Class and Level Geekery

[Runolfr]

This is just a place to generally blabber about the class, level, ability scores, and other technical details of the OotS and their enemies. Feel free try to develop a full character sheet for each one if you want.

[Runolfr]

Miko: Minimum Monk level = 2. Minimum Paladin level = 5.

Vaarsuvius: Minimum Wizard level = 11, probably 12. Has an Intelligence score of 18 according to a OotS #31.

Elan: Known to have Charisma 18 since OotS #28.

Belkar: Believed to have taken at least one level of Barbarian since OotS #133. Belkar may soon fall behind the rest of the party in level, since he should be suffering an experience penalty due to the gap between his Ranger level and his Barbarian level.

[Kish]

Haley: Better Hide skill total than Belkar before entering the Dungeon of Dorukan (from the book).

Roy is established Lawful Good, Belkar is something evil (confirmed by the author as well as obvious from his actions), Elan is something good.

(This thread has quite a bit of overlap with The Place for Over-Analysis, doesn't it?)

[Malachi, the Lich King]

Well, Roy is obviously a minimum of 4th level in fighter since he mentions having weapon specialization in one of the strips. Durkon cast righteous might in the battle against Xykon so he's a minimum of 9th level cleric.

I believe it was established that Elan was chaotic good to oppose Nale who is lawful evil.

[The Demented One]

Durkon's at least level 11, since he has cast heal.

Vaarsuvias, having pretty much killed a dragon singlehandedly, is probably a level ahead of the party.

If his constant "Verb, verb, verb, verb the adjective noun"ing actually counts as bardic music (doubtful), Elan's probably blown a few feats on Extra Music.

[Poeir]

First part's copied and pasted from "She's a... Paladin?"
Vaarsuvius' spellbook includes:
Cast (or at least definitely prepared) spells: Bull's Strength (Transmutation), Chain Lightning (Evocation), Crushing Despair (Enchantment), Dispel Magic (Abjuration), Explosive Runes (Abjuration), Evard's Spiked Tentacles of Forced Intrusion (probably Conjuration (Creation)), Feather Fall (Transmutation), Fireball (Evocation), Hold Person (Enchantment), Hold Portal (Abjuration), discount Invisibility Sphere (Illusion), Lightning Bolt (Evocation), Magic Missile (Evocation), Owl's Wisdom (Transmutation), Scorching Ray (Evocation), Sleep (Enchantment) Suggestion (Enchantment); also one of Analyze Dweomer or Identify (both Divination)
Spells mentioned in V's attempt to trade with Zz'dtri: Vampiric Touch (Necromancy), Time Stop (Transmutation), Meteor Swarm (Evocation), Wish (Universal)

So, if V is a specialist, the banned schools are Conjuration and Necromancy, since Evard's Spiked Tentacles of Forced Intrusion's school must be speculated upon and Vampiric Touch was listed with a number of other spells that V almost certainly does not possess.

Concentration is no higher than +14, since V failed several times while pinned by a tanglefoot bag.
Can cast distintegrate twice per day, indicating level 11 with 22 (modified) Int or level 12 or higher, so has at most 6 skill points/level for most levels. Some are in Concentration and some are in Spellcraft.
Is a pointy-eared, purple-haired, ambiguously gendered elf.
Is Not Evil.
Intelligence at start of comic (or, more accurately, engagement with the non-SRD monster) is 18.
Does not have Still Spell feat.
Low Charisma.

Can't think of much else at the moment.

[Sothicus]

First post and what do I head for.. the geekiest of them all :)

Anyway... I found this in the f.a.q. on the website:

"Q: What are the character’s D&D stats? Will you ever create character sheets for us to see?


A: There are no hard-and-fast stats for the characters. I find that if I were to ever commit exact stats to paper, I would feel limited in what I could have these characters do in the future. For example, I might want to make a strip spoofing a particular feat, only to find that I didn’t give it to any of my characters. As a result, there will never be official game statistics for Roy, Elan, and the rest. As a rule of thumb, I tend to think of them as being around 7th-9th level or so; powerful enough to have a bunch of different storytelling options, weak enough that I can justify them running away from anything I throw at them."

So we know that Rich had the intention of making the characters mid-level. I think he underestimates their level a little but as he said, he doesn't want to limit himself.

However, I find doing this sort of thing fun.. so here's my take (note that I will update as I go back and review strips for content):

First, each character has levelled twice and each time at the same time, with the exception of Belkar whom had to add a bit of role-playing in order to catch up. Though this was before his level in Barbarian, we can guess that Belkar is suffering from exp loss of some sort. Anyway, because each character has levelled at the same time, it is reasonable to assume that they are roughly the same level, if not the exact same.

Here's what I've gleaned so far:

Roy - Fighter Level ?

Feats:
Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization - By his own admittance to having the feat

Power Attack, Cleave, Great Cleave - Bonus Wallpaper... cleaving through multiple zombies

Skills:
Climb - When climbing with the evil twin Grog
Handle Animal - Drives the wagons of gold
Ride - Admitted during beginning of side quest
Diplomacy - By regular talking with NPC's, etc

Ability scores:
Str - 16 This is a guess
Dex - 13 A guess, was reasonably nimble moving throught he goblin hordes
Con - 18 A guess, Has mentioned a couple of times that he has high hit points
Int - 15 A guess, Definately smart, but not as smart as V... was the burger to V's turkey with the mind flayer
Wis - 13 A guess, Reasonably wise but has issues, particularly when dealing with Elan
Cha - 15 A guess, Due to his ability to talke to NPC's as group spokesperson

Durkon - Cleric Level 11?

Feats:
Unknown, nothing used to suggest what kind he may possess.

Skills:
Knowledge (Religion) - Can talk about his God, though he doesn't know much about other Gods (like Loki, for example) not many ranks obviously

Ability scores:
Str - 16 This is a guess
Dex - 10 A guess, he's in plate armor, he doesn't need it
Con - 18 A guess, he's a dwarf
Int - 13 A guess, Bright enough, but more wise than smarts
Wis - 15 A guess, wise, able to observe divine intervention (or misinterput)
Cha - 13 A guess, He's a dwarf, generally not charismatic, though needed in order to turn undead

Haley - Rogue Level ?

Feats:
Point Black Shot, Precise Shot, Many Shot, Rapid Shot (Succubus fight)

Improved Initiative - A guess based on the chimera fight

Skills:
Spot
Listen
Search
Open Lock
Disable Device
(I think these are self evident)

Ability scores:
Str - 11 Nothing to show she is particularly strong
Dex - 18 A guess, based on the marvelous reflex saving throws
Con - 11 A guess
Int - 13 A guess, she's smart when it comes to economics
Wis - 11 A guess, she tends to look the other way at certain things which may cause her grief in the future
Cha - 15 A guess, she's wowed the males several times

Vaarsuvius - Wizard Level 11?

Feats:
Nothing which has jumped out at me yet

Skills:
Knowledge (Arcane)
Spellcraft

Ability scores:
Str - 10 Nothing to show he is particularly strong
Dex - 13 A guess, based on the fact that he is an elf
Con - 11 A guess
Int - 18 Admitted
Wis - 13 A guess, based on things he has said
Cha - 13 A guess, he's a bit aloof and doesn't play well with others but still an elf

Elan - Bard Level ?

Feats:
Nothing which has jumped out at me yet

Skills:
Ride - Admitted
Perform - Stringed instruments
Perform - Singing

Ability scores:
Str - 10 Nothing to show he is particularly strong
Dex - 15 A guess
Con - 11 A guess
Int - 8 I'm being generous here
Wis - 8 No seriously, generous
Cha - 18 Admitted by Haley

Belkar - Ranger Level ? / Barbarian Level 1

Feats:
Two-weapon fighting (from ranger)

Skills:
Ride (at least 1 rank from his Dautschound experience)
Jump (seen jumping at foes quite often)

Ability scores:
Str - 10 Nothing to show he is particularly strong
Dex - 15 A guess
Con - 11 A guess
Int - 12 He's smarter than the average halfling
Wis - 10 He's chaotic tendancies push him easily
Cha - 8 He barely gets along with anyone, let along NPC's

Again, I will update as I find evidence and clues... This is from the top of my head

[Adghar]

http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/yabb...num=1105422121

[Bjorm]

I would assume Belkar also had a few rogue levels since he likes to "stab" opponents :)

[Kish]

What does being a rogue have to do with stabbing opponents? The fact that Belkar's personality is pointed toward obsession with combat prowess is an argument against him having any levels of a class with less than fighter BAB. I suspect if any of the characters (except Belkar now) were multiclassed, they'd have mentioned it, as Belkar did when he took that barbarian level, and as Elan did when he nearly took levels of cleric and wizard.

"Another ranger level, then?" "I was thinking of multiclassing"--certainly seems to me to indicate Belkar is a single-classed ranger when he says that, and if he was part rogue, Elan's question would have probably been, "A level of ranger or of rogue this time?" with Belkar's response being, "I was thinking of adding a third class, actually."

[Devils_Advocate]

Note that when the group first goes up a level, Haley gains more sneak attack damage and V gets a new spell level. So they each go up to an odd level, probably 11. (If they are not at the same level, there is at least a 2 level difference between the two.) Belkar clearly states that he and Vaarsuvius are the same level, so it seems most likely that those three characters are all at level 12 now. I'm inclined to think that the whole party is the same level. The only real counter-evidence I see is Elan's bard song only giving a +1 bonus to damage instead of +2; and given that that happens in a strip about how players don't always figure such things correctly, I wouldn't go reading too much into that.

Since "The place for over-analysis..." is 19 pages long now, maybe we could continue that vein of discussion here, with some summaries of the findings from that thread? (I recommend looking at post #140 on page 10 for a particularly condensed analysis of a lot of the evidence.) And of course by "we", I mean "you".

::Goes back to lurking::

[Runolfr]

Vaarsuvius can cast Distintegrate twice in succession. Since we don't know of any specific magic item that Vaarsuvius has that would allow this (the Ring of Wizardry seems to affect L3 spells like Suggestion), and we have no indication that Vaarsuvius is a specialist, I think it's reasonable to conclude that Vaarsuvius is a Level 12 Wizard.

This would put the rest of the Order at Level 11-12.

[Runolfr]

I would assume Belkar also had a few rogue levels since he likes to "stab" opponents :)

The phrase "Sneak Attack!" has never been used in conjunction with any of Belkar's actions, as it has been used with Haley's.

[Bogardan_Mage]

Int - 15 A guess, Definately smart, but not as smart as V... was the burger to V's turkey with the mind flayer

Read the comic again. V was the burger, Roy was the turkey. "Why are you eating him? I am a wizard! A delectable 18 Intelligence right before you!"

[Penguin]

So...V is Junkfood for mindflayers...what can we make of that? :D

[Azamillan]

The Mind Flayers don't just look for Intelligence. They probably like some Wisdom, Charisma, and interesting life experiences as well. Maybe he saw V as having too much "excess" or "useless" knowledge, while Roy's brain had just the right kind of pragmatic viewpoint the Mind Flayer looking for.

[vrox]

Haley: Better Hide skill total than Belkar before entering the Dungeon of Dorukan (from the book).

Roy is established Lawful Good, Belkar is something evil (confirmed by the author as well as obvious from his actions), Elan is something good.

(This thread has quite a bit of overlap with The Place for Over-Analysis, doesn't it?)

As to Roy's "Lawful Goodness" Who would want to be Lawful Good?! Lame! Bwah ha ha ha ha! (no offense)

[Runolfr]

So...V is Junkfood for mindflayers...what can we make of that? :D

Probably that if you totalled Roy's Int, Wis, and Cha scores, you'd get a substantially higher number than the same total for Vaarsuvius.

[Runolfr]

Current Estimates:

Roy - Fighter 12 (Lawful Good)

Haley - Rogue 12 (Chaotic Good)

Belkar - Ranger 11 / Barbarian 1 (Chaotic Evil)

Vaarsuvius - Wizard 12 (Chaotic Good)
Int 18

Durkon - Cleric 12 (Lawful Good)

Elan - Bard 12 (Chaotic Good)
Cha 18

[Kish]

As to Roy's "Lawful Goodness" Who would want to be Lawful Good?! Lame! Bwah ha ha ha ha! (no offense)

The parenthetical comment clashes rather severely with the rest of the post and creates quite an incongruous result. :P

[Sylvius]

Current Estimates:

Roy - Fighter 12 (Lawful Good)

Haley - Rogue 12 (Chaotic Good)

Belkar - Ranger 11 / Barbarian 1 (Chaotic Evil)

Vaarsuvius - Wizard 12 (Chaotic Good)
Int 18

Durkon - Cleric 12 (Lawful Good)

Elan - Bard 12 (Chaotic Good)
Cha 18

Haley and Vaarsuvius have to be neutral - we know they're "Not Evil", but they were willing to discuss attacking the Paladin. I think we're looking at a Chaotic Neutral Haley, with a True Neutral or even Lawful Neutral Vaarsuvius (note V's obsession with fairness in comic 126).

Durkon also seems too level-headed to be Lawful Good - I'd guess more Neutral Good with Durkon.

[Kish]

"And bein' a dwarf is about doin' your duty, even when it makes you miserable. ESPECIALLY when it makes you miserable!...Yer duty as a dwarf is to go home and be with your husband." I can't see that being a non-Lawful character speaking.

[Saxov]

Durkon also seems too level-headed to be Lawful Good - I'd guess more Neutral Good with Durkon.

Given that the default Dwarven alignment is LG, and Thor is CG, that means that to be a cleric of Thor he must be either NG, CG or CN - where the chaotic aspect is atypical for a dwarf - and the party is somewhat stereotypical, I would go with NG..

[Lilly]

This strip seems to say otherwise as to Durkon being NG. It points to a very lawful Durkon.

"I stay here because it's my duty, and being a dwarf is about doing your duty, even if it makes you miserable. Espically if it makes you miserable." That sounds lawful to me.

Also I'm pretty sure the OotS Thor is not the Diety and Demigods Thor.

[JMFD]

Whoever did the skills posting; Elan has perform[Kaazoo] now ;)

[Saxov]

And looking at http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/Gian...otscript?SK=58 we might conclude that Belkar has a wisdom 10, since without owl's Wisdom he is not able to cast spells spells (There are no level 0 ranger spells, so a wis 11 is required to cast spells for a ranger) and with the +4 bonus he is able to cast CSW (a forth level spell for rangers, requiring Wis 14)

[Hzurr]

*sigh* I can't believe I'm doing this.

Roy - LG
Mika - LG
Durkan - LG/NG (under debate)
Elan - CG
Haley - CN (not set in stone, but the best guess)
V - LN (He's obviously neither good, nor evil, and he seems fairly lawful. TN is also a possibility)
Bakar - CE (definately not lawful. Evil is proven in the strips, and stated by the Giant)

So...yes, there you are. Oh, and I'd say lvl 11/12 is a good guess

[Sundog]

Haley and Vaarsuvius have to be neutral - we know they're "Not Evil", but they were willing to discuss attacking the Paladin.

I completely disagree. Why shouldn't good people attack a Paladin, if that Paladin is doing something they disagree with?

I've been in that situation. A Paladin was ordered to bring my character to justice, for destroying a temple (yes, I had done it, but I had a good reason).

The Paladin was (of course) Lawful Good. I was Chaotic Good. He captured me, tied me up and started taking me back. My character, knowing he would probably be executed at the end of the trip, slipped out of Her bonds, and cut the Paladin's throat while he was sleeping. I was able to argue that my killing of the Paladin was completely justified, given he wouldn't have stopped coming after me, and he intended me harm.

A good character doesn't have to kowtow to a Paladin's wishes. Hell, I would bet that there are probably Paladins on both sides of most wars, in the D&D universes - with different interpretations of which side is the good one.

[Kish]

And looking at http://www.giantitp.com/cgi-bin/Gian...otscript?SK=58 we might conclude that Belkar has a wisdom 10, since without owl's Wisdom he is not able to cast spells spells (There are no level 0 ranger spells, so a wis 11 is required to cast spells for a ranger) and with the +4 bonus he is able to cast CSW (a forth level spell for rangers, requiring Wis 14)

Except that looking at the way Belkar acts all the time, he certainly doesn't have a Wisdom anywhere near average.

I completely disagree. Why shouldn't good people attack a Paladin, if that Paladin is doing something they disagree with?

Because killing a good person is an evil act.

[Poeir]

Oh, no, not this again.