Ducktales (2017)

[Reddish Mage]

Which is why I keep mentioning inconsistent characterization. Seriously, all off these people keep bouncing around, except Webby, who is almost entirely 'Action Girl desperate to be accepted'.

I think there is consistent characterization, and that Scrooge is much more a softy. Beakley too. Other than that, Dewey is the brave (foolhardy) adventurous one, Louie is greedy, lazy, clever, Huey is honest, diligent, rational. Webby is adventurous and awkward.

Definitely a return to classic form, with Scrooge so cheap he steals free food from a buffet and action adventure where the only reason given or needed for "How did you do THAT?" was 'Scrooge McDuck'.

They probably went too far making Goldie unlikable (my youngest is a soppy romantic and hates her), and my science-trained brain cannot mesh the heat needed for molten gold, the existence of any ice and people walking around without noticing the temperature.

So, as cartoons go, very good. Hopefully Scrooge realizes he's moved beyond the user-girlfriend because he has a real family that doesn't specialize in betrayal. But it's a kids show and she's a ready source of conflict.

I think Goldie is far too one-dimensional. I would have liked seeing some shades of grey and "what are her true feelings" then seeing her consistently betray Scrooge again and again. I don't see any signs of genuine love from her like, say, they do with Lena. That it's a kid show is no excuse. They went with something complex with Lena and they can do it with Goldie.

As far as the science goes...you really need to check that sort of thing before watching Ducktales. People are in these forums often get offended by disregarding physics (see my signature) and tend to be extraordinary selective about what they critique. In this case, its temperature not being a thing, when the Ducktales crew have been awfully reliant, and a Lake of Molten gold is a problem...for being around snow and not, say, that its a LAKE OF MOLTEN GOLD.

They throw something in the very end of the episode that I didn't get by the way. What was that stone talisman about?

[brionl]

They throw something in the very end of the episode that I didn't get by the way. What was that stone talisman about?

Probably something that's going to come up the next time he runs into Goldie. I'm assuming it's something from one of their previous adventures.

But we finally get an explanation of how Scrooge was born over 150 years ago, and isn't dead. Frozen in a glacier for 5 years, plus an unspecified period trapped in a timeless demon dimension. I was wondering if they were every going to address that.

[Rogar Demonblud]

As far as the science goes...you really need to check that sort of thing before watching Ducktales. People are in these forums often get offended by disregarding physics (see my signature) and tend to be extraordinary selective about what they critique. In this case, its temperature not being a thing, when the Ducktales crew have been awfully reliant, and a Lake of Molten gold is a problem...for being around snow and not, say, that its a LAKE OF MOLTEN GOLD.

Thing is, a lake of molten gold isn't that unheard of. In fact, that's a necessary step to its being concentrated enough to be worth mining. The problem is, it needs either a meteor strike or active volcanism to pull off.

If I was going to get real snarky, I'd point out they don't need the map because it's apparently a straight line with no side tunnels, just the occasional choke point. And they've already been there, anyway.

They throw something in the very end of the episode that I didn't get by the way. What was that stone talisman about?

It looks like the one that lead them to the temple in the series premiere of the original DuckTales cartoon.

[Jeivar]

But we finally get an explanation of how Scrooge was born over 150 years ago, and isn't dead. Frozen in a glacier for 5 years, plus an unspecified period trapped in a timeless demon dimension. I was wondering if they were every going to address that.

It does leave wide open the question of how Donald and Della's mother was able to have children that aren't even into middle age yet. You know, what with her being Scrooge's sister, and maybe around twenty years younger than him at the most.

As for Goldie... not a fan. I have never liked these kinds of smug rogue characters that consistently backstab, mistreat and steal and just get away with it because they're just that charming.

[Reddish Mage]

It does leave wide open the question of how Donald and Della's mother was able to have children that aren't even into middle age yet. You know, what with her being Scrooge's sister, and maybe around twenty years younger than him at the most.

As for Goldie... not a fan. I have never liked these kinds of smug rogue characters that consistently backstab, mistreat and steal and just get away with it because they're just that charming.

I don’t think you are going to find a age-realistic Duck family tree that didn’t even make sense in the 1940’s and 50’s.

Now it’s 2018 and Scrooge is still born in the 19th century and Donald is still his nephew and his grand-nephews are only just that.

Goldie is Goldie the backstabber. It’s her character so I can’t fault that. I just don’t like that they try to hint at redeemability at the same time make her absolutely predictable in her behavior.

It just makes Scrooge seem like a bigger softy (also notice he cares about her and not the molten gold she steals).

Probably something that's going to come up the next time he runs into Goldie. I'm assuming it's something from one of their previous adventures.

But we finally get an explanation of how Scrooge was born over 150 years ago, and isn't dead. Frozen in a glacier for 5 years, plus an unspecified period trapped in a timeless demon dimension. I was wondering if they were every going to address that.

I don’t think that’s meant to tell the full story. Scrooge is canonically over a hundred years old in the comics.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Maybe he found the Fountain of Youth at some point as well?

[Zmeoaice]

Has anyone here seen Legends of the Three Caballeros? It's a new show that's been released on Disney's streaming app in the Philippines, and has gotten barely any attention but I checked out some episodes and it's really good.

It reminds me of DuckTales in that it also focuses on fantastical adventures. However it is much more serialized (each episode more or less directly picking off from the last) and embraces the zany cartoon world.

[Rogar Demonblud]

From that description, it'll never show here. The format directly militates against the 'draw a number at random, show that episode' format we're stuck with.

[Ramza00]

Maybe he found the Fountain of Youth at some point as well?

That was more or less one of the conversations that Scrooge had with Goldie while they danced.



But if I understand the point Jeivar is making:

1) Donald and Della Duck are twins.
2) Della McDuck is the mother of the triplets Huey, Dewey, and Louie. (They are the same age but Heuy is the oldest of the 3. The wiki says he is the oldest by 3 seconds and now I am thinking were they eggs or do they have live birth in Ducktales similar to most mammal species since the birds are anthropomorphized.)
3) Della Duck and Donald Duck are the niece and nephew of Scrooge McDuck, Hortense McDuck is Della and Donald's mother and Hortense is Scrooge Sister.
4) Jeivar is saying that something involving time manipulation or reversing of aging must have occured for Scrooge is over 100 years old and siblings are usually in humans less than 20 years apart in age.

But my response to Jeivar if I understand the arguement correctly is you are anthromorphizing the ducks in order to find a solution. Time manipulation, reversing of aging, etc is all possible. This could reset Scrooge's body, Hortense's body, or their mother's body Downy O'Drake, etc to make Scrooge and Hortense be siblings.



The picture on the wall is Scrooge's parents (Downy O'Drake and Fergus McDuck.)

But remember we are talking fiction and fictional species of birds that are anthromorphized. Perhaps these birds do not suffer menopause. Decline in fertility is common with all placenta mammals (mammals that give live birth and have a placenta) but only a dozen or so species actually suffer menopause such as Humans and a couple primates, certain species of whales and dolphins, elephants, plus a few other mammal species such as the opossum, the lab rat and lab mouse but not all the rats and mice species found in nature.

We can't just assume cartoon animals work with similar rules to real life animals, let alone real life humans, even if the cartoon animals stand up and have manipulable digits.

Personally I think Time Manipulation, Reversal of Aging, etc are more likely if the writers thought this through and created something, but perhaps it doesn't work this way, perhaps fictional Ducktale Ducks do not have menopause. Furthermore writting a story does not require you think through all the aspects of the story and create an internal system of logic where the system of logic feels "real" and is internally consistent. Stories can stand alone just by their nature of being told and thus being part of breath and exchange between other humans. Stories are not the map, nor are the territory, they are the thing that unites the map and the territory, aka the dash.

Let me quote some Neil Gaiman. The tale is separate from the map and separate from the territory.



The tale is a dream, it is a collective delusion, but delusions can inform and change the thing that is thinking about the delusion.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Correct me if my failing memory errs, but isn't Hortense supposed to be Scrooge's older sister?

[Calemyr]

I never read the comics, I'll admit, but I recall hearing that there was a theme of "you're only as old as you feel" to it. Never outright stated, mind, just demonstrated. Years don't really factor into it after a certain point. When Scrooge is being... well... Scrooge, it doesn't matter that he was already a well established veteran adventurer in 1896 (Yukon gold rush). He feels young so he acts young. When he's not being Scrooge, when he's sealing himself away in his mansion and not adventuring, he rather quickly begins to show his age - showing a feebleness and clumsiness he never displays at any other time.

Of course, that's just hearsay regarding the comics. Here, Scrooge outright says he spent some time stuck in a timeless dimension. Now whether this is meant to be a genuine explanation or simply two veteran rogues flirting on the dance floor, I don't want to say. It's definitely the latter to a large degree, but the former may play some role in it.

I gotta say, I liked Goldie. She strikes me as exactly the kind of girl Scrooge would fall for: every bit as charismatic, cunning, ambitious, and omni-competent as he is. The fact that she's a traitorous backstabber who always finds an angle to profit from at the expense of her allies and enemies alike is actually a point in her favor, here, as "safe" and "reliable" equate to "extremely tedious" in Scrooge's mind. I mean, he knowingly (and insistently) employs Launchpad in spite of his epic inability to pilot anything just for a little excitement. She keeps him on his toes, and every time they meet is always a mystery (what angle is she playing this time?). She may be a total slap in the face regarding Scrooge's "make it square" mantra, but she's his equal, a constant risk, and an eternal challenge. How could Scrooge resist?

[kglusing]

I gotta say, I liked Goldie. She strikes me as exactly the kind of girl Scrooge would fall for: every bit as charismatic, cunning, ambitious, and omni-competent as he is. The fact that she's a traitorous backstabber who always finds an angle to profit from at the expense of her allies and enemies alike is actually a point in her favor, here, as "safe" and "reliable" equate to "extremely tedious" in Scrooge's mind. I mean, he knowingly (and insistently) employs Launchpad in spite of his epic inability to pilot anything just for a little excitement. She keeps him on his toes, and every time they meet is always a mystery (what angle is she playing this time?). She may be a total slap in the face regarding Scrooge's "make it square" mantra, but she's his equal, a constant risk, and an eternal challenge. How could Scrooge resist?

Agreed on most accounts. For me (a long time fan), this show has really developed into its own, really cool way to addressing the story. It's become a great way for my son and I to bond because I loved the original and we're both loving this one.

[Reddish Mage]

Personally I think Time Manipulation, Reversal of Aging, etc are more likely if the writers thought this through and created something, but perhaps it doesn't work this way, perhaps fictional Ducktale Ducks do not have menopause. Furthermore writting a story does not require you think through all the aspects of the story and create an internal system of logic where the system of logic feels "real" and is internally consistent.

The tale is a dream, it is a collective delusion, but delusions can inform and change the thing that is thinking about the delusion.

At first you want to suggest there is a coherent logic somewhere, then you suggest the tale is a dream and delusion.

Which is it? If Ducktales is nothing but a dream it doesn’t have to have internal coherency. Scrooge’s age, origin, and even birthplace can change every episode. Donald’s parents can both be in their 40’s and Donald can be 30 and Scrooge be 100 and related.

It doesn’t need to be coherent. It’s background explanation to a series of loosely connected one-off episodes.

I think speculating about how the family tree hangs together and Scrooge’s real age is like wondering whether anthropomorphic ducks suffer from menopause. It has about as much relevance.

More relevant: female ducks have large breasts yet lay eggs in this universe. These contrary parts of the universe can actually be clearly pinned down. How do you explain?

[Ramza00]

At first you want to suggest there is a coherent logic somewhere, then you suggest the tale is a dream and delusion.

Which is it?

It is unknowable.

1) There can be an internal consistency that we can intuit based off our usual human experiences, our sentiments. Aka the experience is similar to what we as humans take in normally with our 5 senses, and thus we can imagine a similar experience for other things even though the other things are not ourselves.
2) There can be an internal consistency, with an internal logic, but the sentiments between us are different. Humans and Ducks are not the same, and thus the rules are different and we need to be skeptical of our sentiments and our unconscious internalized logic systems for the rules between these things are different.
3) There can be no internal consistency, each story is a one off and there is no canon and no timelines that tie things together. It is like how my dreams from one night are separate from my dreams of other night, one episode is its own story and a new episode may be connected or it may be entirely its own story taking place in a different ducktales continuity.

1 and 2 are very different, but once we establish 1 and 2 are possible it is a whole lot for most people to stomach that 1 or 3 is possible as well. It seems satisfying that there may be no consistency when we realize our "logic structures" of what is possible with generations and so on has inherent assumptions built into them.

Is it 1, 2, or 3? I do not know only the authors know this. I recommend you watch this Movie with Mykey video that talks about ambiguity and how ambiguity has some places with a story telling technique. (This video will talk about Sopranos and Inception.)



Human beings are creatures with pattern recognition abilities, it is one of our core things just like sentiments is one of our core things (sentiments being taking in information with the 5 senses followed by "spinning it" to create a general framework and memory of what is possible.) But sometimes we can't "solve things" and we must learn to accept the ambiguity. Note this can be a great thing for by accepting ambiguity allows critical thinking and allows us to access a different stage of consciousness what Daniel Kanheman calles system 2 in Thinking Fast and Slow.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thinking,_Fast_and_Slow

System 2 both allows us to do more complicated problem solving but it is also a system that recognizes some things are meaningless to try to solve and even if we find the questions interesting the answers are not important, and even if the answers are not important the questions can still remain important (not merely interesting.)

[Reddish Mage]

It is unknowable.

It is absolutely knowable whether Ducktales is going for a coherent history or is willing to just throw out contradictory information.

Likely they will go with the former. They might occasionally allow a contradiction or two to slip by accident or because they don't care about internal coherency so much as telling a good story each week.

As far as what you meant in a post above saying Ducktales is both internally coherent and a massively incoherent dream....after getting a response like you gave just gave me....

Well I just have to say I agree with the answer you gave above.

[Rogar Demonblud]

Day of the Only Child was a tad whiffy, as anthology episodes tend to be, but it tied together nicely in the end.

[brionl]

I'm guessing Doofus isn't going to be their buddy any time soon though.

[Rogar Demonblud]

He wasn't really their friend in the original series either. Just a fat kid they let hang around them sometimes because he was also in their Junior Woodchuck Troop.

[Rogar Demonblud]

And it looks like our next episode focuses on Mrs Beakley's time as a Secret Agent Duck.

I am completely unsurprised at her previous career. The woman can kick the tails of any five super-agents you name, alone or all together.

[huttj509]

Some writers and animators had a LOT of fun with that one. Loved the references to shows like Get Smart and the Avengers (not marvel, the spy show).

[Rogar Demonblud]

Thanks to the local weather and all the EAS bulletins, it took three tries to get the whole episode. Worth the wait.

Also, everyone noticed what was in Webby's pocket at the end, yes?

[brionl]

Somebody else brought this up on a different site, but signs point to these guys as the mysterious creators of the berry juice formula

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRTSZZgCUik

[Calemyr]

Somebody else brought this up on a different site, but signs point to these guys as the mysterious creators of the berry juice formula

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRTSZZgCUik

They were pretty blunt about the reference, actually. "My agents will bounce! Bouncing here and there and everywhere! High adventure Mass destruction that's beyond compare!"

It. Was. Glorious.

I mean, I got it the second I saw the silhouettes. And it all fit together. Medieval times, alchemy, the "Great Book".... then they replicated the sound effects and the animations. Honestly, Gummy Bears was a stupid show even back then, but to see it represented so well just kept me chuckling. It takes some real skill to take something so ludicrous and stupid and play it completely straight and still have it come out as awesome.

[Sprütche]

It was a really nice tie-in, much better than making Darkwing a tv hero.

I was surprised the juice gave the ducks jumping powers. I expected them to get super strenght like the humans did in the old show, but it's probably better this way. Cool sound effects.

Also, more backstory for Scrooge. Like in the Neverest episode we are shown he became the seasoned adventurer rather late after he got his billions.

[brionl]

They were pretty blunt about the reference, actually. "My agents will bounce! Bouncing here and there and everywhere! High adventure Mass destruction that's beyond compare!"

It. Was. Glorious.

I mean, I got it the second I saw the silhouettes. And it all fit together. Medieval times, alchemy, the "Great Book".... then they replicated the sound effects and the animations. Honestly, Gummy Bears was a stupid show even back then, but to see it represented so well just kept me chuckling. It takes some real skill to take something so ludicrous and stupid and play it completely straight and still have it come out as awesome.

I knew that it existed, but I never watched it back then. Having garnered the impression that it was gawd-awful dreck on the order of Captain Planet or (the original) My Little Pony. Those were dark days indeed for kids TV.

[Calemyr]

I knew that it existed, but I never watched it back then. Having garnered the impression that it was gawd-awful dreck on the order of Captain Planet or (the original) My Little Pony. Those were dark days indeed for kids TV.

Eh. It wasn't insulting or insipid like that stuff. Just very innocent and not very engaging. Teddy bears fighting an inept knight over the ability to bounce around like a 5 year old hyped up on... well... gummy bears. Harmless sound and motion to plunk kids in front of to shut them up for half an hour kind of thing. And, yeah, it would be a few years before DuckTales came on the scene, setting the stage for a parade of clever (if still shamelessly cheesy) shows that would follow.

[Rogar Demonblud]

It still is fairly hard to grasp just how much "The Disney Afternoon" changed the game for entertaining kids. I half suspect part of the reason why so many of us have strong positive associations with DuckTales, Talespin, Darkwing etc is the garbage they largely replaced.

[Zmeoaice]

Look who made a cameo in the Three Caballeros Show.

[Strigon]

Also, more backstory for Scrooge. Like in the Neverest episode we are shown he became the seasoned adventurer rather late after he got his billions.

Wasn't it after he made his first million?

[Rogar Demonblud]

That's when he went up Neverrest--75 years ago. Apparently, he was active 50 years before that (according to the White Plains episode). Which hints he didn't make his first million until WW2 (or the Duck-verse equivalent).