Six or Seven hours: Implications?

[CockroachTeaParty]

I claim no mastery over magic or the psionic arts. Apparently 8 hours is what the mortal mind requires to replenish spells / power points / infusions etc. for the day.

Now 8 hours is a pretty long time. I only really require seven hours of sleep or so to function well. Perhaps 8 hours is the recommended allotment of rest required from day to day, but what about when you're sleeping in a bedroll on the cold floor of some dungeon?

What would be the implications of lessening the amount of time needed to regain spells? Would six or seven hours of rest really make that much more of a difference than eight?

I ask because with every party member requiring at least a few hours of sleep, often times a party with properly overlapping watches can take 9 to 10 hours to properly rest. That's a hefty chunk of time, sapping almost half a day!

Perhaps I'm speaking out of inexperience, as my young spry body and mind can run on 6 to 7 hours of rest. Bleh.. now I'm just babbling.

So... what say you? Would this send the rules of the game spiraling into oblivion if I allowed casters only 6 or 7 hours of rest to replenish? I suppose with the 'bedroll of cheese' or whatever it is that lets you get 8 hours' worth of rest in an hour, this question is pointless. But some of us don't have that book, and my character's got next watch, and he's getting antsy.

[Starsinger]

You need 8 hours of rest not sleep. The difference being, as long as you're just lounging around by the fire, keeping watch, it won't disrupt spell prep. You just can't do anything strenuous or distracting.

[Yechezkiel]

Most prepared casters (Wizards, Clerics) need an additional hour on top of those 8 to prepare/pray/etc.

I don't suggest messing with it.

[CockroachTeaParty]

You need 8 hours of rest not sleep. The difference being, as long as you're just lounging around by the fire, keeping watch, it won't disrupt spell prep. You just can't do anything strenuous or distracting.

Your avatar makes me feel special, wanted, and welcome.

Yeah... I suppose that makes sense. And a rope trick usually takes the inconvenience out of resting. But why 8 hours? Why was this the magic number?

[ClericofPhwarrr]

But why 8 hours? Why was this the magic number?

WotC: "And to regain spells, casters have to rest for... hmmm... roll 2d4 and that'll be the number of hours."

[Solo]

8 is a lucky number in Chinese, but I'm not sure that's the answer you're looking for.

[Stephen_E]

8 hours is the traditional time required for humans to sleep/rest every day.

Now I know different people need different amounts of sleep (although it should be noted that researchers to seem to be finding that pretty much everyone does need that 8 hours rest to maintain peak performance. You may think you're fine, but you probably aren't) but if as a game desiner you decide that spell casters need a nights rest to trcover their spells, then 8 hours is the figure that leaps to mind. And yes they had to give a time because they decreed elves didn't need to sleep.

If you want to make it 7 or 6 hours it wouldn't really make much difference, but if you go down to 2 hours it probably would.

Stephen

[bugsysservant]

If you are all that concerned, have the caster make a will save of 8+2 for each hour they didn't sleep, adding the dc-8 from the previous day if they didn't get eight hours of sleep. If they fail, they can't prepare spells. Or maybe they lose their highest level spells, and the next lowest level for each two they fail by. Or maybe you could make it a fort. save.

Anyway, the reason they chose eight hours is because that is the average people need. If they let people choose from a range, or determined it randomly, people would exploit roleplaying for mechanical bonuses, or could get screwed by a die roll at first level (OK, everyone can get on fine with five hours except Gary over there who needs 12)

[Starsinger]

Your avatar makes me feel special, wanted, and welcome.

Flea the Magician's captivating beauty tends to make people feel that way.

[Anxe]

I think the rules are accurate in that you don't function at the top of your ability if you lose sleep. You become fatigued. All your spells that you prepare without full rest have -2 to their DCs or other things that they do.

[TheOOB]

Eight hours in the suggested amount of time for a human to rest to gain the maximum amount of energy possible, beings preparing spells would be taxing, it makes sense that you must be fully rested in order to perform the complex rituals.

Keep in mind that the 8 hours is only an arcane things, divine casters get their spells at a certain time of day, regardless of how much rest they get(though I still think it takes like 15 minutes to prepare their spells.).

[Rockphed]

Eight hours in the suggested amount of time for a human to rest to gain the maximum amount of energy possible, beings preparing spells would be taxing, it makes sense that you must be fully rested in order to perform the complex rituals.

Keep in mind that the 8 hours is only an arcane things, divine casters get their spells at a certain time of day, regardless of how much rest they get(though I still think it takes like 15 minutes to prepare their spells.).

Divine Casters get spells at a certain time of day(as determined by their theology) but they still can't recharge spells that they used in the last 8 hours, so it is best to prepare spells at the beginning of the day, right after 8 hours of rest, but they do not need to rest for the full 8 hours.

[Fawsto]

You hit the famous Achiles Heel of all casters with exception of the Warlock.

This is why casters are rather underpower in the lower levels and allmighty gods on higher levels. Why? Most class features that do less damage and last less time aren't compared to the 5-6 desintegrates in a row.

I don't recomend messing with it, since you would have to balance a few things right after.

[Yechezkiel]

Keep in mind that the 8 hours is only an arcane things, divine casters get their spells at a certain time of day, regardless of how much rest they get(though I still think it takes like 15 minutes to prepare their spells.).

Except for Favored Souls?

It is 1 full hour for Clerics at the right time. They can't leave slots open for later preparation, like Wizards.

"Clerics meditate or pray for their spells. Each cleric must choose a time at which he must spend 1 hour each day in quiet contemplation or supplication to regain his daily allotment of spells. Time spent resting has no effect on whether a cleric can prepare spells. A cleric may prepare and cast any spell on the cleric spell list, provided that he can cast spells of that level, but he must choose which spells to prepare during his daily meditation."

[Elana]

but all spells cast within the last 8 hours, do count against your dayly allotment of spells.

A nice precaution to avoid casters to get twice their normal spell count within an hour.



Oh and 8 hours, just happen to be a nice number like 1/3rd of a day.

(btw healthy humans do get 8 hours of sleep, but not neccesarily in a row. There are those who sleep 4 hours at night, and later sleep for a minute several times during the day, without ever noticing it)

[Xuincherguixe]

Flea is unnerving. You'll understand why if you do some googling.

[ZeroNumerous]

Flea the Magician's captivating beauty tends to make people feel that way.

It's a Trap.

Kidding aside. It's a man. Seriously. It is. Chrono Trigger confirms that Flea is male, despite looking very much like a woman.

Other than that.. I don't see a problem since 6+1/7+1 rounds out to a nice even 8 anyway.

[Renx]

How about if you have a Ring of Sustenance, a bargain for about 2k gold that reduces your need for sleep to 2 hours a day and food needs to almost nothing?

And you still have to rest/sleep for 8 hours? Yes. The 8-hour need has nothing to do with actual rest or sleep (as all races have the exact same, which is ridiculous) but is a balance tool. Personally, if a player wanted to make some sort of a deal, I'd allow it... then create an order of wizards with 3-hour resting periods coming at them in shifts.

And anyway, would you really want a complex system determining how long you need to rest to get your spells back?

...never mind, I forgot where I was asking ;)

[horseboy]

IIRC, Used to it depended on your highest level spell you had to prepare. For instance, to prepare a 9th level spell you had to rest 12 hours. 8 is not bad by comparison.

[Citizen Joe]

I always figured that casters should get a free pass on watches. Then everyone just makes sure they get really good sleep when they are back in town. But then again, I think that casters should also carry some of the spare gear since they aren't weighted down by armour.

[Leon]

I always figured that casters should get a free pass on watches. Then everyone just makes sure they get really good sleep when they are back in town. But then again, I think that casters should also carry some of the spare gear since they aren't weighted down by armour.

most surefire way ive found to avoid watch is to play a PC of Elven descent in a Dark Sun game - no body trusted me to be the one alone with the task at night unless there were multiple people on duty

With the current DS Campagain Druid and Cleric use Diplomancy atm to get extra prep time for spells in (ie a ride on the Mekaliot for a hour)

[Starsinger]

It's a Trap.

Kidding aside. It's a man. Seriously. It is. Chrono Trigger confirms that Flea is male, despite looking very much like a woman.

Other than that.. I don't see a problem since 6+1/7+1 rounds out to a nice even 8 anyway.

I know very well that he's a man..

[Ravyn]

...and there's always just pointing the party in the direction of the Elven Meditation teamwork benefit from the PHBII, anyway, if you have the appropriate resources and qualifications.

[Matthew]

IIRC, Used to it depended on your highest level spell you had to prepare. For instance, to prepare a 9th level spell you had to rest 12 hours. 8 is not bad by comparison.

Not sure about D&D, but in AD&D it was 'a restful night's sleep' in addition to 10 minutes of study per Spell Level per Spell memorised. So, 90 Minutes to memorise one Level Nine Spell.

[ZebulonCrispi]

I'm going to be starting a d20 modern campaign soon, that takes place on a college campus. Accordingly, the rest requirement is being dropped to 6 hours. College students never sleep.

[Behold_the_Void]

I'm going to be starting a d20 modern campaign soon, that takes place on a college campus. Accordingly, the rest requirement is being dropped to 6 hours. College students never sleep.

Well, that and I also want to make the schedule crunch you'll be getting from fighting the shadow all night in addition to studying, classes, and maybe working a bit less harsh

[ZebulonCrispi]

Well, that and I also want to make the schedule crunch you'll be getting from fighting the shadow all night in addition to studying, classes, and maybe working a bit less harsh

Don't forget the AWESOME ROCK CONCERTS my character will be performing at!

Man, I'm not gonna have a lot of free time.

[Jack Mann]

I know very well that he's a man..

I'm pretty sure Zero was saying that for Cockroach's benefit.

[ZeroNumerous]

I'm pretty sure Zero was saying that for Cockroach's benefit.

I was.

College D&D: Try about 4 hours. I know I didn't get nearly that much.

[Inyssius Tor]

College D&D: Try about 4 hours. I know I didn't get nearly that much.

And do you think that you could reshape the laws of physics after such little rest?